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Candida spit test/Candida detoxing - II  This thread currently has 21,834 views. Print Print Thread
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Don
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 3:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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It is probably best to give up all fruit for a couple of weeks, then try adding back in low sugar fruits like berries. Mangos are much higher in fruit so I would skip those until the candida is fully under control.

I would skip the agave and use the vegetable glycerin.


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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 2, 2006, 5:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you, Don.  

I have been having a bit of fruit occasionally.  (blueberries, raspberries) I will forgo all fruit for two weeks, starting today, and place an order for the glycerin asap.  I would like to use it to make my salad dressing that calls for honey, which is an infrequent neutral on the Arthritis program.....and there doesn't appear to be enought evidence (posted so far) that honey has a positive effect on candida.  Last time I made my salad dressing, I used agave syrup.

My protocol up to this point doesn't appear to have any effect on the candida at all, so I think letting go of all fruits for a period of time, and up my probiotic & caprylic acid to 3 capsules 2x a day will be the way to go for the next two weeks.

I may need to add one of the candida products mentioned on this thread, but I'm trying to go with Dr. D's protocol, first.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 4:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Help please.  I think I might be finally experiencing some die off symptoms.  I woke up thinking I might have a scratchy sore throat, or early flu/cold symptoms.  I feel the same amount of congestion that I normally have in the mornings.  I immedeatly gargled with tea tree oil mouth wash, and I throat feeling has pretty much disappeared.  I just feel a bit tired.  I will say, that I haven't had my lemon water yet, which is unusual.  I usually have that first thing in the morning.

I also have another symptom that has been quite anoying.  For quite some time now, I feel like I have a fuzzy feeling in my ears.  Like I have a wax build up in my ears and they need cleaned out, but they don't.  (Nothing comes out on aQ-tip.) It's almost like there is a water in my ears feeling, but it doesn't feel wet.  When I manipulate my ears, by pushing in on that little soft flap of cartlidge, it feels better for a while, but comes back later.

Could this be a candida symptom?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Thursday, March 9, 2006, 4:07pm
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JK
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 5:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I have been dealing with Candida using Nystatin and fluconazole and I am getting better. It is slow going of course. I eat 1-2 pieces of fruit a day and this does not aggravate symptoms. I have read that if you cut out all fruit then the Candida shift to a more agressive/invasive form, seeking food. According to this philosophy, as proposed by Dr. Cook and espoused by Dr. Cranton, you want to find a balance where you are eating enough fruit -- never sugar -- to keep the yeast from putting out mycelial extensions which can penetrate your tissues (like roots penetrating soil, even rock).

There's good info at this site, and I have quoted relevant text:
http://www.food-allergy.org/root3.html
"The ideal diet for patients with candidiasis is the subject of considerable debate. Several years ago, high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, on which the grams of carbohydrate may have even been counted, were used. Then Dr. William Crook began using diets higher in complex carbohydrates for his patients. Simple carbohydrates, such as fruits, were still restricted initially.22 When Dr. Crook was in Colorado in 1995, 1 heard him speak to a group of health professionals, and the question of the best diet for candidiasis was raised. Dr. Crook said that, in his many years of experience, the only absolute he had determined to be essential for the diet was that sugar had to be avoided. He said that all the NystatinTM or DiflucanTM in the world will not eradicate Candida if a patient continues to eat sugar. Recent German studies suggest that very low carbohydrate diets may be counterproductive because they cause the Candida to become invasive and penetrate deeper into the tissues in search of food.23  "

And this is the program I am following, with the exception of using two not three antifungals:  
http://drcranton.com/CFIDS.htm#CFIDS%20Paper
Candida is usually not a problem in isolation and unless the underlying problems are resolved (like finding food allergies so the immune system can settle down and "concentrate" on the Candida), one can't expect to cure Candida.
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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At this point, I'm not interested in taking anti-fungal drugs. I'm doing lots of caprylic acid, garlic, UDA Plus, O Probiotic, Deflect.

Now I am even more perplexed than ever by your post.  Some recommendations say no sugar at all (and I haven't had any fruit since 3/2) and now here is some information that says some fruit is okay.

My diet is 95% compliant to the arthritis program, and that has helped those symptoms tremendously. I don't eat any grains.  As an Rh- I do best on zero grains.  I don't eat any avoids; once in a while I eat infrequent neutrals.   I'm getting about 40 minutes of brisk walking exercise 4-5x a week.

I have a feeling this is going to take months, but I'm hesitant at this time to re-introduce fruit.  


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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JK
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 6:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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There are no rules and lots of opinions. I'm not interested in swaying you one way or another. I do hope you find the answers you need to go forward with whatever therapeutic plan you decide on. I just put the info there for you to see. Did you read the links?

The best we can do for ourselves is to know as much as possible about our conditions, leading to informed action. Good luck, to all of us!
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KimonoKat
Thursday, March 9, 2006, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from JK
There are no rules and lots of opinions. I'm not interested in swaying you one way or another. I do hope you find the answers you need to go forward with whatever therapeutic plan you decide on. I just put the info there for you to see. Did you read the links?

The best we can do for ourselves is to know as much as possible about our conditions, leading to informed action. Good luck, to all of us!



The first link was new; the sencond link I've seen before.  I don't have a lot of variety in my diet, but I'd be really surprised to find out I'm allergic to a BTD bennie, which makes up 80% of what I eat.  (Beef, Lamb, Buffalo, Cod, Halibut, Red Snapper, Broccoli, Onions, Sweet potatoes, Romaine, Spinach, Garlic, Parsley, Ginger Walnuts, Pumpkin seeds~ the last two not much since I tend to over eat those) Neutrals I eat are carrots, green string beans, celery, lemons (lemon water in the am), almonds, water chestnuts, shrimp (rarely), eggs, chicken, shalots.  Dark Chocolate is my infrequent neutral that I've had occasionally since 12/17, but not at all in the past two weeks.

I would be willing to get allergy tested, however, I'm sure this will go over big with my mainstream HMO based MD, without some sort of "reason" to test me for allergies.  Maybe the fuzzy ear feeling will be enough to convince her. ?



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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KimonoKat  -  Thursday, March 9, 2006, 8:27pm
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KimonoKat
Friday, March 10, 2006, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm wondering.  I asked this on the Flush Thread:

Question:  Could someone who is dealing with candida do a flush?  Would it help or not have any effect on the candida, or, be something not to do at the same time? (treating candida)

TIA.


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Don
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 12:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I saw your other post, but was waiting to see if anyone else was going to answer.

Let me answer it this way. I started flushing while I am pretty sure I had candida. Although I didn't realize I had candida at that time. Since I didn't know I had candida at the time I can't really tell you if the flushes helped specifically with the candida or not. However, I think the flushes helped me a lot. Part of it may have been an improvement in the candida, I just don't know for sure.


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JK
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 12:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I asked a similar question a few months ago when I was considering a flush, and I forgot by whom, but was told that flushing exacerbated her Candida and it took a while to settle back down. Perhaps she'll see this post and chime in. I decided to hold off on the flush mainly because I had just experienced a gallbladder attack and didn't want to risk any stones getting caught in the plumbing!
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KimonoKat
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 3:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you both for your input. I think I might try one in a week or two, when I'm back on acceptable fruits after the 16th.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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logan
Sunday, March 12, 2006, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have done several flushes while having candida. For the first few flushes, I did use apple juice as Heidi recommended. I did have great results with the flush, but my candida #'s did go up with drinking all the apple juice. I was seeing someone for electrodermal testing at the time and after each flush the # would go up slightly.

Julie Chang recommends on her website not to use apple juice if you have candida, but to take malic acid instead for the same results. I then used the malic acid for the next few flushes, but had to have a couple glasses of vegetable juice to keep from being light-headed. It is amazing how all that apple juice fills you up.

I'm also not sure if the flushes directly helped the candida, but after each flush my liver and gallbladder #'s greatly improved. On Julia's website she goes into great detail on how important a clean liver is and so I think in the long run it has help me with the candida.

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KimonoKat  -  Sunday, March 12, 2006, 3:43pm
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KimonoKat
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Quoted from lindaz
I have done several flushes while having candida. For the first few flushes, I did use apple juice as Heidi recommended. I did have great results with the flush, but my candida #'s did go up with drinking all the apple juice. I was seeing someone for electrodermal testing at the time and after each flush the # would go up slightly.

Julie Chang recommends on her website not to use apple juice if you have candida, but to take malic acid instead for the same results. I then used the malic acid for the next few flushes, but had to have a couple glasses of vegetable juice to keep from being light-headed. It is amazing how all that apple juice fills you up.

I'm also not sure if the flushes directly helped the candida, but after each flush my liver and gallbladder #'s greatly improved. On Julia's website she goes into great detail on how important a clean liver is and so I think in the long run it has help me with the candida.


Thank you for your response.  When I do do a flush, I'll have to find something to replace the apple juice with; I don't normally have that anyway.  Where would I find/get malic acid?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Don
Monday, March 13, 2006, 10:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KimonoKat
Where would I find/get malic acid?

You can get it as a supplement. Let me now if you can't find it where you normally buy your supplements from.



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Sara C
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 1:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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KimonoKat - I purchased bulk malic acid powder from Presque Isle Wine Cellars (www.piwine.com)

Logan - How much malic acid did you take? I, too, have tried flushing using apple juice &  had a terrible flairup of candida. When I tried the malic acid, though, I think I might have used too much. I had acute stomach pain & felt like I was giving myself an ulcer.
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KimonoKat
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Quoted from ironwood55

You can get it as a supplement. Let me now if you can't find it where you normally buy your supplements from.



Thanks Don & Sara C; I didn't know that malic was an easily obtainable nutrient.
 
I'm not close to doing a flush yet.  Maybe another few weeks or so.  I need to investigate more (reread threads hear, and do some archive searches read other sites) and try to make some headway with the candida before hand.  

slightly off topic:  I still need to see my primary care doc about the ear infection, or whatever it is, (I don't have pain or disomfort; just feel like my ears need to pop and/or have water in them) and I'll have her look at the thrush.  I might try the HEALIX for the thrush.  I think that was one of Heidi's recommendations.  However, if the only ingredient in the HEALIX that is critical to the candida is colodial silver, then I just might get that from another cheaper source like Nature's Sunshine.

I'm also thinking about possibly just opening up several caprylic acid capsules, and putting a full teaspoon full in my mouth and swishing it around.  I just don't know if that's feasable or not.  I mean, that's the directions for using the Nystatin Powder.



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logan
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 2:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Julia Chang recommends replacing the 16oz of apple juice with "1000 - 2000mg of malic acid with 2 cups of warm water". I used 600 mg capsules of malic acid so I took 3 capsules with 2 cups of warm water each time.

I had a hard time finding just plain malic acid, but eventually found it online. The last few times a went to that website it said it was under construction, now when I go to it, the website  doesn't exist. The label on the bottle says Malic Acid 600 mg by Professional Health Products.


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JK
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The caprylic acid will taste even worse than Nystatin!! I do not think caprylic on the tongue is feasible!!! Yuck, eeeeyyeeewwwww!!

I also tried the Healix for a few months and while it seemed to help at first, it was just a waste of money in the end. Also, it acidifies the system; I couldn't maintain a proper pH while using it.
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Sara C
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Does anyone know what 1000-2000 mg. would be in teaspoons? I have the malic acid in bulk.

Also, is there an easy way to monitor our Ph levels at home?
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KimonoKat
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Quoted from Sara_Chirico
Does anyone know what 1000-2000 mg. would be in teaspoons? I have the malic acid in bulk.

Also, is there an easy way to monitor our Ph levels at home?


Maybe you can find an inversion program from tsp to mg on the net?

I think there are ph strips you can get at drug stores; you can test your saliva ph, and your urine ph.



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KimonoKat
Wednesday, March 15, 2006, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Saw my MD today.  She looked into my ears and said there's no fungus, no infection in the outer ear, and what I'm feeling is in my middle ear and in her opinion is seen in food allergies. She agreed to do blood panel food allergy testing.  I specifically wanted her to test for beef, because I certainly am going to be bummed if I am allergic.

She agreed that I did have thrush on the tongue and said that what they now do, is prescribe nystatin lozenges; however, she did not know if those had any additives or dyes or sugars in them.  I told her I wasn't ready yet to go in full blown anti fungals, but that I may come back in a month and get the diflucan (sp) and the nystatin powder prescriptions.  She said that was fine.

It was the best appointment I've had with her yet.

I suspect I might be allergic to walnuts and/or pumpkin seeds, if it's not beef.  I mean, I eat about 80% beneficials, I'm really hoping it's not something I really really love, like water chestnuts!  

I have to say, that I don't have many of the typical candida symptoms.  I think my energy level is pretty good, considering being over weight, and I am walking more; 2 miles 4-5 times a week.  I get a very manageable amount of GERD once in a while, (it's MUCH better since I've beed adding ginger to all my beef dishes) and I do get some gas right after eating but it's not a lot, and then it stops.  The only thing I've really noticed is, I do get crash tired after dinner, but that also could be because we don't have a regular dinner schedule; it depends on when Mr. KK gets home from work.  I've been eating more protein than I should at dinner, and that could be causing that also.  And, since I've stopped all fruit since 3/2, I'm a bit constipated.  I think that will change as I incorprate adding more ground flax seed into my meals.

Any thoughts from the other knowledgeable candida experts would be most appreciated.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
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Kyosha Nim
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Almost forgot to ask this.  I'm thinking about adding Dr. D's INTRINSA (sp?) to my many supplements I'm taking now.  Since buyterate (sp?) is good for helping the gut, wouldn't it help heal candida damage?  I know it's not in the protocols, but I'm thinking maybe Dr. D hasn't added to the health protocols, how this supplement  would help; if so, because it was just released to the public within the last month or so.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.

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Sara C
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 1:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for the nudge, KimonoKat! Can you tell I'm not too computer savy?  I did find a conversion chart that lists 1 tsp. as approximately 5 grams of dry weight.  So if I'm figuring right, the malic acid dose should be a scant 1/4 tsp to about 1/3 tsp. If so, I was definitely taking too much.

I'm still detoxing from trying the Xylitol last week, although my family is convinced I just have a bad cold. I'm not sure how to know the difference but what's coming out when using my neti pot sure looks yeast related! Once I start to feel better I'm going to try the ParaGone program.

Have you tried some Xylitol in your mouth for the thrush?
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KimonoKat
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Quoted Text

Have you tried some Xylitol in your mouth for the thrush?

No, I haven't!  Now, xylitol sounds like a sugar; I must be wrong about that, correct?

Do you have any links where I can start reading about xylitol and it's status as a yeast killer.  (insert super-hero yeast fighter here lol!)

So, will you be trying a flush with malic acid anytime soon?  Would that be malic acid in water in place of the apple juice?


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Sara C
Thursday, March 16, 2006, 11:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Xylitol is a sugar alcohol but not metabolised like regular sugar. I first heard about it & it's killer aspect for candida on this forum. Check out this site for some of it's health benefits: http://www.laleva.cc/food/xylitol.html  

It seems like a wonder food: stops plaque on teeth, builds bone density, doesn't affect insulin levels, is alkaline enhancing & inhibits the sticky quality of bacteria & viruses, making it easier for you to flush them out. All of this on top of killing candida! Apparently, bad bacteria & yeast gobble it up thinking it's sugar & it kills them b/c they can't digest it. Some people may experience mild diarrhea or slight cramping when taking large amounts.

It sounds too good to be true. I keep trying to find out any down side to it. The FDA approved it in 1963 & said it has no known toxic levels, according to the above mentioned article. I admit I keep asking myself, "If it's so good for our health, why isn't it in more products?" If anyone knows of any harmful aspect of it's use, please post.

Anyway, I sure got a reaction in my sinuses when I used it -almost immediate drainage followed by major congestion, with a lot of yeast like gunk coming out when using a neti pot.

...and it really tastes like sugar - NO aftertaste!
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