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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The Encyclopedia/ D'Adamo Library  ›  Candida spit test/Candida detoxing - II
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miltoncat
Saturday, July 9, 2005, 4:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I am on a candida cleanse, directed by my herbalist (Para-Gone). Has anyone else done something like this, and how did you feel afterward?
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hokouri
Saturday, July 9, 2005, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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are you sure you're on para-gone?  I thought there was one that was just for candida by the same company... anyways i did the paragone thing and i didn't really notice anything, for the first couple days i was a little more tired than usual, which may have been die-off but who knows
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daisymay
Saturday, July 9, 2005, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Idaho, USA
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If you can find a doctor who will prescribe it, I had good sucess with Diflucan (Fluconazole) although I had to start with an eighth of a tablet and gradually build up to a normal dose.


esFP
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CarolineC
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 2:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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sorry Daisy.....i didn't use either of those products..

I did  choose to  do it naturally without Diflucan and I didn't have parasites....I do think there are some  people that used the Diflucan and  then  used supplements, hopefully they will pop  in and post.
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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miltoncat
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 2:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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It's definitely Para-Gone. It takes care of candida and parasites. I've been on a lot of medications, including the Pill, for years. I've had numerous ear infections that were candida... doctors said it looked like I had lost a Q-tip cotton in my ear. I am taking Red Clover diluted in water to counteract the "die-off" symptoms.
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debs
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 7:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
red clover.thats a new one on me.do you feel its working?what were your die off symptoms?


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miltoncat
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 7:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Current die-off symptoms are aching, mainly. My hips ached last night. On a prior cleanse (a chinese herb combo) I had fierce die-off reactions... lightheaded, spacey, aching and generally feeling horrible.

The Para-Gone seems to be doing much better for me.

The red clover helps. I take 2 tbsp to 1 quart of water and drink it throughout the day. My herbalist wants me to do this every day for a week. The taste isn't too great but it's not awful. I am also taking milk thistle.

Apparently I am more toxic than either of us realized!
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CarolineC
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 8:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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Quoted from miltoncat
Current die-off symptoms are aching, mainly. My hips ached last night. On a prior cleanse (a chinese herb combo) I had fierce die-off reactions... lightheaded, spacey, aching and generally feeling horrible.

The Para-Gone seems to be doing much better for me.

The red clover helps. I take 2 tbsp to 1 quart of water and drink it throughout the day. My herbalist wants me to do this every day for a week. The taste isn't too great but it's not awful. I am also taking milk thistle.

Apparently I am more toxic than either of us realized!


Cat,

I just thought of something, not sure if it would help...but there is a red clover  tea. Not sure what it taste like. Here is a link that talks about it..but I have seen it time and time  again at the HFS and Whole Foods http://www.vitaminwarehouse.com/shop/detail.cfm/sku/29579#Ingredients. I think I was thinking maybe you could add a little lemon to it and it might be better

I restarted  the Candex yesterday...(I was without it for a week and half) and BANG.. here comes the die off symptoms again. this morning finger  joints are painful and tongue is not feeling so hot either.  It kinda  feels like a bad case of PMS.
Just remember....Day by day we are winning the  battle.  Did anyone see War of the Worlds yet. I am not a Tom Cruise fan, won't even go there, but I do  love the little  girl Dakota Fanning (sp?)  I decided while watching it , which I did BTE 2/3 of it by peeking thru my fingers. The aliens" reminded me of Candida with all its tenticles. BUT they did win, just was a hell of a battle!
Caroline



Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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debs
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 8:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
hi caroline i think it was your thread i was looking for.about the candex.is that the one which kills the candida & takes it out at same time?how much is it etc?where can i get it here?thanks


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miltoncat
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 8:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CarolineC


Cat,

I just thought of something, not sure if it would help...but there is a red clover  tea. Not sure what it taste like. Here is a link that talks about it..but I have seen it time and time  again at the HFS and Whole Foods http://www.vitaminwarehouse.com/shop/detail.cfm/sku/29579#Ingredients. I think I was thinking maybe you could add a little lemon to it and it might be better

I restarted  the Candex yesterday...(I was without it for a week and half) and BANG.. here comes the die off symptoms again. this morning finger  joints are painful and tongue is not feeling so hot either.  It kinda  feels like a bad case of PMS.
Just remember....Day by day we are winning the  battle.  Did anyone see War of the Worlds yet. I am not a Tom Cruise fan, won't even go there, but I do  love the little  girl Dakota Fanning (sp?)  I decided while watching it , which I did BTE 2/3 of it by peeking thru my fingers. The aliens" reminded me of Candida with all its tenticles. BUT they did win, just was a hell of a battle!
Caroline




I'll look into the tea, but will probably stick with what I have since I paid for it and all. Lemon is a good idea.

Hah, candida like aliens! It grosses me out to think I'm carrying live candida along with the gross dead candida. I assume the candida carcasses get taken out through normal elimination?
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debs
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
i'm not sure they all get eliminated.someone mentioned the live candida feed off the dead candida.like little cannibals.yuk


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CarolineC
Sunday, July 10, 2005, 11:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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Quoted from debs
i'm not sure they all get eliminated.someone mentioned the live candida feed off the dead candida.like little cannibals.yuk



yep, they sure  do! Desparate Candida do  desparate things to survive! now isn't that a pleasent thought!
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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daisymay
Monday, July 11, 2005, 1:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've done the spit test twice now after reading about it the other day.  No candida.  Something's still a problem.  I'm thinking it's the virus again that my AK keeps finding.  Some type of influenza I think.  So any of you suffer from a viral infection?  Sometimes I take Oregon Grape Root and Olive Leaf Extract.  It does seem that the symptoms are less severe.  But they're nothing like the symptoms of the flu.  It's a kind of prickly feeling inside of me.  Just a strange sensation that I finally recognize as the virus acting up again.  It completely stops my digestion.  My hands used to dry right up and crack and bleed acrossed my knuckles as well and it felt as if the lining inside of my skull was doing the same thing.  Ouch!


esFP
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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 5:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
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Location: Kahuku, HI
WOW, I feel like I am back in the trench's again. I was out of this product I have using at this  point to combat  the Candida...any doubts that this stuff is powerful are gone. I was out of it for about a week. I had found a website that i could get it in larger amounts for  a very inexpensive price. So, I was waiting for my order. and only taking the "extra" supplements during that time. Gosh, I felt  really great!  What a smoke screen that was. I recieved my order  late last week and started taking it again.. BANG, I feel like I have been hit by a "2 X 4 "!  I have had so much die off onmy tongue that I am even digusting myself  out,  constipation is fighting to come back, my joints are a mess, disoriented, fuzzy vision..I can see it in my  urine etc etc.. I am really not myself. so,  the combination of suplements and this product  are powerful! So, if I make less sense than normal forgive me. that  along with  a REALLY stressful time  at  the gym I manage and I really  fill like a nutcase!
Caroline
p.s.did  any of the successful Candida people, ever feellike they  were in the middle of that movie with Bill Murray "Groundhog Day"? that about sums it up.


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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suzedgar
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 3:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Caroline,
I have been taking Dr. D's UDA Plus along with Caprylic acid, grapefruit seed and probiotcs. I feel so so tired. I am finding it really hard to work out in the gym. Is this the yeast dying? I am exhausted.  This has only happened since I added the UDA Plus.
Any thoughts? I have been drinking a cup of 'dieters tea' each night and taking magnesium/calcium powder so constipation is not an issue at all. I also take vitamin C powder which helps that alot
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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 3:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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Quoted from suzedgar
Caroline,
I have been taking Dr. D's UDA Plus along with Caprylic acid, grapefruit seed and probiotcs. I feel so so tired. I am finding it really hard to work out in the gym. Is this the yeast dying? I am exhausted.  This has only happened since I added the UDA Plus.
Any thoughts? I have been drinking a cup of 'dieters tea' each night and taking magnesium/calcium powder so constipation is not an issue at all. I also take vitamin C powder which helps that alot


It really sounds like it to me, I also am feeling fatigue. Are you getting enough protein? that is really such a key to alot of die off symptoms. also, you will find that the  sie off symptoms will change day by day...it just goes to prove there is a three  ring  circus going on inside us....there is only one way to go with this and that is  forward!
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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Don
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 3:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Caroline,  Are you talking about taking Candex again?  If so, I thought it wasn't supposed to cause die off symptoms.  Has it always caused you problems when you first start taking it, like what you are experiencing now?

Just curious.  I am trying to decide if I want to try Candex or not or what other approach to try.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 4:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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Don,

I'm not sure. I do know that the Pure Essence Labs, which manufactures Candex, it does say no die off  symptoms. But I am taking some other supplements with it. During the week or soI was out of the Candex and just using the supplements, the Candida seems  was just laying there not responding at all, once I started taking the Candex again along with it, it appeared the yeast started to put on the battle gear. and I am defifnitely having die off  symptoms. annoying as itis at this point, I  atleast know something is happening.  when I spoke to a representative  at Pure Essence labs, and she was a neuropathic practiioner, she agreed it was  die off.
Frankly, I am not sure if there is an easy answer of what to take for Candida, but I do know our  bodies after a while stop  responding to  different  treatments. almost as if the yeast becomes immune to the products being used and you  have to shift around. At thispoint I know thisis  kicking  butt, which the yeast so I  am going to keep taking it. IF yu decide to take it, I found a website that sells Candex much cheaper and it is reputable. Hope this helps
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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debs
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
could you let me know which website that is please?


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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 5:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
Gender: Female
Location: Kahuku, HI
Quoted from debs
could you let me know which website that is please?


http://www.pureessencelabs.com/

there yo go...wait,  did you mean the one I purchased the Candex cheaper?
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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Bethysue
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 6:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Caroline,
Could all the sugary junk I ate be why I got multiple ear infections over a 4-6month span????

What are your thoughts...(as I cheat and eat my 3rd milky way minature...stress....isn't it great .)

De-stressing and wondering,
Bethysue


The ONLY place you will find success before work is in the dictionary.-Mary B. Smith
Happy to Be in Love with and married to another A +
Avery is my Awesome little A!
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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
Gender: Female
Location: Kahuku, HI
Ahh Bettysue... you are truly a girl after my  own heart.  yep, that is the probable  cause of those  ears hurting!

and I know the stress...I know mine would go away if I walked into  work today and fired one and had any decent applicants.  but  do I know the Milky Way routine. Stress and Candida are sick little "sisters" and the best of  friends. Because think about it. when your dealing with Candida, your not  on the top of your game...which makes you  fatigued. any stress  that comes along, gets bigger than life...and the  circle goes on and on and on.. thus enters our Friend EXERCISE!  and its so important to look at exercise as just that a friend to our bodies! Instead of a drudgery, which we  feel when we are fatigued, see the cycle go on and on?
Go throw away the rest of the 2.99 bag of Milky Way's
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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debs
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
& do a spit test in the morning to remind yourself


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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 7:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
Gender: Female
Location: Kahuku, HI
Quoted from debs
& do a spit test in the morning to remind yourself


and yeah what Debs said too!!
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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smrios78
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 8:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Unfortunately, there are more diet issues with candida.  If you are going to "starve" it out of your system, you can consume, no suger or dairy, either.  When you crave those foods, it's really those little candidas asking to be fed.  Yuk. What is this spit test that you speak of, and where does one obtain it?
Stacey
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debs
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 8:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
first thing in the morning before you have anything to eat or drink spit into a glass of filtered water,wait anywhere between 0-60 mins if your spit just floats you're ok but if it grows tendrils you got candida


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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 9:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
Gender: Female
Location: Kahuku, HI
Quoted from smrios78
Unfortunately, there are more diet issues with candida.  If you are going to "starve" it out of your system, you can consume, no suger or dairy, either.  When you crave those foods, it's really those little candidas asking to be fed.  Yuk. What is this spit test that you speak of, and where does one obtain it?
Stacey


Stacey,

The people on the board who have Candida are following the "Candida Diet" except for when   they slip....The  O  BTD is very similar to the Candida Diet except for a few changes.  
You  should have everything  you will need for the spit test at home already . Hopefully you have some  bottled or filtered water.
When you first  rise in the morning, before you take a drink or brush your teeth, you spit into  the glass (make sure you can see thru it) of water. Immediatley if your case of Candida is fairly serious, you will see what looks like tendrils start forming in the glass from your spit. I think they look like jellyfish tendrils. the more you have the longer they are the worst the case. You check it every 5 minutes for about 30 minutes. although I have found the results are instant one way or the other. Spit ,if healthy, will just dissolve, since it is just water with either healthy or unhealthy cells in it. If that happens you do not have  Candida.  There are also differnt test that can be run, but in my opinion this one is the most reliable and certainly cheap. Just make sure it is first think in the morning before you do anything else.
Depending on  how long you have had  the Candida, is how long it takes to get  rid of it. I for instance have had it I am sure  since childhood, as I lived on Tetracyline.
and yes, sugar and dairy are a few things you must remive from your diet, but the list is much larger than that. Besides the list, you should never eat leftover that are older than 24 hours. If you would like the  food list, PM me and I will be happy to send you two sites for the list.
Hope this explains the spit test.


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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Don
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 9:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
Gender: Male
Location: North Alabama
Age: 58
Caroline, What is the link to your source of Candex?


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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CarolineC
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 9:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
Posts: 633
Gender: Female
Location: Kahuku, HI
Quoted from CarolineC


http://www.pureessencelabs.com/

there yo go...wait,  did you mean the one I purchased the Candex cheaper?
Caroline


Don,
I wasn't  sure which site you wanted, so in the quote above is the website for the manufacture and here is the site that I got my last batch at. It figured out that I  was able to get  double the amount for the price in the HFS.
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/s.....x&intsource=main

Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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Don
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 10:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
Posts: 7,189
Gender: Male
Location: North Alabama
Age: 58
There are several online stores that sell the 120 capsule Candex product for $38.99.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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kent
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 10:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from smrios78
What is this spit test that you speak of, and where does one obtain it?
Stacey


Basically: One performs the spit test by spitting into a glass of water immediately upon rising in the morning. You observe the spit for half an hour or so.

If the spit does anything other than remain floating in a blob on the water surface the test indicates that you have Candida (Sinks to the bottom, breaks up into specks that float beneath the surface of the water, develops strings descending in the water from the spit, etc.).

If the spit remains floating without forming strings, etc. in the water, you do NOT have Candida.

More info and image at:

http://www.candida-yeast-problems.com/spittest.html
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Bethysue
Friday, July 15, 2005, 10:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Okay, I did this spit test....At first I had tendrils hand off my salvia then about 10-20min. later most of them broke off and floated towards the bottom. based on what everyone has told me and I have read, I HAVE CANAIDA...(sp) So what do I do now? I can't afford to buy a supplement or anything like that, trust me money is tight. But this was a not really a surprise. Help!


Bethysue


P.S. I threw away the milky way bag


The ONLY place you will find success before work is in the dictionary.-Mary B. Smith
Happy to Be in Love with and married to another A +
Avery is my Awesome little A!
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yaman
Friday, July 15, 2005, 11:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Hello Bettysue,

I recommend you to go and read the Candida thread:

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=encloplib,m=1116093883,s=all

There is quite a lot of information there. There seems to be some clues on how to refine the BTD accordingly, also links to food lists for candida. I believe you can prepare your own low cost road map based on the information there.

Good luck,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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CarolineC
Friday, July 15, 2005, 2:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 8 years, lost 150 lbs!
Sam Dan
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Bettysue,

I posted information on the other  thread called "Tired  after Milky Ways.. opps I mean Candy".  
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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cyn
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 1:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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About Candex - I know the company says it doesn't cause die off, but it seems to me like it actually causes more than alot of other products.  But you're right Caroline, it does make you feel like it's fighting the candida.    
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CarolineC
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 2:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cyn
About Candex - I know the company says it doesn't cause die off, but it seems to me like it actually causes more than alot of other products.  But you're right Caroline, it does make you feel like it's fighting the candida.    


I have to agree with you on this...before I take the dose in the morning, I can have a totally clear tongue, then 1/2 hour, it is full of die off.  It definately does the  job.
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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debs
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 5:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
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i'm taking caprylic acid.how many a day should i be taking for candida? they're called Biocare caprylic acid 680


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yaman
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 6:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Debs,

The Yeast/Fungus protocol recommends two capsules twice a day away from the meals.

cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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debs
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 6:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

if at first you don't succed try & try again.
Sam Dan
Posts: 853
ah thanks yaman i'll have to start upping it then(oh ooh!)i had been taking my morning 1 after breakfast.now to start taaking it with hot lemon.Thanks Yaman


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Victoria
Tuesday, July 26, 2005, 10:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just noticed this thread, and I'm glad to find it since I missed that last long discussion on candida.
Caroline, I'm happy to see you reporting on an enzyme-based therapy as an alternative to the herbs and other other ingredients that kill the candida.  It makes sense to me that the enzymes would be an extremely low side effect (comparatively speaking) and very effective way to manage yeast overgrowth.

I have taken a product called Candidase by a company called Enzymedica.  It works quite well, but it also contains protein digesting enzymes in addition to the cellulase type enzymes.  Candex does not recommend taking the Protease because they say it digests the beneficial probiotics in addition to the candida.  For this reason, I am interested in trying the Candex.  Thanks for this tip.

I believe that I've heard that a yeast overgrowth can weigh in the POUNDS of material in the body.  That can really be a lot of organisms to process during the die-off.  Once, when I was taking one of the herbal programs for Candida, I literally felt like I was back on chemo again....I felt so bad from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet.  The enzymes I have tried are much more gentle.  



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Let me not pass you by in quest
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cyn
Wednesday, July 27, 2005, 12:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I agree that doing enzymes to fight candida has real possibilities - I'm counting on it!  But do you see it as an "alternative" to other supplements?  I'm giving my son Candex - but also giving him probiotics and an antifungal.  Is it better to do the enzyme without the antifungal?  I think probiotics can negate antifungals if taken at the same time so I've been doing probiotics and Candex together (early AM and late PM) and antifungals in middle of day.  Does that make sense?
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Victoria
Wednesday, July 27, 2005, 7:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm wondering if any of you have used ThreeLac for candida, and if so, how successful was the program?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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CarolineC
Wednesday, July 27, 2005, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Victoria

I have taken a product called Candidase by a company called Enzymedica.  It works quite well, but it also contains protein digesting enzymes in addition to the cellulase type enzymes.  Candex does not recommend taking the Protease because they say it digests the beneficial probiotics in addition to the candida.  For this reason, I am interested in trying the Candex.  Thanks for this tip.
 


Victoria, I tried Canidase before I found Candex. It didn't work for me, I didn't feel like it really had the power I need.  After I take my first dose in the morning.. my body does some pretty strange things. So, even though it says  you will "see" no die off ......I  think depending on how severe the case is.. you can very well "see" die off.
I also take  garlic and caprylic acid, but  the product I'm using says take with meals. which I do when I take  my magnesium. so, I am curious on what yaman said.
Caroline


Sound of the ocean soothes my restless soul
Sound of the ocean rocks me all night long.
Last night in my dream
I saw your face again
We were there in the sun
On a white sandy beach of Hawaii


R.N.who belives in BTD as the  only way
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Lola
Wednesday, July 27, 2005, 11:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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yamancim, (the candida expert)
or other moderators?......
how about putting both candida threads into one huge big one?
so no one misses one or the other?

you could also create a part I, II (with a direct link to part I)and so on.......so it doesn t get so looooong!! )
thanks!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Victoria
Thursday, July 28, 2005, 2:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Caroline,
What does the caprylic acid do?  I have been keeping Oregano oil caps around for when symptoms begin to appear, and I take them with the Candidase (now, it may well be Candex).  I took caprylic acid once a couple of years ago, and it upset my stomach.  Is it worth the discomfort??



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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yaman
Thursday, July 28, 2005, 6:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Victoria,

Peter recommends caprylic acid to O's.

For B's the protocol is tinctures of oregano, thyme, rosemary, coriander seed, plus olive oil.

Caroline, the bottle says that the caprylic acid should be taken with meals, but protocol says away from meals. As usual I take Peter's route..

Cheers,
Yaman


"You are never given a problem without the will power to solve it"
Richard Bach - Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
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Lola
Thursday, July 28, 2005, 8:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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BLOOD GROUP B

Oregano (Origanum vulgare) tincture: 4-7 drops, twice daily
Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) tincture: 5-10 drops, twice daily
Coriander seeds (Coriandrum sativum) tincture: 2-3 drops, twice daily
Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis)
Olive oil: 1 tbsp, twice daily between meals  
Polyflora B (ABO Specific Probiotic): 2 capsule daily


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Elizabeth
Thursday, July 28, 2005, 8:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So morning spit looks like a miniature white squid, roiling around in a glass of water the minute it gets there, then settling and stretching down to the bottom.  Trying clove, caprilic acid, garlic, flaxseed for three days so far, waiting for NAP to get settled again to get stinging nettle root--noticeable GI affect, not positive (think blimp).  Didn't know I had a problem until reading about the test, but --but caprylic acid is a great mood-improver, I see.  Thanks to all for your input.  I will keep following the thread, looking for ideas.  
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Lola
Thursday, July 28, 2005, 10:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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there is another candida thread you might want to follow:
scroll down the' recent threads' page.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Victoria
Friday, July 29, 2005, 3:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lola, Yaman and Caroline,
Thanks for the info, ideas, feedback and sharings.  I'm sorry I didn't follow the other thread when it was starting.  I went over there, and got cold feet, because it's so HUGE.

I am curious what the symptoms of Candida are.  (I know I can read the 40,000 posts in the other thread and find out ........but!)  I have several strange and seemingly disconected things that start to go on with my body whenever I get extremely tired, overworked and overstressed.  I'm starting to think that maybe all of them are Candida related, instead of just the narrow range of things that I used to think of as candida.  I always figured that it was stuff like....coated tongue, fungal toenails or gums, ear infections....oh, I dunno....

So, I'm getting intestinal stuff..gassy bloating, noisy intestines after eating, always in the same place (at the bend in the road where the ascending colon meets the transverse colon), , irregular bowel movements, plus foggy vision, fatigue, restless sleep, stiff joints, aches and pains, chronic stuffy sinus, on one side only.....

I did the spit test this morning.  One tiny tendril immediately formed and sank to the bottom.  After that, a cloudy spot of spit settled on the bottom of the glass.  The majority just sat on the top of the water.

What do you think?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Lola
Friday, July 29, 2005, 4:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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follow the recomendations ....
have you tried the protocols yet?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Victoria
Friday, July 29, 2005, 5:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've tried the oregano oil and it seems to help, as long as I don't take it non-stop for more than a couple of weeks.  Then it starts to irritate my stomach.

I can't find Thyme or coriander tincture, and no I haven't tried olive oil between meals.  

I do take the ARA6 twice a day, as well as probiotic and zinc, magnesium, rice tocotrienols and a lot of chlorophyl, and I cook with ghee.

I don't eat any sugar, honey, maple syrup or vinegar, grain intake is low.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Lola
Friday, July 29, 2005, 11:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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what about fruit?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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mikeo
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 1:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It seems this thread is multiplying like Candida would...we have a serious problem.

Mike


RHN MIfHI
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Lola
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 2:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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one of the moderators should put both of them into one big one! )

with a part I, II..etc (like Tas did for the australia thread)


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Victoria
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 2:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, Mike!  You're right....We can't stop talking!  It's Growing!!

Lola,
I do eat fruit..... a couple of spoonfuls of blueberries in my morning blender drink.  Occasional fresh organic cherries or 1/2 papaya, sometimes sweet potatoes with salmon for dinner, Proberry and ARA 6 everyday.  I'm not a big sweet eater, but not totally fruit-free either.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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svmom61
Wednesday, August 17, 2005, 3:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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[color=red][/color][b][/b]This is weird -- I came here looking for a reason for the things I'm experiencing and found all this, which sounds just like what I'm going through.  I'm a B and just started the diet over last weekend.  I feel tired, achy (especially hips and lower back), and was thinking maybe I have a yeast infection.  Is this what's happening to me -- candida detox???  Or is there something else going on?

Nancy
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Lola
Wednesday, August 17, 2005, 8:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Nancy,
welcome!)

If you go to the top of the page and click on member centre and get yourself a nice avatar then we can all see what blood type you are and you won't have to type it each time you post.

tY!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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TheViking
Friday, August 26, 2005, 10:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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How are the wars going? Any progress?

A battle report would be mostly appreciated

I'm still not sure what way to go with this problem. I'm trying to follow an anti-candida diet, but seems like al I eat now is fried meat, sometimes fish, and vegetables.. I'm starting to miss my brown rice Won't have any of that till this thing is gone though as it is causing me way to many problems and annoying symptoms.

I am getting some herbs soon that are suppose to help against candida, and I recently ordered a pack of products from NAP which will hopefully give the fight a little kick as well..


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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TheViking
Sunday, September 18, 2005, 4:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hmm.. seems like the herbs got lost in the mail or something :/


Anyways, I want to ask about something that has been troubling me..

For quite a few weeks now I've had some sort of urinary discharge - which could maybe be some sort of urinary tract infection? - can this be another candida die off symptom, or does it mean I'm doing something completely wrong and the candida is actually getting stronger in my system?

Btw. I'm male and I just read in my roommate's medical dictionary that urinary tract infection is very rare for males.. Also saw that the candidaconnection.com site lists urinary tract infection as a typical candida symptom, so I'm guessing it's due to the candida...

So.. Am I doing the right things? Is it getting better or worse with this symptom appearing?


Thanks for all replies


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Lola
Sunday, September 18, 2005, 9:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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buchu tincture at http://www.azurestandard.com

has helped a few combat UTI........

I wouldn t know.....and it hasn t been rated, but maybe someone will.

sorry you re uncomfortable Viking........hope this also passes.....(


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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JK
Sunday, September 18, 2005, 10:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Over this past month I have been taking caprylates and eating lots of raw garlic as well as taking probiotics, to combat Candida. A month ago my spit test was full of tendrils and descending globs and now the test is much improved; hardly any descending whatnots! My tongue, which has been coated for years, is almost completely clear except way back where I can't use mechanical action -- my toothbrush -- to loosen the yeast. Garlic helps alot here since the caprylates are a pill and don't act in the mouth unless getting there systemically. The raw garlic burns the yeast off while bringing tears to my eyes but hey, it's worth it! All of this improvement has been made while eating rice, fruit, honey and agave syrup daily. I am on an elimination diet for leaky gut syndrome and have to eat something after all!!

From what I read, this is abnormal, to be  killing Candida but still eating these things. Awhile back I read something about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet recommendations for fighting Candida, and I guess that is what I am doing so I wanted to share this as perhaps a less rigorous dietary approach, while still nixing the yeastie beasties.
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TheViking
Monday, September 19, 2005, 7:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hmm

Interesting story JK. Do keep us updated on how your journey continues

I went to the hfs today and got some stinging nettle capsules which I'll also be taking.. Didn't find caprylates though, but i didn't completely remember the name when I was there so I'll have to go back tomorrow and do a recheck for it..

Lola: Thanks for the information and link. I'll see if I can find it at some local store at first and if not I guess I'll have to order it online..


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Elizabeth
Monday, September 19, 2005, 1:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Good luck Viking.  Try a leaf of red cabbage after every meal (cabbage is a good Scandinavian heritage food).  Also the not-quite-sugar xylitol, which I am finding kills them off well--they eat it, think it is sugar, and die of lack of nourishment, or something like that.  Both of these changes (added to the protocol: caprilyic acid, UDA plus--which, you should note, is stinging nettle ROOT, not leaf, clove, garlic).  I could not find stinging nettle ROOT in my hfc, had to order from NAP. The two tweaks above added a lot to the efficacy of the process.  Last night, raspberries with xylitol--very pretty, sparkling with sugar: good for me, bad for them!  Barely a whisper in the saliva this morning.
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TheViking
Monday, September 19, 2005, 1:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks Elizabeth

Seems like I've bought the wrong thing again then..
The stinging nettle I got contains:
Urtica dioica (Nettle) leaf powder



xylitol is another thing I get at my hfs or where do you suggest getting that?

and raspberries are ok?


Today I woke up with a really sore throat and I've felt slack all day. And it seems like the UT discharge is even more active than normal.. hmm, think it's time I send an e-mail to that naturopath and hear if it's possible to get an appointment soon..

I've cut out all fruits, including berries, although I've had blueberries a couple of times after going on the candida diet..


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Elizabeth
Monday, September 19, 2005, 2:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I had cut out the berries and fruits all around--now that I am much improved, and have found the cabbage (really miraculous) and xylitol, I am slowing adding back.  I long for sweet potatoes and peaches....  I had tried the cabbage on a short vacation, and was amazed by how much it helped.  Just chew a leaf after each meal, one before bed.  (Now, back at home, I am adding John's sauerkraut somewhere in there as well.)  Very best--this stuff is discouraging.
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TheViking
Monday, September 19, 2005, 2:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I still need to get to the sauerkraut thing, but got a vacation coming up next week if I don't get to it earlier it'll happen then.. Did try soaking some walnuts yesterday though and right now they're on some paper towels in hope of getting dry again :p ..I can't toast them as that would halfway ruin them, so not sure what else to do.. :/

You didn't answer the xylitol, but I presume the hfs is the place to go for it..

Maybe I'm feeling so bad today because I've had a lot of cabbage this weekend and got a bit too hard on the albicans causing more die-off symptoms..


Anyways, the war goes on!


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Elizabeth
Monday, September 19, 2005, 2:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sorry (both re cabbage and xylitol)!  Yes, hfc is the place.  (In excess, xylitol says it can cause loose bowel movements--sometimes a good thing re: candida, sometimes not).  Best wishes (and yes, I would check in with a naturopathic pro).
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JK
Monday, September 19, 2005, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I found this interesting and not the first time I had come across a link between mercury fillings and Candida persistence. BTW, I am anemic and hypothyroid as well.

"CANDIDA

Selenium deficiency and anemia appear to be the biggest factors in promoting candida growth. Years ago when I had hypoT I also had a severe candida infection. I found a book titled "Candida: Silver (Mercury) Fillings and the Immune System" which eventually led me to getting my mercury fillings removed. Following this and supplementation with zinc and selenium, my candida and hypoT both ended.

Experiments with animals show that candida growth can be increased by selenium deprivation and reduced by selenium supplementation. Since mercury depletes selenium, it makes sense that candida is higher when there are mercury fillings in the teeth.

Other studies show that anemia and iron deficiency increase candida growth. There are some studies suggesting that B12 and folic acid deficiencies may be involved in candida, since deficiencies of these lead to anemia. In anemia and iron deficiency friendly bacteria cannot grow well in the body. A lack of these bacteria probably is a key factor which promotes candida growth, since candida is a fungal growth rather than a bacteria growth.

Another study showed that women with recurrent vulvovaginal candidiasis are deficient in zinc compared to normals and that only a mild zinc deficiency is necessary for this recurring problem.

Basically it seems that the deficiencies associated with candidiasis correlate very well with the deficiencies associated with hypothyroidism. The key nutrient deficiencies are probably selenium, zinc, iron, B12, and folic acid.

Probably the best indicator of the level of candida growth in the body is the coating on the tongue. The more white coating there is, the more candida there probably is throughout the body. We want to get to the point where our tongues are clear, pink, and not sore.

The following study shows that candida albicans has a higher resistance to elevated concentrations of copper than baker's yeast. This may mean that in hypothyroidism, when zinc is low and copper is high, candida growth will not be suppressed by copper, which is normally toxic to fungal infections.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Mar 28;97(7):3520-5

The high copper tolerance of Candida albicans is mediated by a P-type ATPase.

Weissman Z, Berdicevsky I, Cavari BZ, Kornitzer D

Department of Molecular Microbiology, The Bruce Rappaport Faculty of Medicine, Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa 31096, Israel.

The pathogenic yeast Candida albicans has higher resistance than the baker's yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to elevated concentrations of copper. To understand the basis of this differential resistance, we performed a functional screen for C. albicans genes involved in copper detoxification. Here, we report the isolation of two such genes: a metallothionein, CaCUP1, and a copper-transporting P-type ATPase, CaCRP1. Both genes are induced by extracellular copper. Gene disruptions indicated that the copper extrusion pump is responsible for the unusual resistance of C. albicans to copper, whereas the metallothionein is responsible for the residual copper resistance of the Cacrp1Delta mutant. We show further that under acidic and anaerobic conditions, such as prevail in the natural niche of C. albicans, the digestive tract of animals, CaCRP1 function becomes essential for survival in the presence of even very low copper concentrations. These observations suggest that copper in the gastrointestinal tract may present a toxic challenge to which enteric organisms had to adapt.

The following studies show that selenium is a key nutrient in the control of candida albicans.
 J Nutr 1986 May;116(5):816-22  


The response of selenium-deficient mice to Candida albicans infection.

Boyne R, Arthur JR

The effects of selenium deficiency on the responses to Candida albicans infection were examined in mice. When selenium-deficient and selenium-supplemented mice were given i.v. injections of 0.1 ml suspensions of 1 X 10(5) or 5 X 10(4) C. albicans in 0.9% sterile saline, deaths in the selenium-deficient animals started after 2.5-3.5 d compared with 7-8.5 d in the selenium-supplemented animals. Further studies demonstrated that 3 d after an i.v. injection of 1 X 10(5) C. albicans, significantly more of the microorganisms were found in the kidneys (P less than 0.001), livers (P less than 0.025) and spleens (P less than 0.01) of the selenium-deficient mice compared with the same organs of selenium-supplemented animals. Selenium deficiency was also demonstrated to impair the ability of mouse neutrophils to kill C. albicans in in vitro tests. The possible relationships of this defect in function to decreased resistance to C. albicans infection is discussed.
 J Comp Pathol 1986 Jul;96(4):379-86  


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JK
Monday, September 19, 2005, 6:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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And there is more.... too long for one posting. Hope everyone else finds it interesting too.

An in vivo and in vitro study of selenium deficiency and infection in rats.

Boyne R, Arthur JR, Wilson AB

Selenium deficiency in rats impairs the ability of neutrophils and peritoneal macrophages to kill Candida albicans organisms in vitro. In contrast, killing of Salmonella typhimurium and Staphylococcus aureus organisms is unaffected by the deficiency. Survival of rats after intraperitoneal injection of 8 X 10(7) S. aureus organisms was not affected by Se deficiency, but a 5-fold increase in the dose (4 X 10( S. aureus organisms) led to a significantly greater mortality in the Se deficient rats.

Indian J Biochem Biophys 1994 Oct;31(5):427-9  


Effect of experimental selenium deficiency and its supplementation on the candidacidal activity of neutrophils in albino rats.

Kukreja R, Khan A

Department of Biochemistry, Nagpur University.

The role of selenium in the diet of rats has been examined with respect to the neutrophil functions. Feeding of Se-deficient diet for 75 days resulted in reduction in candidacidal activity, superoxide production, oxygen consumption, glucose utilisation and glutathione peroxidase activity. Supplementing the diet with Se for 30 days resulted in partial restoration of all the activities.
Biotin deficiency may also be involved in candida albicans.
Semin Dermatol 1991 Dec;10(4):296-302  


Skin manifestations of biotin deficiency.

Mock DM

Department of Pediatrics, University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics, Iowa City 52242.

This article reviews current knowledge concerning the dermatologic manifestations of biotin deficiency. Biotin is a water-soluble vitamin that acts as an essential cofactor for four carboxylases, each of which catalyzes an essential step in intermediary metabolism. For example, acetyl-CoA carboxylase catalyzes the rate-limiting step in fatty acid elongation. In infants, children, and adults, deficiency of biotin causes alopecia and a characteristic scaly, erythematous dermatitis distributed around body orifices. The rash closely resembles that of zinc deficiency. Candida albicans often can be cultured from the skin lesions. Biotinidase deficiency, an inborn error, causes biotin deficiency, probably as a consequence of unpaired intestinal absorption, cellular salvage, and renal reclamation of biotin; biotinidase deficiency causes dermatologic manifestations similar to biotin deficiency. There is evidence that impaired fatty acid metabolism secondary to reduced activities of the biotin-dependent carboxylases (especially acetyl-CoA carboxylase) plays an etiologic role in the dermatologic manifestations of biotin deficiency. Candida infections secondary to impaired immune function might also contribute to the dermatitis of biotin deficiency.
 Am J Obstet Gynecol 1986 Nov;155(5):1082-5  


Zinc status in women with recurrent vulvovaginal candidiasis.

Edman J, Sobel JD, Taylor ML

Zinc status has been shown to influence various cell-mediated immunologic mechanisms. These cell-mediated mechanisms are important in preventing mucocutaneous infections caused by Candida albicans. This study evaluated the relationship between zinc status and recurrent vaginal candidiasis by comparing plasma and erythrocyte zinc in 29 patients with recurrent vaginal candidiasis and 20 control subjects matched for age, race, and parity. The results indicated that there was a significantly lower level of plasma zinc in women with recurrent vaginal candidiasis (81 + 11.6 mg/dl) than in the control subjects (91 +/- 14.2 mg/dl) with a significant value of p = 0.015. These differences in plasma zinc levels were even greater when adjusted for dietary zinc and supplemental zinc with the use of analyses of covariance. No differences in erythrocyte zinc measurements were found between the two groups. These results suggest that mild zinc deficiency is associated with recurrent vaginal candidiasis and may play a role in the susceptibility of women to recurrent vaginal candidiasis.
 J Med Microbiol 1983 Aug;16(3):363-9  


The role of iron deficiency in experimentally-induced oral candidosis in the rat.

Rennie JS, Hutcheon AW, MacFarlane TW, MacDonald DG

In comparison with normal rats, those with iron deficiency anaemia showed no significant difference in susceptibility to experimental infection with Candida albicans although anaemic rats had a significantly greater incidence of persistent infection. These findings support the suggestion that patients with chronic candidosis should be investigated for iron deficiency.
 Arch Oral Biol 1982;27(6):497-503  


Experimental oral infection with the yeast Candida albicans in mice with or without inherited iron-deficiency anaemia (sla).

Sofaer JA, Holbrook WP, Southam JC

The role of iron deficiency in the development of oral candidosis was investigated using the mouse mutant sex-linked anaemia (sla). Susceptibility was assessed in terms of the recovery of organisms, particularly from oral swabs, and histological evidence of infection approximately 10 days after the last exposure to Candida albicans. The influence of three factors was studied in mixed groups of normal and anaemic mice: mode of inoculation, treatment with tetracycline and treatment with hydrocortisone. The most susceptible group had received drinking water containing tetracycline (1 mg/ml), hydrocortisone (0.1 mg/ml) and candida (5 X 10(4) c.f.u./ml for 6 days). Anaemic mice showed a rather higher rate of recovery of organisms and more frequent histological evidence of infection than normal mice in certain groups. Neither of these tendencies was statistically significant alone but, taken together, they suggest that some small difference of susceptibility may exist between normal mice and mice with sla. The mouse model could be of value in studying the influence of several other inherited disorders on susceptibility to candidosis. "
 
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resting
Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 12:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Viking and others with compromized gut,

Because I am an 0-nonnie. I was not very happy with the protocols calling for avoidance of all sugars - starches and fruit.  There must be a much easier way ... by golly I think I've found IT! ... in a honey called Really Raw Honey.  

The theory goes that hives being dark and humid places are natural spots for fungal growth and fungi are deadly to bees.  if honey remains unheated, it retains this anti-fungal property.  And it does so for the entire tract including the mouth and teeth.  On top of that this honey heals cuts quickly ... truely astounding.  Had this for only six days now and my stomach is more settled than in the last 20 years.

On the thread of 'BTD and Crohn's a whole pile of info is there including Brighit45's use of peppermint pills,  Very helpful...

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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JK
Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 5:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi John,

How is Really Raw Honey different from raw honey...? Isn't all raw honey unheated?

Thanks for the heads up about the other post.
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TheViking
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Quoted from Elizabeth
Good luck Viking.  Try a leaf of red cabbage after every meal (cabbage is a good Scandinavian heritage food).  Also the not-quite-sugar xylitol, which I am finding kills them off well--they eat it, think it is sugar, and die of lack of nourishment, or something like that.  Both of these changes (added to the protocol: caprilyic acid, UDA plus--which, you should note, is stinging nettle ROOT, not leaf, clove, garlic).  I could not find stinging nettle ROOT in my hfc, had to order from NAP. The two tweaks above added a lot to the efficacy of the process.  Last night, raspberries with xylitol--very pretty, sparkling with sugar: good for me, bad for them!  Barely a whisper in the saliva this morning.



Ehm, where do I use the xylitol and how much?

Since I have cut out sugars completely, and with the candida diet I feel there's not much suitable for some sugar coating.. So should I just take teaspoon pure every day or something? :|

Still on the lookout for capryl.. :S


Thanks


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 6:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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John: I'll keep my eyes out for that Really Raw Honey


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Elizabeth
Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 1:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well, now we get down to recipes.  

1.  I have hit the "a little fruit ok" stage, so I put it on the raspberries or blueberries (2 t to a couple of T fruit--and that's it, small portion only).  You may not be there yet.

2.  Last night, after a hot walk home (80's and humid) I had sparkling water (I am treating myself to good brands "for the duration"), about half a lime squeezed in, and xylitol to sweeten.

3.  At the hfs I found some almond meal (Bob's Red Mill here)--just finely ground blanched almonds.  One could do that oneself in a blender, just whirl them fine.  Then mix 2 T almonds, 2 t. xylitol, a little butter or ghee, a TINY pinch of salt, especially if your butter/ghee is unsalted. a few drops of boiling water and you get something like marzipan/almond candy.  I thought it was excellent.  On the Bob's package, they explain that the French use this to make the filling in almond pastry, so I think if one made a little more than the 2 T. worth (say double the recipe) and added an egg, one could make almond custard in an egg coddler or custard dish.  For the coddler, just stir the stuff together, dump it in, screw on the top, cook 5-10 minutes in a pot of already boiling water.  (Yes, someone GAVE us egg coddlers.)  Alternatively, if the handy device is not at hand, turn the oven on to medium about 10 minutes before you start, then boil a full kettle of water to use in a minute, put the stuff in a little oven-proof dish (aka custard cup), put the dish in a larger oven-proof glass dish or enamal pan or whatever, fill the larger pan with water so it goes half way up the side of the little dish, and bake in the medium oven until set (cooked, whatever--it should no longer be runny, may still jiggle a little in the middle).  I plan to try that one soon--but it should work.  I'll give feedback once I do.

4. Just put xylitol and almond meal together, stir, and eat.  Small portions are key.  Too much and the nuts are a stressor for the digestion.  This is very rich, and very small amounts can satisfy.  If sweet flavors are missing from life, these are (for me) great ways to add them back.

5.  I have not gotten there yet, but the almond stuff should work with a dash of unsweetened cocoa powder, if one misses chocolate.
These all take longer to type than to prepare (except the custard).  Good luck!
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TheViking
Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 1:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks Elizabeth

You really got my mouth running with that marxipan recipe

I haven't had marzipan for years - as it's one of the things I cut out many years ago when I had some sort of allergic reaction (same time I cut out coconut, oranges and some other stuff i don't remember right now). It made my swollen hands get back to normal and I didn't touch any of those things for a looong time. I have started eating almonds again though after starting the btd and still no problems there - and you should know I've had quite a few  - have a tendency to snack to fast and too much on those almonds though :S

Anyways, thanks for the recipes and I'll give that marzipan a try very soon


Suspecting: Crohn's (biospy, not 100%), Candida, wheat allergy/coeliac?, chronic sinusitis, fistulation :/, juvenile arthritis(?), milk intolerance...

Currently trying to fight the albicans kritters, but seems like a never-ending battle..
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Elizabeth
Tuesday, September 20, 2005, 2:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I know about the too fast thing.  At regular meals, I am now working to put down my fork between bites, chew thoroughly, don't pick up the fork again until completely done swallowing, ask myself if I am still hungry, or already full....  I now take almost half again as long as my husband (another O, but without the digestive issues) to eat.  Talk about enforced mindfulness!  I actually think that when one does not digest well, at some level the body is desperate for nourishment, and there is a desire to "wolf" one's food and eat too much, just to be sure of getting enough.  It is interesting to me that I feel that feeling less as the c. condition improves.  Not pausing between bites is a bit different, and a habit that just needs to be changed.  Sorry for all the musing, but you got me thinking.
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cyn
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I know alot of people on this forum are familiar with the horrors of yeast overgrowth.  My question is - is anyone familiar with the specific type of candida known as small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) , also known as small bowel bacterial overgrowth (SBBO), also known as fermentation type of dysbiosis?  This forum has been immensely helpful to me in dealing with my son's candida.  He's certainly improved in the 5 1/2 months since we started treating it.  But now I feel like I need support from people who are familiar with his specific problem.  I don't think it's very common - certainly not nearly as common as the usual large intestinal version that most people seem to have.  Anyone out there know about this form?  I really need you!! Thanks  
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mikeo
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 6:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Small Bowel Bacterial Overgrowth(SBBO) is a proliferation of colonic-type bacteria in the upper gastrointestinal tract(the stomach, duodenum, and jejunum). It only occurs when the normal defenses against bacterial proliferation are reduced. Some cause factors are listed below:

Slowed peristalic motion, which reduces clearance of food from the stomach.
Reduced gastric acidity, which normally keeps the stomach nearly sterile.
Exposure to antibiotics, which reduces the number of protective, native bacteria in the GI tract.
Surgical re-section of the small intestine.
SBBO causes malabsorption, lethargy, fatigue, and various gastrointestinal symptoms. It is difficult to eradicate, and is principally treated by trying to eliminate the overgrown population of microbes with various antimicrobial drugs. It often requires continued treatment.

Comparison to chronic candida
The causes, symptoms, and treatment of SBBO are almost identical to CRC. The malabsorption seen in SBBO is more severe, and SBBO can be tested for while chronic candida cannot. The proof of SBBO is a quantitative culture of the small intestine, an invasive and complicated test to perform.

what is your son's blood type?



RHN MIfHI
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cyn
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the info Mikeo.  My son is also an A.  One of the reasons it took me so long to figure out what was wrong with him (he'd been having odd symptoms for 8 months before I knew what it was) was because he didn't fit into the usual mold of those with candida. - such as overuse of antibiotics (he's now 13 and I think he had a 7-10 day round of antibiotics once in his life).  I'm now pretty sure he was "allergic" to tomatoes (avoid for an A) and tended to have them in large quantities in the form of cooked tomato sauce (pasta, meatballs, pizza, etc) - and he always loved ketchup.  Over time his stomach/ small intestines reacted to the tomatoes which ultimately resulted in an environment that allowed yeast to grow out of control.  Now of course, he's blood type compliant, but somehow I need to deal with the secondary yeast overgrowth that was created.

I've read the info that you posted before and it's depressing.  I guess I'm looking for someone who's dealt with this and beat it??  As I said, my son is getting better - but it's so very slow.  I know that's true for other candida sufferers, but his does seem to be slower.

Anyway, if anyone has any information about this - any personal experience would be great.  
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Victoria
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cyn,
I'm sorry the young man has to deal with this, and I don't have any specific knowlege about that type.  I just wanted to suggest that perhaps in addition to whatever other treatment plan you are trying, that you also add enzymes that digest candida.  There are several brands, and different folks like different ones.  The one I use is Candidase by Enzymedica and it seems to be quickly effective.  Perhaps it would help him.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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mikeo
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 10:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would recommend you son drink the juice of a fresh lemon juice with warm water first thing in the morning 30 minutes before he has breakfast...he needs to increase his stomach acid as the first line of defense.

I would also suggest stinging nettle root 1 capsules twice daily which will agglutinate the candida and wash it from his system
Larch Aribinolalactan to help neutralize the bacteria in his gut ARA6
http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/BTstore/BTSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=NP001

Probiotic for his blood type...polyflora A
http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/BTstore/BTSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=BT003A

increase his consumption of Olive oil

thyme leaf, oregano leaf and rosemary leaf prmote improved resistance against bacteria and candida

Lastly...is he sneaking candy or candy bars into his mouth when he's at school?


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cyn
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 10:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks for responses.

Victoria - he's taking Candex - 2 in AM and 2 in PM both times without food and with probiotic.

Mikeo - He drinks at least 1 liter of lemon water & green tea mixture throughout the day.  I push him to have more and sometimes he does closer to 2 liters.  He really likes lemon juice.  He has a lemon juice and olive oil mixture in his salad.  As for cheating  - absolutely no way.  He's miserable with this and is willing to try anything.  He's actually afraid to eat things because for the past year anything he eats makes him gassy - which, if bad enough, makes him sick.

This situation is really quite scary.  When I look at the whole picture, he's improving.  But I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Victoria
Saturday, September 24, 2005, 11:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You're doing so well, Cyn!    

Mikeo's advice is very good....all those substances he mentiones.....pure gold!  ARA6 is an amazing substance and in addition to what he described, it provides food for the beneficial bacteria to thrive and multiply.

Keep at it.  No doubt he will continue to improve and you will begin to feel more optimism.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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cyn
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 2:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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About the ARA6 - it says it's a good source of soluble fiber.  One of the things that feeds the yeast in SBBO is soluble fiber. -  Which makes it just about impossible to avoid feeding that yeast in a given day.  Because psyllium is also a soluble fiber we stopped that (he definitely had considerably more gas after taking it).   What we ended up doing was to go for fibers that had more insoluble than soluble - but just can't avoid some soluble. (he's able to tolerate some fruits - It turns out that's typical with this SBBO)  That worked better than the psyllium.  The ARA6 concerns me for the same reason.
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Quoted from cyn
Thanks for responses.

Victoria - he's taking Candex - 2 in AM and 2 in PM both times without food and with probiotic.

Mikeo - He drinks at least 1 liter of lemon water & green tea mixture throughout the day.  I push him to have more and sometimes he does closer to 2 liters.  He really likes lemon juice.  He has a lemon juice and olive oil mixture in his salad.  As for cheating  - absolutely no way.  He's miserable with this and is willing to try anything.  He's actually afraid to eat things because for the past year anything he eats makes him gassy - which, if bad enough, makes him sick.



This situation is really quite scary.  When I look at the whole picture, he's improving.  But I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.


He's on his way...it might just take more time and he might turn the corner very fast




RHN MIfHI
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cyn
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 2:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Victoria,

Thanks so much for the encouragement.  Today has just been a bad day for my son and I guess I'm reacting to that.  It's just that I know how difficult it is to rid oneself of a typical yeast overgrowth - and then to read that my 13 year old son has a type of candida that is even more difficult than that to eliminate!  And I feel so helpless sometimes.  Anyway, any ideas on how I can hook up with others who have personal experience with this?  Thanks again for kind words.,
Cynthia
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cyn
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 2:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Mikeo,

Thanks for your kind words.  I really hope your right and we're nearing the end.  Do you know if people continue to have their original yeast symptoms periodically right up to the end?  There seems to be fine line between what's die off and what's yeast symptoms.
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mikeo
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Caprylic acid is strong stuff but your son might be able to tolerate it....350mg 1-2 capsules twice daily away from food


RHN MIfHI
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Victoria
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There was a big discussion recently about candida.  Have you browsed through all the posts?  It's long, but contains some information, experiences and links to a couple of good sites with support available.  Here are a couple of links I got.....I think.....from Lola.  Maybe you would find some folks through them who might have knowlege, experience or ideas of what you are dealing with.

http://www.wholeapproach.com/

http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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cyn
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 1:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Can the stinging nettle be taken without the other products recommended?
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Don
Sunday, September 25, 2005, 5:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Red Meat Eater
Saturday, October 8, 2005, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can't help thinking that ANY kind of honey would exacerbate Candida.  I used to suffer from it and I don't want to get it back again


Kombu noodles are DELICIOUS (and wheat-free)
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Saturday, October 8, 2005, 5:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi again,

This is what I'm counting on.  The rationalle: any kind of fungus is deadly to bees ... so how can they thive in a dark, moist place like a hive and have no fungi at all?  It seems the answer is found in a special honey form ... the UNHEATED honey.  Even in the USA, honey can claim to be 'raw' that is heated enough to flow easily.  The heated kind alters the molecular structure and kills all enzymes.

Check out www.reallyrawhoney,com

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ion
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Kyosha Nim
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John Hi!!
I am not sure if honey is responsible for the "clean" bee house.
Have you ever heard of Propolis?
Maybe there is an information much more valuable than honey it self.
It is worth googling on it.
Ion


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Sam Dan
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Hi ion,

my trip with this special kind of honey is very recent ... like most others, I stayed clear of honey mainly because it was only a sweetner like the rest (sweetners).  Years ago I had tried bee pollen and it is one of the very few things that I had lots of trouble with.  So the more-expensive propolis and Royal Jelly were not taken at all.

Fast foreward, I have learned that unheated honey has many, many beneficial properties.  These are contained in honey's unheated state.  Other bee products like propolis may be even more effective ... I do not know.  Right now, The Really Raw Honey seems to be working well and it is what I can afford.  Will the propolis work better ... faster ???????????

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ion
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Kyosha Nim
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I mention earlier propolis because when a bee finds something nasty in beehive then secrets something and starts covering it as to isolate it completely.
That secretion is called propolis (not wax) and suppose to have incredible qualities.
Antibacterial, antifungal and many more. Unfortunately I know no more.
It is good to learn though, If somebody has information please...coming in.
Ion



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ieatmeatnlikeit
Sunday, October 9, 2005, 6:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I wish to share what I heard about "raw uncooked saurkrout"(Sorry I can't seem to find that word in my head) and candida. I haven't seen it mentioned recently. I seem to remember possibly writting about it a while back. Anyway I read a book called: The Yeast Connection-, once upon a time and came across the subject elsewhere at the same time. It seems that healthy garden variety bacteria live on veggies in healthy gardens. This bacteria will set to transform chopped up veggies like cabbage into raw sauerkrout? When ready to eat after fermenting or whatever that might be called a dollop with every meal will  slowly pull the performers in your gut into the digestive ballet required to set things right again. I trust there are some fermentable veggies for all blood types. Has anyone more verifiable details about this?
iemnli


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Alek
Sunday, October 9, 2005, 10:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Propolis is a sticky resin that seeps from the buds of some trees and oozes from the bark of other trees, chiefly conifers.
The bees gather propolis, sometimes called bee glue, and carry it home in their pollen baskets. They blend with wax flakes secreted from special glands on their abdomens. propolis is used to slickly line the intirior of brood sells in preparation for the queen's laying of eggs, a most important procedure. With its antiseptic properties, this propolis lining insures a hospital-clean enviroment for the rearing of brood.
Propolis is very complex mixture. A broad analysis reveals approximatly 55% recinous compound and balsam, 30% bee's wax, 10% ethereal and aromatic oils, and 5% bee pollen. Many flanovols contribute to propolis.
It is so powerful in action, it is often called Russian penicillin in acknowledgement of the extensive research that Russians have done on propolis. alek




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Alek
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Propolis demonstrates strong antimicrobial properties against various bacterial and fungal infestations.
As a child, that was the only medication I was ever given. Alek




MIFHI


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Sam Dan
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thanks Alek and for the headsup ieatmeatnlikeit,

the information will help many people stimied in their fight against candia and other overgrowths .....

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Sunday, October 9, 2005, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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John

You might find this video news clip interesting.

A taste of honey: Can ancient remedies defeat superbug?

It is currently on the bottom right corner of this page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/default.stm#


FIFHI; ISTP;
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ISA-MANUELA
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I think that honey is a beautiful aid for healings of wounds... but not for candida
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Sam Dan
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Isa,

why not, huh? maybe the bee propolis then?  kindly explain where the flaw is ......

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
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it could be a trigger because of the sugars in.... but the propolis is *the* enzymatic
bombe for better immunsystem but may trigger also... just you the O's with allergies;
and even for *anti-aging-products of all kind
candida is in need of sugar for its own growth... so far   sorry

I'll bet for propolis but may depending of the kind of bacteries to kill for ....but sorry with candida...I've got my little problems to solve in my head because I dont' think that it might help against candida.....but perhaps other fungii
John- I am sorry must have a look into my super-books... I've a lack here will get you later for this and give a report
I remain isa
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ion
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Kyosha Nim
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Alek well done.
Very well informed.
Do you remember in what kind of form you were taking it as a child?
See you soon.
Ion


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ISA-MANUELA
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aaaand John sorry couldn't resiste didn't saw the *holy books* until now.. but it seems it depends :































              on their bloodtype (bee's btd )  

   they procure their salivatest directly with the pollen = propolis is done! bang........
  but..... what is in their saliva...... depends on ......  
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Agapimeni Ion, my mother knew honey keeper and was getting it fresh, and was making syrop, now it is tincture and here you get them in the pharmacy.
We can search together in Athens.
Isa, the best propolis i ever bought was in your country.

yaamanaki still searching bee milk but so far have no information through my honey book. Will ask the guy that has bees in the village.

alek




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Kyosha Nim
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As a kid I used to get it in small brown lumps - I had to chew on it when I was having a sore throat or the flue.
It worked really well. However it was rather strong tasting- so maybe modern kids prefer unheated honey?
I have plenty of both propelis and honey
Here we can still buy it at the pharmacy
BTW A large study is peformed at one of the leading univercity hospitals here that show that honey spread on very bad wounds are far better than any other "chemical" -the docs are SO impressed- it works better than antibiotic creams.... I kind of want to say " I COULD HAVE TOLD YOU SO... BUT IT is great that thery finally look into the knowledge our forfathers/mothers had.


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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Victoria
Monday, October 10, 2005, 3:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Back sometime in the 70's I read about how raw honey could be smeared on surgical amputations and there would be no infections.  I think this was done during wars, or early America, or someplace there were no other alternatives.  But, it worked.  I also read about the use of raw honey, a small drop in the eye to treat a stye.  I have used it for that purpose several times in years past, and it works admirably!  Stings like the dickens for a minute, and then stops, but the next morning the stye would be gone (and the eye would be super sticky ).

I have used it for burns and it helps, although I prefer cold water soak follow by salt for this purpose.  

That was a very interesting site on Really Raw Honey, John.  I wouldn't doubt the healing properties of honey at all, except for that one thing....candida.  Even though the enzymes might actually help digest and kill the yeast, I am concerned about the high sugars feeding them and perhaps counterbalancing the beneficial effects.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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ion
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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Victoria
I have used it for burns and it helps, although I prefer cold water soak follow by salt for this purpose.  

Victoria Have you ever heard of Saint Johns wort oil?
Maybe you know it as Saint Johns balsam.
It is red colour oil which is fantastic for burns.
It is very useful to be around the house.
I recommend.
Ion





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markyd
Monday, October 10, 2005, 4:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Okay!

I worry about the fact that honey is listed as an AVOID for O nonnies! I hear what John is saying about the heating and sugar changes. (Regrigeration changes carbos in potatoes, simplifying them into sugars by the way.) How can I, an O- nonnie with candida, get around the AVOID-ness of honey, as per Dr. D., regardless of it's state? Should I be putting AVOID sugars in my body?

Hey! I want to believe it. I think this product - in fact all bee products, are extremely powerful. Propolis is the antifungal, etc.... This product claims to have propolis in it, and it probably does, but does that offset the sugars? Are these sugars safe for candida because they're unheated?
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Hi Victoria,

from what I understand, candida is indeed a persistent and difficult fungus for human beings.  However it is very much akin to other fungi types and so, it may be just one of many, many fungi types.

So when I understand that this honey is anti-fungal, this includes candida ... unless there were specific studies that said there was an 'exception with candida'.  I've not heard of one ... not even the hint of one.  All the FEAR about the sugars in honey would actually promote candida do not make this a fact.

There are indeed two kinds of honey (and in the USA, these can both be called: raw) - one is unheated honey (these rather rare types) such as at Really Raw Honey and Don's recommended-site http://www.honeygardens.com/htherapy.html ; the other (which is at most hfs) can be heated until the honey is liquid and can be filtered.  This heating seems rather 'low', but is high enough to kill all the enzymes found naturally in the honey and also alters the chemical structure of the sugars in honey.  These altered sugars would feed candida overgrowths.  To say that 'all' honey deserves such a warning label, may actually ahave us avoid one of the best anti-fungal agents that exists.

we must be vigilant in our choosing ..........

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ISA-MANUELA
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and perhaps are there also secretors and nonnie-bees who knows
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markyd
Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 12:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Dr. D knows if it's for nonnies or not - it's in the LR4YT book and TYPEBase 4 database that way anyway. I wish John had addressed this in his post, the no honey for O and AB nonnies versus what most people think of as honey and Really Raw Honey.

As far as Candida, I just found, with the flick of a mouse of course, these websites with studies about honey and Candida, using candida honey as my search term.

Here is one site. http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/foods_view/1,1523,283,00.html

Here is a study that found in testing 3 types of raw honey from South Africa, one of them only did actually inhibit the growth of Candida after raising it initially. The others two raised it and inhibited it as well but not down to or below it's original level. However, it's unclear if it was heated at all since in the study it says that the samples were brought directly from the hive by apiarists and were "not subjected to any excessive heating." However, the methodology of this experiment, sitting 24 hours in  a tube, makes me wonder if one could possibly expect the same or similar results in the human digestive track, hardly an inert environment.

http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/pdf/2001/04/theunissen.pdf?access=ok

Otherwise, a cursory web search presented a plethora of what must be prevailing conventional wisdom about avoiding honey when suffering from Candida. John mentions "All the FEAR about the sugars in honey would actually promote candida do not make this a fact." Nor does it make it fiction - just unproven. However, the second study above shows both to be true but only after testing it specifically, depending on the honey, but not at all relating it to the environment of the human digestive track.

I guess without scientific evidence about Really Raw Honey, it's just a hunch, unless someone has actual experience with their own Candida and Really Raw Honey to report as at least anecdotal evidence.
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Victoria
Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 1:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ion,  I have heard of St. Johnswort, but I have not seen nor used the oil.  Sounds useful......anything that is good for burns must be a good thing to have around the house.

Actually, now that I think a moment, I have used an olive oil/beeswax salve that has St. Johnswort among other herbs for healing all kinds of skin irritations.

John,
These are considerations worth thinking about.  
I sure don't know the final answer on the Raw honey for candida question, but I can certainly see the difference in honey being heated even a little bit vs honey that is totally raw, and thus very rich in enzymes, among other naturally existing agents that have to be raw in order to still exist.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
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~Mary Jean Irion
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Thanks Markyd,

I had never checked the database myself ... I was relying on a post that said honey was an O (both sec and nonnie neutral).  I assume (perhaps falsely) that the rating follows the description of said product.  In this description ... the Really Raw Honey would likely fit under the 'chunky' catagorizing.  The listing at the right makes no allowance beteen heated and unheated varieties ... because the description talks about cooking with honey and re-liquifying by placing in a microwave.

I have run into this problem before ... I'm afraid Dr D does not know everything (nor have the SPACE TO WRITE ABOUT ALL THE SUBLITIES HE DOES KNOW) about all foods.  There are certain foods that undergo unusual changes while being processed these days.  Honey seems to be one of them.  Milk is another ... cabbage as sauerkraut is yet one more.  I rely somewhat on researchers from other sites and a dose of common sense.  Dr D nor I am trying to be a savior-of-mankind.  His directions for me are promising clues.  These are not doctrinaire distinctions that are rigidly followed.

If I chose to live on the 'fringe', trying to expand our diet... that's what I choose.  BTW ... all BTD is anecdotal ... when you apply certain scientific-rigidity.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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ion
Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 8:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Victoria.
I make my own.
During summer the Saint John wort is blooming.
Take the little yellow flowers with a bit of the stem an leaves but mainly flowers and place them in a bottle then you fill the bottle up with olive oil.
Let is stay under sun for a month(even less) and you have the balsam ready.
Strain it put in dark glass bottle. It lasts for ever works wonders on burns and has a lot of other uses.
I have friends that they are using it to massage their painful knees or joints. They claim is very comforting.
I try it mostly on burns.
I don't know how the flora is where you live, but if you have it, is worth trying it.
If don’t, then some hfs may have it.
With my love
Ion


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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Thanks Markyd,

I had never checked the database myself ... I was relying on a post that said honey was an O (both sec and nonnie neutral).  I assume (perhaps falsely) that the rating follows the description of said product.  In this description ... the Really Raw Honey would likely fit under the 'chunky' catagorizing.  The listing at the right makes no allowance beteen heated and unheated varieties ... because the description talks about cooking with honey and re-liquifying by placing in a microwave.

I have run into this problem before ... I'm afraid Dr D does not know everything (nor have the SPACE TO WRITE ABOUT ALL THE SUBLITIES HE DOES KNOW) about all foods.  There are certain foods that undergo unusual changes while being processed these days.  Honey seems to be one of them.  Milk is another ... cabbage as sauerkraut is yet one more.  I rely somewhat on researchers from other sites and a dose of common sense.  Dr D nor I am trying to be a savior-of-mankind.  His directions for me are promising clues.  These are not doctrinaire distinctions that are rigidly followed.

If I chose to live on the 'fringe', trying to expand our diet... that's what I choose.  BTW ... all BTD is anecdotal ... when you apply certain scientific-rigidity.

John



This is the same question as a post I had not long ago


I'm curious about how the form the food is in affects the reaction of lectins on specific blood types.  I firmly believe that a food cooked is basically an entirely different food from the same food raw which is an entirely different food from the same food sprouted or fermented.  So what form have foods been tested in?  And for example as a type A I cannot have cabbage, but can I have raw saurkraut with enzymes intact, same things go for meat, could I have raw beef or buffulo.  If sprouted wheat is ok, why wouldn't saurkraut they are undergoing the same process  




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Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 2:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Laura,

When writing anything it is quite a job deciding what should be written about and at the same time not to be too offensive and making thing very short quite often cuts off many nuances.  So I assume Dr D faces the same constraints - most folks would dismiss the work as shear folly if Dr D had written that ALL modern foods that we eat, lead to early death.  I mean, would anyone even bother reading his ideas?  And then (especially if someone else edits) many of the sublities of the ideas get thrown in the waste basket because all together these pose a distraction from the main ideas.

There is an article I read on the net  ... I had googled: neurotoxicity multiple sclerosis diet drinks.  Sure enough up pops this article that strongly points-the-blame for much of modern cases of ms in Louisianna to diet drinks.  Since the author doesn't want to be sued for defamation by Monsanto (the only firm making the ingredients for 'diet' beverages) and spending time (read: years) in court just defending himself, he has a lot of written space defending Monstanto.  So I can only bow to Dr D's courage to try this 'impossible task' of pleasing everyone.

So where does this situation leave us ... you, me and many others?  What seems right because our processing is different from modern techniques is caution.  After BTD-avoid and taking Deflect, we become quite sensitive to personal avoids ... so re-introduce small amounts of these foods but as you have processed them and see how you react.

For instance, homemade sauerkraut is packed with enzymes, etc ... but you want to see if this is a personal avoid or not ... after a sensitizing process ... try a little.  There are a wide array of  foods that seem to come under this catagory ... unheatyed honey seems to be one.  ... for this try blending it with your raw veggies ... meat/fish raw, maybe freeze them first (like what happens in winter killing parasites) and marinating with such things as clove first, then blend the raw meat with unheated honey.

I haven't tried this and know some people on this board would balk at such a suggestion.  What would be the reaction to Dr D's work, if he had written this?  ... with no science or practical anecdotal evidence ???????????

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Lamb is a good example for me, when I eat cooked lamb I get terrible gas, when I eat raw lamb it goes down magically and acts some what medicinal for me



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
Art Hoppe


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Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 6:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just bought a small jar of certified organic raw honey from my local HFS.  It is Y.S. Organic Bee Farms brand.  http://www.ysorganic.com/

I'm looking forward to trying it.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I, too just bought a jar of Really Raw Honey from Whole Foods.  I had it w/ peanut butter and Ezekiel last night.  Really good and very calming to my stomach..........


INFJ
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KimonoKat
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I've been in denial about my candida, but the spit test has brought me back to reality.

I've eliminated all grains, processed sugar, (aprox. two months) now I need to eliminate my dried fruit (dried mango is a favorite).

For a little over one week, I've been taking the following on an empty stomach, once in the morning and once before I go to bed:

2 O Polyflora
2 O Polyvite
2 Caprylic acid (400mg ea)
2 Garlic (600mg ea)
2 UDA Plus

Today, I've added 2 Bromelain to the mix.

I'm hoping I see some signifigant results in a month.  Mr. KK did the spit test, and he did have tendrils, but not nearly the mass that I have.  Mr. KK is slow on the uptake to admit that he might have candida.  He wan'ts to know of any other way to test for this.  He also wants to find on the web some photos or descriptions of what the spit should look like if there is NO candida infestation.

I think he's just unwilling to give up his  two Ezekiel hamburger buns he has each morning with his Trader Joe's chicken sausage, covered in butter.  He's emotionally attached to that food.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm hoping some of the candida experts will chime in here.

Can we have agave syrup/nectar, or is that too much carb?
Can we have vegetable glycerin?
Can we have mangos?

I read on one of the sites CarolineC posted about the diet foods acceptable, and it does say berries are okay.  So, would that mean blueberries an raspberries would be okay, even though we are supposed to give up all fruit?

TIA!


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Don
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 3:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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It is probably best to give up all fruit for a couple of weeks, then try adding back in low sugar fruits like berries. Mangos are much higher in fruit so I would skip those until the candida is fully under control.

I would skip the agave and use the vegetable glycerin.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 5:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you, Don.  

I have been having a bit of fruit occasionally.  (blueberries, raspberries) I will forgo all fruit for two weeks, starting today, and place an order for the glycerin asap.  I would like to use it to make my salad dressing that calls for honey, which is an infrequent neutral on the Arthritis program.....and there doesn't appear to be enought evidence (posted so far) that honey has a positive effect on candida.  Last time I made my salad dressing, I used agave syrup.

My protocol up to this point doesn't appear to have any effect on the candida at all, so I think letting go of all fruits for a period of time, and up my probiotic & caprylic acid to 3 capsules 2x a day will be the way to go for the next two weeks.

I may need to add one of the candida products mentioned on this thread, but I'm trying to go with Dr. D's protocol, first.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 4:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Help please.  I think I might be finally experiencing some die off symptoms.  I woke up thinking I might have a scratchy sore throat, or early flu/cold symptoms.  I feel the same amount of congestion that I normally have in the mornings.  I immedeatly gargled with tea tree oil mouth wash, and I throat feeling has pretty much disappeared.  I just feel a bit tired.  I will say, that I haven't had my lemon water yet, which is unusual.  I usually have that first thing in the morning.

I also have another symptom that has been quite anoying.  For quite some time now, I feel like I have a fuzzy feeling in my ears.  Like I have a wax build up in my ears and they need cleaned out, but they don't.  (Nothing comes out on aQ-tip.) It's almost like there is a water in my ears feeling, but it doesn't feel wet.  When I manipulate my ears, by pushing in on that little soft flap of cartlidge, it feels better for a while, but comes back later.

Could this be a candida symptom?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Thursday, March 9, 2006, 4:07pm
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JK
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 5:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I have been dealing with Candida using Nystatin and fluconazole and I am getting better. It is slow going of course. I eat 1-2 pieces of fruit a day and this does not aggravate symptoms. I have read that if you cut out all fruit then the Candida shift to a more agressive/invasive form, seeking food. According to this philosophy, as proposed by Dr. Cook and espoused by Dr. Cranton, you want to find a balance where you are eating enough fruit -- never sugar -- to keep the yeast from putting out mycelial extensions which can penetrate your tissues (like roots penetrating soil, even rock).

There's good info at this site, and I have quoted relevant text:
http://www.food-allergy.org/root3.html
"The ideal diet for patients with candidiasis is the subject of considerable debate. Several years ago, high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, on which the grams of carbohydrate may have even been counted, were used. Then Dr. William Crook began using diets higher in complex carbohydrates for his patients. Simple carbohydrates, such as fruits, were still restricted initially.22 When Dr. Crook was in Colorado in 1995, 1 heard him speak to a group of health professionals, and the question of the best diet for candidiasis was raised. Dr. Crook said that, in his many years of experience, the only absolute he had determined to be essential for the diet was that sugar had to be avoided. He said that all the NystatinTM or DiflucanTM in the world will not eradicate Candida if a patient continues to eat sugar. Recent German studies suggest that very low carbohydrate diets may be counterproductive because they cause the Candida to become invasive and penetrate deeper into the tissues in search of food.23  "

And this is the program I am following, with the exception of using two not three antifungals:  
http://drcranton.com/CFIDS.htm#CFIDS%20Paper
Candida is usually not a problem in isolation and unless the underlying problems are resolved (like finding food allergies so the immune system can settle down and "concentrate" on the Candida), one can't expect to cure Candida.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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At this point, I'm not interested in taking anti-fungal drugs. I'm doing lots of caprylic acid, garlic, UDA Plus, O Probiotic, Deflect.

Now I am even more perplexed than ever by your post.  Some recommendations say no sugar at all (and I haven't had any fruit since 3/2) and now here is some information that says some fruit is okay.

My diet is 95% compliant to the arthritis program, and that has helped those symptoms tremendously. I don't eat any grains.  As an Rh- I do best on zero grains.  I don't eat any avoids; once in a while I eat infrequent neutrals.   I'm getting about 40 minutes of brisk walking exercise 4-5x a week.

I have a feeling this is going to take months, but I'm hesitant at this time to re-introduce fruit.  


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JK
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 6:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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There are no rules and lots of opinions. I'm not interested in swaying you one way or another. I do hope you find the answers you need to go forward with whatever therapeutic plan you decide on. I just put the info there for you to see. Did you read the links?

The best we can do for ourselves is to know as much as possible about our conditions, leading to informed action. Good luck, to all of us!
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from JK
There are no rules and lots of opinions. I'm not interested in swaying you one way or another. I do hope you find the answers you need to go forward with whatever therapeutic plan you decide on. I just put the info there for you to see. Did you read the links?

The best we can do for ourselves is to know as much as possible about our conditions, leading to informed action. Good luck, to all of us!



The first link was new; the sencond link I've seen before.  I don't have a lot of variety in my diet, but I'd be really surprised to find out I'm allergic to a BTD bennie, which makes up 80% of what I eat.  (Beef, Lamb, Buffalo, Cod, Halibut, Red Snapper, Broccoli, Onions, Sweet potatoes, Romaine, Spinach, Garlic, Parsley, Ginger Walnuts, Pumpkin seeds~ the last two not much since I tend to over eat those) Neutrals I eat are carrots, green string beans, celery, lemons (lemon water in the am), almonds, water chestnuts, shrimp (rarely), eggs, chicken, shalots.  Dark Chocolate is my infrequent neutral that I've had occasionally since 12/17, but not at all in the past two weeks.

I would be willing to get allergy tested, however, I'm sure this will go over big with my mainstream HMO based MD, without some sort of "reason" to test me for allergies.  Maybe the fuzzy ear feeling will be enough to convince her. ?



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Thursday, March 9, 2006, 8:27pm
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KimonoKat
Friday, March 10, 2006, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm wondering.  I asked this on the Flush Thread:

Question:  Could someone who is dealing with candida do a flush?  Would it help or not have any effect on the candida, or, be something not to do at the same time? (treating candida)

TIA.


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Don
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I saw your other post, but was waiting to see if anyone else was going to answer.

Let me answer it this way. I started flushing while I am pretty sure I had candida. Although I didn't realize I had candida at that time. Since I didn't know I had candida at the time I can't really tell you if the flushes helped specifically with the candida or not. However, I think the flushes helped me a lot. Part of it may have been an improvement in the candida, I just don't know for sure.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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JK
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 12:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I asked a similar question a few months ago when I was considering a flush, and I forgot by whom, but was told that flushing exacerbated her Candida and it took a while to settle back down. Perhaps she'll see this post and chime in. I decided to hold off on the flush mainly because I had just experienced a gallbladder attack and didn't want to risk any stones getting caught in the plumbing!
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KimonoKat
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 3:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you both for your input. I think I might try one in a week or two, when I'm back on acceptable fruits after the 16th.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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logan
Sunday, March 12, 2006, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have done several flushes while having candida. For the first few flushes, I did use apple juice as Heidi recommended. I did have great results with the flush, but my candida #'s did go up with drinking all the apple juice. I was seeing someone for electrodermal testing at the time and after each flush the # would go up slightly.

Julie Chang recommends on her website not to use apple juice if you have candida, but to take malic acid instead for the same results. I then used the malic acid for the next few flushes, but had to have a couple glasses of vegetable juice to keep from being light-headed. It is amazing how all that apple juice fills you up.

I'm also not sure if the flushes directly helped the candida, but after each flush my liver and gallbladder #'s greatly improved. On Julia's website she goes into great detail on how important a clean liver is and so I think in the long run it has help me with the candida.

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KimonoKat
Monday, March 13, 2006, 3:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from lindaz
I have done several flushes while having candida. For the first few flushes, I did use apple juice as Heidi recommended. I did have great results with the flush, but my candida #'s did go up with drinking all the apple juice. I was seeing someone for electrodermal testing at the time and after each flush the # would go up slightly.

Julie Chang recommends on her website not to use apple juice if you have candida, but to take malic acid instead for the same results. I then used the malic acid for the next few flushes, but had to have a couple glasses of vegetable juice to keep from being light-headed. It is amazing how all that apple juice fills you up.

I'm also not sure if the flushes directly helped the candida, but after each flush my liver and gallbladder #'s greatly improved. On Julia's website she goes into great detail on how important a clean liver is and so I think in the long run it has help me with the candida.


Thank you for your response.  When I do do a flush, I'll have to find something to replace the apple juice with; I don't normally have that anyway.  Where would I find/get malic acid?


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Don
Monday, March 13, 2006, 10:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Where would I find/get malic acid?

You can get it as a supplement. Let me now if you can't find it where you normally buy your supplements from.



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Sara C
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 1:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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KimonoKat - I purchased bulk malic acid powder from Presque Isle Wine Cellars (www.piwine.com)

Logan - How much malic acid did you take? I, too, have tried flushing using apple juice &  had a terrible flairup of candida. When I tried the malic acid, though, I think I might have used too much. I had acute stomach pain & felt like I was giving myself an ulcer.
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KimonoKat
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 1:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55

You can get it as a supplement. Let me now if you can't find it where you normally buy your supplements from.



Thanks Don & Sara C; I didn't know that malic was an easily obtainable nutrient.
 
I'm not close to doing a flush yet.  Maybe another few weeks or so.  I need to investigate more (reread threads hear, and do some archive searches read other sites) and try to make some headway with the candida before hand.  

slightly off topic:  I still need to see my primary care doc about the ear infection, or whatever it is, (I don't have pain or disomfort; just feel like my ears need to pop and/or have water in them) and I'll have her look at the thrush.  I might try the HEALIX for the thrush.  I think that was one of Heidi's recommendations.  However, if the only ingredient in the HEALIX that is critical to the candida is colodial silver, then I just might get that from another cheaper source like Nature's Sunshine.

I'm also thinking about possibly just opening up several caprylic acid capsules, and putting a full teaspoon full in my mouth and swishing it around.  I just don't know if that's feasable or not.  I mean, that's the directions for using the Nystatin Powder.



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logan
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 2:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Julia Chang recommends replacing the 16oz of apple juice with "1000 - 2000mg of malic acid with 2 cups of warm water". I used 600 mg capsules of malic acid so I took 3 capsules with 2 cups of warm water each time.

I had a hard time finding just plain malic acid, but eventually found it online. The last few times a went to that website it said it was under construction, now when I go to it, the website  doesn't exist. The label on the bottle says Malic Acid 600 mg by Professional Health Products.


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JK
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The caprylic acid will taste even worse than Nystatin!! I do not think caprylic on the tongue is feasible!!! Yuck, eeeeyyeeewwwww!!

I also tried the Healix for a few months and while it seemed to help at first, it was just a waste of money in the end. Also, it acidifies the system; I couldn't maintain a proper pH while using it.
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Sara C
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Does anyone know what 1000-2000 mg. would be in teaspoons? I have the malic acid in bulk.

Also, is there an easy way to monitor our Ph levels at home?
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 10:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sara_Chirico
Does anyone know what 1000-2000 mg. would be in teaspoons? I have the malic acid in bulk.

Also, is there an easy way to monitor our Ph levels at home?


Maybe you can find an inversion program from tsp to mg on the net?

I think there are ph strips you can get at drug stores; you can test your saliva ph, and your urine ph.



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KimonoKat
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Saw my MD today.  She looked into my ears and said there's no fungus, no infection in the outer ear, and what I'm feeling is in my middle ear and in her opinion is seen in food allergies. She agreed to do blood panel food allergy testing.  I specifically wanted her to test for beef, because I certainly am going to be bummed if I am allergic.

She agreed that I did have thrush on the tongue and said that what they now do, is prescribe nystatin lozenges; however, she did not know if those had any additives or dyes or sugars in them.  I told her I wasn't ready yet to go in full blown anti fungals, but that I may come back in a month and get the diflucan (sp) and the nystatin powder prescriptions.  She said that was fine.

It was the best appointment I've had with her yet.

I suspect I might be allergic to walnuts and/or pumpkin seeds, if it's not beef.  I mean, I eat about 80% beneficials, I'm really hoping it's not something I really really love, like water chestnuts!  

I have to say, that I don't have many of the typical candida symptoms.  I think my energy level is pretty good, considering being over weight, and I am walking more; 2 miles 4-5 times a week.  I get a very manageable amount of GERD once in a while, (it's MUCH better since I've beed adding ginger to all my beef dishes) and I do get some gas right after eating but it's not a lot, and then it stops.  The only thing I've really noticed is, I do get crash tired after dinner, but that also could be because we don't have a regular dinner schedule; it depends on when Mr. KK gets home from work.  I've been eating more protein than I should at dinner, and that could be causing that also.  And, since I've stopped all fruit since 3/2, I'm a bit constipated.  I think that will change as I incorprate adding more ground flax seed into my meals.

Any thoughts from the other knowledgeable candida experts would be most appreciated.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 11:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Almost forgot to ask this.  I'm thinking about adding Dr. D's INTRINSA (sp?) to my many supplements I'm taking now.  Since buyterate (sp?) is good for helping the gut, wouldn't it help heal candida damage?  I know it's not in the protocols, but I'm thinking maybe Dr. D hasn't added to the health protocols, how this supplement  would help; if so, because it was just released to the public within the last month or so.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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Sara C
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 1:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for the nudge, KimonoKat! Can you tell I'm not too computer savy?  I did find a conversion chart that lists 1 tsp. as approximately 5 grams of dry weight.  So if I'm figuring right, the malic acid dose should be a scant 1/4 tsp to about 1/3 tsp. If so, I was definitely taking too much.

I'm still detoxing from trying the Xylitol last week, although my family is convinced I just have a bad cold. I'm not sure how to know the difference but what's coming out when using my neti pot sure looks yeast related! Once I start to feel better I'm going to try the ParaGone program.

Have you tried some Xylitol in your mouth for the thrush?
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 3:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text

Have you tried some Xylitol in your mouth for the thrush?

No, I haven't!  Now, xylitol sounds like a sugar; I must be wrong about that, correct?

Do you have any links where I can start reading about xylitol and it's status as a yeast killer.  (insert super-hero yeast fighter here lol!)

So, will you be trying a flush with malic acid anytime soon?  Would that be malic acid in water in place of the apple juice?


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Sara C
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 11:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Xylitol is a sugar alcohol but not metabolised like regular sugar. I first heard about it & it's killer aspect for candida on this forum. Check out this site for some of it's health benefits: http://www.laleva.cc/food/xylitol.html  

It seems like a wonder food: stops plaque on teeth, builds bone density, doesn't affect insulin levels, is alkaline enhancing & inhibits the sticky quality of bacteria & viruses, making it easier for you to flush them out. All of this on top of killing candida! Apparently, bad bacteria & yeast gobble it up thinking it's sugar & it kills them b/c they can't digest it. Some people may experience mild diarrhea or slight cramping when taking large amounts.

It sounds too good to be true. I keep trying to find out any down side to it. The FDA approved it in 1963 & said it has no known toxic levels, according to the above mentioned article. I admit I keep asking myself, "If it's so good for our health, why isn't it in more products?" If anyone knows of any harmful aspect of it's use, please post.

Anyway, I sure got a reaction in my sinuses when I used it -almost immediate drainage followed by major congestion, with a lot of yeast like gunk coming out when using a neti pot.

...and it really tastes like sugar - NO aftertaste!
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Sara C
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 11:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I'd like to do another flush soon, using the malic acid. I only accepted the fact that I have a candida problem a couple of weeks ago (thanks to the spit test!), so I'm trying to decide what to tackle first.

I bought some ParaGone yesterday but it suggests I do an intestinal cleanse first. Have any of you used any of Renew Life's cleansing products? I need to do a search on their ingredients to see how blood type compliant they are.
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geminisue
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 1:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sara C---Would you share where you buy the one you choose-also can you answer one question,if you know the answer.  I read that it is made from inside of a tree.  by any chance does that mean it is made from the wood alcohol from the tree, like equal is?  (I hope not)  Thanks for your information,  I hope finally we have something sweet that can help us instead of harm us.
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Sara C
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GeminiSue,
Do you mean the Xylitol? If so, I bought 1 gram packets & a 16oz container at my Whole Foods. I also found some gum yesterday at a local smaller health store. What I've purchased has been made from corn but if you do a search online you'll find the company that sells the xylitol from birch trees. They claim the taste is better & that it's not made from GMO's.

The article I mentioned above states that "xylitol is a natural substance found in fibrous vegetables & fruit, as well as in corn cobs & various hardwood trees like birch. It is a natural, intermediate product which regularly occurs in the glucose metabolism of man & other animals, as well as in the metabolism of several plants & micro-organisms. Xylitol is produced naturally in our bodies; in fact, we make up to 15 grams daily during normal metabolism."

That article said the only drawback is the diarrhea when eaten in large quantities (which could be a boon to candida sufferers!) but that your body would eventually adjust to it.

Don't eat a ton of it yet, though. My daughter found an article that said if eaten in large quantities (not sure how much that means) it can cause tumor growth. That's obviously scary! Needless to say, I'm still searching for more info on it before I consume too much.

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geminisue
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Sara C Thank You, you were a big help in my deciding whether to use it or not.  I will not even start because knowing me I would want too much of it.
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I just called the doctor's office.  The allergy tests came back "normal."  I said, "Please fax me a copy of the lab reports.  "Oh, a letter was sent out to you."  I said, in resoponse, "That's not what I asked.  There's a letter in my file.  Please fax me a copy of the reports."

I want to see specifically what they tested for.  So then I said to the nurse, "Well, since there isn't a food allergy, and I still have this problem with my ears, I'd like to see either an allergist, or an ENT."  The nurse said she would tell her.



I think the Candida has migrated up into my ear canal.  (So much for my doctor telling me that there's nothing in my ears, and that it couldn't be candida, because she looked in my ears and didn't see anything. Can I get a head slap here? ) It happened right around the time I stopped all fruit for two weeks.  Now that I've added some fruit back in, the water logged feeling in my ears has subsided somewhat.



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Drea
Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm pretty sure I have candida in my ears, too. I went to a ND several years ago for a burning smell I had in my nose (like someone left the coffee pot on the burner empty) and she diagnosed that it was candida and that it was throughout my ears and nose. She gave me a syringe and a plastic bowl and showed me how to squirt warm water in my ears to "flush" the candida out. Yep, there was definitely something coming out. She also told me that I could use hydogen peroxide to "bubble" away the yeast, and while this doesn't help with the underlying issue, it helps when my ears are "full" or if they are itching. I also use Ear Drops made by Nutri-Biotic. Ingredients: veg-gly, alcohol, graperuit extract 0.5%, and tea tree oil. That helps, too.


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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KimonoKat
Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 6:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from outdoordrea
I'm pretty sure I have candida in my ears, too. I went to a ND several years ago for a burning smell I had in my nose (like someone left the coffee pot on the burner empty) and she diagnosed that it was candida and that it was throughout my ears and nose. She gave me a syringe and a plastic bowl and showed me how to squirt warm water in my ears to "flush" the candida out. Yep, there was definitely something coming out. She also told me that I could use hydogen peroxide to "bubble" away the yeast, and while this doesn't help with the underlying issue, it helps when my ears are "full" or if they are itching. I also use Ear Drops made by Nutri-Biotic. Ingredients: veg-gly, alcohol, graperuit extract 0.5%, and tea tree oil. That helps, too.


Thank you outdoordrea!  Is the 1st ingredient listed vegetable glycerine?  I might try the hydrogen peroxide in my ears, just as an experiment.  Would hydrogen peroxide actually kill candida?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Drea
Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Thank you outdoordrea!  Is the 1st ingredient listed vegetable glycerine?  I might try the hydrogen peroxide in my ears, just as an experiment.  Would hydrogen peroxide actually kill candida?


There are many people who disagree with this method, but it does help my ears to stop itching. All I can really say on that front is that before I used the hp, my ear flushes produced gunk, and now they don't, even though they do still itch (I'm pretty sure it's food triggered, but I haven't taken the time to narrow it down - mostly because I am lazy and the Nutribiotic ear drops and hp helps).

The ingredients I listed in my last post are in order of the way they are listed on the bottle of NutriBiotic Ear Drops (I got them from my HFS).



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KimonoKat
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Okay, the fax of the test came through.  They only tested me for a few foods.

Codfish, Shrimp, Corn, Peanut, Egg White, Milk, Wheat, Soybean, Scallop, Walnut, Clam, Beef.  That's it.

The immunoglobulin A (IGA) in serum was 411 (reference range is (81-463 )
The immunoglobulin E (IGE) in serum was 97 (reference range is <100 )



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KimonoKat
Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 10:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, now I'm so mad I could go strangle my doctor.

Her office called me back and said they needed the name of my pharmacy.  I'm like WHAT?  My doctor is writing a prescription.  The doctor will not refer me to a specialist until I take this medication (I have no idea what it is), and see if it clears up my ear problem.  If it doesn't work, THEN she'll refer me to a specialist.  I told her nurse I am NOT HAPPY with this, and I will NOT take a medication because she doesn't want to spend the HMO money to refer me out to a specialist.





Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 10:32pm
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 30, 2006, 1:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can't believe I forgot about this.  Well, it has been quite a few years lol!

I stopped by my herbalist to pick up more caprylic acid, and I was asking her if I could put the caprylic acid capsules on my tongue. She didn't recommend it; thought it would burn my tongue; she suggested Pau D'Arco for that.  I told her I had to think about it.  I wasn't sure if that herb was okay for Type O's.

A trip down memory lane in the old message board archives stopped me short.  What a head slap that was.  I took Pau D'Arco the first time I was dx'd with systemic candida, and was recommending it to others on the board.  I think the candida has seeped into my brain lol!

So, I think I will be back in her office tomorrow, picking up a few bottles and trying it again.



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Lola
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KimonoKat
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Quoted from lola


Well, that's one of about 20 that I posted lol!


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Drea
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Quoted from outdoordrea


There are many people who disagree with this method, but it does help my ears to stop itching. All I can really say on that front is that before I used the hp, my ear flushes produced gunk, and now they don't, even though they do still itch (I'm pretty sure it's food triggered, but I haven't taken the time to narrow it down - mostly because I am lazy and the Nutribiotic ear drops and hp helps).

The ingredients I listed in my last post are in order of the way they are listed on the bottle of NutriBiotic Ear Drops (I got them from my HFS).


I'd like to add to this post...I woke up early this morning and both my ears were itching like crazy and both of them were almost swollen shut. The Nutribiotic ear drops and the hydrogen peroxide were not doing the trick this time. Then I remembered reading a post by Dr. D about using olive oil with a little crushed garlic, and got up to make some. The swelling is still there, but the itch went away enough for me to fall back to sleeep. I just dabbed a little oil into each ear with a q-tip, but after a few days of the garlic seeping into the oil I'm going to strain it and put the oil into a glass jar with an eye dropper.


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.
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