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Kimchi  This thread currently has 1,619 views. Print Print Thread
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gulfcoastguy
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I just at at the local chinese resteraunt. If you pick carefully you can stay allmost complient. Today they had "Korean Kimchee" added to the buffet. I normally love the stuff. Today I took one bite and had to use the napkin, somebody had dumped a whole bottle of sesame oil into the bin it seems. (sesame is a bit no no for B's)
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passionprincess
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am of Korean descent and my parents are first generation Korean immigrants. Authentic Korean kimchee does NOT have sesame oil! Ugh. I am sorry for getting upset but I am so sick and tired of people "Americanizing" ethnic foods and trying to pass them off as being authentic!

We had a kimchee and cultured veggie thread on this forum a while back. I made Korean kimchee GTD nomad style. I used regular cabbage and savoy cabbages. Add some sea salt,  Korean pepper, a bit of rice flour and water (I used milk kefir instead - the rice flour and water is to feed the probiotics so they can propagate and ferment), and garlic. I threw in some onions and a tiny bit of apple cider to help the probiotics along but that was it. The onions and apple cider are not authentic.

Seeing that you are in MS, I am so sorry you ate inauthentic Kimchee. Many times, Korean women who settled in the area were G.I. brides who did not have much of a culinary background but decided to open up Korean restaurants. I am not saying only people with culinary backgrounds should open restaurants but labeling something as originating from a specific country or location and not following traditions is just wrong! Same thing happened in the area where I went to grad school. The woman's Korean restaurant had such bad Korean food, I walked out after one bite. Her veggies were going bad yet her non-Korean customers could not tell the difference.


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gulfcoastguy
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 7:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That makes two chinese resteraunts(run by vietnamese-americans) in the area that have "kimchee". I love the other although I couldn't tell you if it is really authentic. But sesame oil? Bleah!!!
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passionprincess
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I never liked sesame oil, period.

Vietnamese-Americans serving "Korean" kimchi? Great.

Kimchi or (kimchee) is very easy to make at home. If you want the recipe, let me know.


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gulfcoastguy
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 7:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks, maybe later or you could post it on recipebase?
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passionprincess
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 9:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sure will. The only time sesame oil is ever used on kimchee is when kimchee fried rice is being made or kimchee fritters. I was a bit shocked to hear about it. I would not want to drizzle pickles or fresh sauerkraut with oil... ick.


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purlgirl
Tuesday, March 20, 2012, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from passionprincess
I never liked sesame oil, period.

Vietnamese-Americans serving "Korean" kimchi? Great.

Kimchi or (kimchee) is very easy to make at home. If you want the recipe, let me know.


I think there are quite a few of us here who would like your recipe and wisdom on making Kimchi.  
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 6:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Being that this was kimchee on a buffet table, it's also possible that another customer accidentally spilled something into the bin that wasn't originally in there.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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passionprincess
Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 10:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If that were the case, then, no fault on the restaurant. However, if that is not the case, then, ugh (just plain disgust).

http://vegan8korean.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/welcome-kimchi/

Nomad Modification - 1 gallon jar; please adjust portions to make less!

Ingredients:
2 – 3 heads of large napa cabbage (more if smaller)I used regular cabbage or savoy cabbage
1 & 1/2 cups of coarse salt (approximately, from an Asian grocery store) Sea Salt is fine

Sauce Ingredients: (Feel free to use more or less of any of these ingredients to your liking!)
1 – 2 large bulbs of garlic
1 cup of red pepper powder (kochukaru) Do NOT use cayenne pepper; totally different in taste and texture
1 small knob of ginger
3-4 chopped large green onions (or 3-4 bunches of small green onions)Feel free to omit;
1-2 medium Korean radish (cut into matchsticks)Feel free to omit
1/2 cup of glutinous rice water (2 tablespoon of glutinous rice powder with 1/2 cup of water)I used brown rice flour with milk kefir; this is to "feed" the probiotics for fermentation
1/2 Tbs or more of kelp powder Omitted; might be okay for other types that can have seaweed and sea veggies
1/2 Tbs of vegan mushroom oyster sauce (optional, we use the Wan Ja Shan brand, it can enhance the flavor, but you really do not want to use too much of this, as it will ruin the kimchi)OMITTED
1 cup of Asian pear ground (optional)You can use a bit of apple juice - 1/4 cup is sufficient - for feeding probiotics during fermentation process
3 Tbs of Sugar (optional, I like to use a bit to soften the flavor)Omitted, especially if you are using apple juice

Directions:

Wash the cabbage and cut in quarters lengthwise. If desired, cut into smaller chunks (appropriate size to grab with your chopsticks). Put cabbage in a very large bowl and mix with 1 & 1/2cup or more of salt thoroughly and let it sit for around one hour or longer until you see the cabbage wilted.
Dice (we use our food processor) the garlic and ginger. Mix all the sauce ingredients. It shouldn’t be too dry. If too dry, add a bit of water water.
Mix it well with hand. If you don’t use gloves, you’re going to feel a serious tingle from the pepper powder and be sure to keep those fingers away from your eyes and nose! Taste it and add more salt or sugar so it tastes good to your palate, it should be salty and spicy enough for you to think it’s tasty – but not be too salty or too sweet.
If the salted cabbage is slightly wilted, take the cabbage and rinse and squeeze out the water very well at least 2-3 times. The more times you rinse it, the less salty the taste will be. Taste a leaf from each quarter. It should be salted enough, but not too salty. Obviously, the more salt you add when soaking will also impact how salty the kimchi is, so you can add more or less based on your taste. Make sure to squeeze out the water very well – you might want to let it drain overnight like many Koreans do.
Use your hands to mix the paste in very well with the cabbage. Get to every little section/piece of cabbage! The more paste to cabbage, the spicier/stronger flavor your kimchi will be.
Place your kimchi into your jar and fill close to the top.

My comments
  • Wash cabbage and cut into bite-size pieces

  • Salt it and let it wilt (this process is used to take the water out of the cabbage so it can absorb the pepper sauce - you can massage the cabbage, let it sit for an hour or two - prepare the pepper sauce in the meantime); "turn" the cabbage mixture once or twice during the 1-2 hour wilting session so the salt mixes evenly. I let my cabbage wilt overnight before and it was perfectly fine!

  • Mix apple juice, rice water mixture, pepper powder, and garlic and ginger into a bowl or cup (I liked to throw everything into a blender)

  • Pour the sauce onto the wilted cabbage - try and make sure the sauce covers each piece

  • Put the mixed kimchee in a CLEAN jar.

  • Let the jar sit out at room temp for a few days. The leaves will start to look translucent as fermentation and probiotic propagation happens.

  • Enjoy!


Quoted from ruthiegirl
Being that this was kimchee on a buffet table, it's also possible that another customer accidentally spilled something into the bin that wasn't originally in there.


Simplifying my life. Only the best for my body, mind, and soul!

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gulfcoastguy
Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 11:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Being that this was kimchee on a buffet table, it's also possible that another customer accidentally spilled something into the bin that wasn't originally in there.


There were no loose bottles or bins of sesame oil there.
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gulfcoastguy
Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 11:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Princess, on page 278 of my genotype diet book it says that sea vegetable, kelp is a superfood. Radish however is a black dot. I'm going to have to look for the seed for this korean pepper for next years garden. I might try the oriental market for a local source though.
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san j
Thursday, March 22, 2012, 1:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from passionprincess
...I was a bit shocked to hear about it. I would not want to drizzle pickles or fresh sauerkraut with oil... ick.


I think of pickles.
Pickle relish on cheeseburgers.
Pickles on meat sandwiches at the delicatessen.
Pickle relish as an ingredient in composed salads, such as egg salad or potato salad: There's mayonnaise all over your pickles (or vice versa)!
People do like fat (dairy fat / animal fat) in conjunction with pickles.

I think of sauerkraut.
People do like it on or with hot dogs/ sausages, which contain plenty of fat.


My guess is that there are customers who actually like sesame oil on their kimchee.
There's no accounting for taste.


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Revision History (2 edits)
san j  -  Thursday, March 22, 2012, 3:12am
san j  -  Thursday, March 22, 2012, 3:11am
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passionprincess
Thursday, March 22, 2012, 5:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I do not care if people have personal preference in terms of putting oil on their kimchee. That is their business. However, Korean kimchee (as labeled) does NOT have oil in it!

Recipe from above
1. I did not have my GTD book on me so I could not remember if kelp was good or not.
2. Traditional kimchee did not have all the "embellishments" nor additions. It was a very simple napa cabbage fermentation. Vegetables and condiments changed according to region (the southern part used seafood paste - shrimp sauce, etc.) while the northern part use less pepper powder and made a form of "white" kimchee (similar to beet kvass).

I am just tired of seeing people call things an authentically ethnic while adding condiments out of nowhere. Nothing wrong with fusion since it is an exercise in creativity. I am all for it. Just don't call it Korean kimchee or kimchi if you are going to throw in sesame oil! My parents were shocked when I asked them if kimchee has sesame oil in it. Thank God, I did not ask my great-aunt who was a specialist in traditional Korean literature and culture!


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passionprincess
Thursday, March 22, 2012, 5:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Last time I checked, you could purchase Korean kimchee pepper powder from an online Korean grocery.

As for growing and drying your own pepper powder, I saw my granny do it before but she has long passed away. Mom has her friends send Korean pepper powder from Korea. Just beware of buying pepper from China. Chinese pepper tastes different but companies will package if and pass it off as Korean pepper powder.

Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Princess, on page 278 of my genotype diet book it says that sea vegetable, kelp is a superfood. Radish however is a black dot. I'm going to have to look for the seed for this korean pepper for next years garden. I might try the oriental market for a local source though.




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purlgirl
Friday, March 23, 2012, 9:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for sharing your recipe.

A few Questions

Is Korean Radish  the same as Daikon Radish ?   (temp avoid )

Paprika is the only pepper on my approved list  - do you think it would do?

Irish Moss, Wakame & Spirulina are my only sea veg choices   - would any work or just skip?
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cajun
Saturday, March 24, 2012, 12:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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PP,
Thanks for sharing your recipe...and I totally get your frustration!
Its about respect for tradition. If its fusion then, fine, just be sure to label it as such.
My oldest son's girlfriend ( soon to be fiance  ) is first generation Chinese. Her fathers family is from Taiwan, her mothers family is from China by way of Vietnam. They have incredible stories of coming here. The only languages they share are Mandarin and English but only because the father taught the mother Mandarin. The interesting thing is they speak several languages between them and eat an Asian variety of foods!
They live in a Los Angeles suburb that is mostly Asian with many good restaurants. She is a foodie and they try different ones all the time, but she especially enjoys the Korean ones!


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passionprincess
Sunday, March 25, 2012, 3:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi!

Korean radish = daikon radish. However, for napa cabbage or cabbage kimchee, you do not need to add daikon radish (this person just preferred using it).

Hmmm a bunch of us here decided to rate Korean pepper powder as a neutral because it was not rated. Korean pepper powder is different from paprika and cayenne powder. I do not really have a good answer.

Actually, my granny and mother never made kimchee with any sea veggies or seaweeds. I did not really pay attention to this recipe when I first used it so I missed the sea veggie part. To this day, I have never seen any authentic Korean kimchee with sea veggies or seaweed in it. So, I was a bit surprised. You can skip it altogether.

Quoted from purlgirl
Thanks for sharing your recipe.

A few Questions

Is Korean Radish  the same as Daikon Radish ?   (temp avoid )

Paprika is the only pepper on my approved list  - do you think it would do?

Irish Moss, Wakame & Spirulina are my only sea veg choices   - would any work or just skip?




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Food: Diamonds > Superfood > Neutrals > Black Dots > Avoids
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passionprincess
Sunday, March 25, 2012, 3:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Congrats to your son and family! How exciting. Engagements and weddings are always fun.

I appreciate fusion and any sort of creative food endeavors. However, claiming something is authentic by adding a regional label when the food or other item does not follow it is just wrong. No need to misinform people. If that "Korean" kimchi was the only kimchi, they ever tried, they would assume that all Korean kimchi had sesame oil in it. Ick.

Quoted from cajun
PP,
Thanks for sharing your recipe...and I totally get your frustration!
Its about respect for tradition. If its fusion then, fine, just be sure to label it as such.
My oldest son's girlfriend ( soon to be fiance  ) is first generation Chinese. Her fathers family is from Taiwan, her mothers family is from China by way of Vietnam. They have incredible stories of coming here. The only languages they share are Mandarin and English but only because the father taught the mother Mandarin. The interesting thing is they speak several languages between them and eat an Asian variety of foods!
They live in a Los Angeles suburb that is mostly Asian with many good restaurants. She is a foodie and they try different ones all the time, but she especially enjoys the Korean ones!




Simplifying my life. Only the best for my body, mind, and soul!

Food: Diamonds > Superfood > Neutrals > Black Dots > Avoids
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passionprincess
Sunday, March 25, 2012, 4:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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White Kimchee recipe (does not use pepper powder)
http://www.koreataste.org/lang/en/en/blogging-en/a-mixture-of-modern-and-tradition-baek-kimchi/

*my comments are bolded
Ingredients for salting:
1 head of Chinese cabbage (in Poland it’s called a Beijing cabbage),
1/2 of radish (cut into thin stripes) - optional
1 1/4 cup of salt,
8 cups of water.

Ingredients for sauce:
1 tablespoon of salt,
1/2 of pear (cut into thin stripes), optional; Asian pear has a sweet, crisp flavor which is different from Bosc or D'anjou pears. Try and substitute with Honeycrisp Apples
5 jujube fruits (cut into thin stripes), optional; adds a slightly sweet tone - can use apples instead
1 teaspoon of pine nuts, optional
a few chilli strips, optional - more for decoration
2,5cm of ginger (cut into thin slices).

This is a very refreshing kimchee that is more similar to a beet kvass. Since the kimchee "broth" is clearish brine and fermented, Koreans would drink the liquid after a night of drinking to soothe their stomachs.

Enjoy!


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purlgirl
Sunday, March 25, 2012, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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PP
thank you for answering my questions.

White Kimchee sounds like it will fit better with my allowable foods.  

I  love peppers but they cause me pain later     just not worth it
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passionprincess
Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can't eat too spicy in spite of being Korean American. . My kimchees are quite mild or I end up downing tons of water with my meal. Peppers are superfoods for Nomads but oh well... it is an acquired taste.

I hope you enjoy it!

Quoted from purlgirl
PP
thank you for answering my questions.

White Kimchee sounds like it will fit better with my allowable foods.  

I  love peppers but they cause me pain later     just not worth it



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TJ
Friday, March 30, 2012, 9:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Do you know what the red pepper powder is made of, i.e. the kind of pepper?
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Henriette Bsec
Friday, March 30, 2012, 9:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Do you know what the red pepper powder is made of, i.e. the kind of pepper?

I found this
http://www.mykoreandiet.com/in.....t-pepper-powder.html
Don´t know IF PP agree with it  

Thanks for you recipees.

I undertand totally your feelings regrading mixed up etnic food- I am the same when I see weird takes on danish food like. Danish pastry that are totally different than what we make.


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san j
Saturday, March 31, 2012, 1:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Some dishes are "works in progress". I think of cuisines that are evolving due to various migrations. Then again, new styles and trends really do take hold. Every "traditional" dish started somewhere, and it didn't always leave the starting gate the way you're enjoying it today.

I like trying new dishes. Some of them work for me.  

I also appreciate freedom to experiment in the kitchen. As a chef, however, I did feel responsible to patrons, to let the menu/server explain that we were offering a new take on an old favorite, for instance.


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passionprincess
Saturday, March 31, 2012, 2:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There are tons of packaged Korean pepper powder out there. Mom gets them directly from Korea or makes sure the ones she buys here in the States is from Korea and not other countries. The Korean pepper variety is what has the spicy but sweet flavor.

I do not know the exact name of the pepper, though.

San j - I totally LOVE fusion and experimental cuisine. Like you, I do not appreciate being misled by labels.


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TJ
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I bought some "Korean" red pepper powder today at a Korean grocery.  The clerk said it was grown in China but processed in the USA.  I don't know that many other places to buy it, so I bought that one and started my batch of kimchi today.  You'd need a washtub for all that stuff in your recipe!  Three heads of cabbage?  I just used one and it was plenty. That made over a gallon.
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passionprincess
Saturday, March 31, 2012, 5:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yeah, I only make kimchee with one head at a time. I hope the pepper tastes sweet. They should not have marked the pepper powder as being Korean if it originated from China. Oh well.

You might want to play around with the amount of pepper - it might be too spicy for you (if you are not used to spicy stuff).

Enjoy!

Quoted from TJ
I bought some "Korean" red pepper powder today at a Korean grocery.  The clerk said it was grown in China but processed in the USA.  I don't know that many other places to buy it, so I bought that one and started my batch of kimchi today.  You'd need a washtub for all that stuff in your recipe!  Three heads of cabbage?  I just used one and it was plenty. That made over a gallon.




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