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Open invitation to a Pity Party  This thread currently has 3,508 views. Print Print Thread
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Chloe
Thursday, May 19, 2011, 8:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,092
Gender: Female
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 71
Quoted from TJ
Yep, I'm fermenting apples with some ginger root (thanks again for the idea Ruthie!)  This is a bacterial ferment.  Bacteria don't produce alcohol, just lactic acid.  To get alcohol, you have to use yeast.


Can you please share how you do this, TJ.. When I culture  vegetables, I squish them with my hands until they release water. I only add sea salt, then pack into a jar...but when fermenting fruit, what's the specific process you follow? I've never fermented fruit.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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JJR
Thursday, May 19, 2011, 10:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,960
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Age: 42
Hmmmm...  

I've been told that it's the sugars in the fruits that can ferment into alcohol, if there is enough of it.  Yeast is one way of doing it.  The bacteria in the culturing process will eat up the sugars.  But I think there might be a point that there is too much sugar to be eaten up by the bacteria.  You could be right.  I'll see if I can come up with something more conclusive to show you.  Because now that you are challenging me, I'm not completely certain.  It's what I was told by the Gal at my Doctors office who has a pretty good handle on the cultured food art.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Ribbit
Friday, May 20, 2011, 2:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
But yeast is everywhere--in the air of our houses.  It's how you make sourdough without starter.   I've done it several times before with spelt and I've caught good yeasts and I've caught bad yeasts.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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TJ
Friday, May 20, 2011, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
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Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from Chloe
Can you please share how you do this, TJ.. When I culture  vegetables, I squish them with my hands until they release water. I only add sea salt, then pack into a jar...but when fermenting fruit, what's the specific process you follow? I've never fermented fruit.
I'm doing it pretty much the same way.  I chopped up the ginger and put it in the blender with the salt and a 1/4 c. of water.  I chopped up 4 apples into tiny pieces.  It filled most of a 1 qt. container.  I used a potato masher to squeeze out more juice, and I put a paper towel on top to catch any molds that might fall out of the air, and to keep the top layer of fruit wet.

Quoted from JJR
I've been told that it's the sugars in the fruits that can ferment into alcohol, if there is enough of it.  Yeast is one way of doing it.  The bacteria in the culturing process will eat up the sugars.  But I think there might be a point that there is too much sugar to be eaten up by the bacteria.  You could be right.  I'll see if I can come up with something more conclusive to show you.  Because now that you are challenging me, I'm not completely certain.  It's what I was told by the Gal at my Doctors office who has a pretty good handle on the cultured food art.
From what I read, keeping the food submerged in brine prevents the yeast or bad bacteria from surviving in the mixture.  I could be wrong, but that's what I read regarding fermentation.  If the fermented apples give me a hangover, then I'll know better than to try that again!
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TJ
Friday, May 20, 2011, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Age: 39
Hmmm, I just found this:
BASIC PRINCIPLES OF FERMENTATION

It says molds are aerobic, meaning they need air/oxygen.  Therefore, submersion in brine prevents mold growth.  However, yeasts can survive and thrive in anaerobic conditions (which is why they can create alcohol out of juice).

The article mentions Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker's yeast) as a beneficial yeast.  This yeast is also found in Polyflora-B, which is what I used in my starter.  I think I actually added a capsule to the apples, also.  Perhaps I should find myself a probiotic that doesn't contain yeast!

It was interesting to note that, according to the wikipedia article on baker's yeast, "Antibodies against S. cerevisiae are found in 60–70% of patients with Crohn's disease and 10–15% of patients with ulcerative colitis."  Perhaps that could be generalized to anyone with leaky gut or other digestive problems.

I will have to be careful to only eat small amounts of the fermented apples at a time, and I'm certainly not going to ferment anymore fruit until I've gotten a yeast-free probiotic.
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brinyskysail
Friday, May 20, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
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If you're trying to get rid of S. albicans, you shouldn't be consuming S. cerevisiae


There is a good in every bad  
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TJ
Friday, May 20, 2011, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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Absolutely.
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Melisa
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 2:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Nomad 63%/PROP Taster
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Hmmm...funny thing is, I feel better when I follow the diet. The most difficult is eating at friend's homes - I live in California - everyone is "healthy" - and they have whole wheat everything! Such a disaster. And soy. Another one.

Perhaps I miss peanut butter and grape jelly on whole wheat the most. And avocado sandwiches. Funny though, when I think about how it makes me feel (not sick, just foggy and out of it,) I am glad it is out. Chicken is a tough one because it is everywhere - goodness gracious. I do not miss it - never really took a liking to it - makes me sluggish.


Melissa

Nomad with Celiac. Just say, "No" to gluten. White lines, no more!
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ABJoe
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 3:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

34% Nomad
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from brinyskysail
If you're trying to get rid of S. albicans, you shouldn't be consuming S. cerevisiae

This is not true.  Yeast does not feed on another yeast, it competes with it for food...  If you are attempting to reduce one yeast population, providing a beneficial yeast to compete with it is one of the best strategies...  

You repopulate the gut with the beneficial yeast by continually replenishing it while it is competing with the undesired one for food, so some of the undesired one is continually dying - as long as you keep the food source amount constant.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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brinyskysail
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 3:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,229
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Quoted from ABJoe

This is not true.  Yeast does not feed on another yeast, it competes with it for food...  If you are attempting to reduce one yeast population, providing a beneficial yeast to compete with it is one of the best strategies...  

You repopulate the gut with the beneficial yeast by continually replenishing it while it is competing with the undesired one for food, so some of the undesired one is continually dying - as long as you keep the food source amount constant.


In the GTD book (I think it was that one) Dr. D did suggest that removing baker's yeast from the diet of a type A who has candida could be detrimental.  He only mentioned type A, and everything else I've ever read or heard says to cut yeast out of the diet - of course, though, a lot of untrue c**p tends to become accepted as truth so I'd be open to hearing other ideas


There is a good in every bad  
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cajun
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 4:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Pity party.....try having an intolerance to bakers and brewers yeast and being gluten intolerant.
I can find gluten free products..but they have yeast. I can find yeast free bread ( Pacific bakery)but it has gluten. The only yeast and gluten free bread I tried was dry, heavy, crumbly and tasteless. So, no bread for me.
Its ok because I eat brown rice, quinoa, and Marys gone crackers ( seeds).....they are all good.
I do take polyflora for A's, though....   


 Ao  ISFJ   Taster   Rh+  

"God gave us the gift of life. It is up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well." Voltaire
"Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be." Sir Paul McCartney
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brinyskysail
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 4:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,229
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Location: Bedford, PA
Age: 25
Quoted from cajun
Pity party.....try having an intolerance to bakers and brewers yeast and being gluten intolerant.
I can find gluten free products..but they have yeast. I can find yeast free bread ( Pacific bakery)but it has gluten. The only yeast and gluten free bread I tried was dry, heavy, crumbly and tasteless. So, no bread for me.
Its ok because I eat brown rice, quinoa, and Marys gone crackers ( seeds).....they are all good.
I do take polyflora for A's, though....   


I've had a bakers/brewers yeast intolerance for 8 years too and can't have wheat.  I never tested positive for celiac, but I just gave up all grains, and it's definitely helping so something's going on.  

Maybe we're just too cool for bread


There is a good in every bad  
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TJ
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I am so over sandwiches.
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JJR
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 8:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
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I haven't had a piece of bread in over 3 years.  However, I think I'm going to start.  I have had spelt cake that is sweetened with honey though.  And I just made spelt / buttermilk biscuits.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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brinyskysail
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 8:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

explorer~FM~lactose, soy, grain free
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,229
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Location: Bedford, PA
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Quoted from TJ
I am so over sandwiches.


I eat hero salads instead of hero subs


There is a good in every bad  
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Patty H
Sunday, May 22, 2011, 10:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Age: 56

I'm SO glad someone finally mentioned BEER!!!  I absolutely love good, micro brew beer.  If the only choice is a Bud, I'll drink water, thank you, but I love beer, particularly heferweizen, which of course, is WHEAT beer.

I just got back from vacation, and my rule is that I do not DIET on vacation.  Unlike many of you, I am not doing the GTD because I have stomach issues with food.  When I go on vacation, I CHEAT with a capital C!  At home, I am close to 100% compliant, except usually every other Sunday, I have ice cream.

Here is what I cheated on while on vacation:

Wheat BEER
coffee
ice cream
french fries
cheeseburger with the bun and cheese and bacon
one day I had BREAD
tortilla's - I was in Arizona, after all
cheese
dessert
Bloody Mary's with vodka
potato chips
popcorn

I am sure I am missing some things.  I gained three pounds on vacation, but I should be able to take it off within two weeks or less, so it was worth it!

Red wine is a geno harmonic food for me with just about everything, so I can still have red wine, but I do miss white wine.  Although I drank vodka in the bloody mary's, I really do not drink booze.  Just wine (and BEER  )

I am lucky I like the food on my diet, which helps me to stay compliant when not on vacation or when it is not a designated cheat day!  Staying 100% compliant when I am home is not a problem for me.  It's the exercise I dread, but am doing regularly now.



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JJR
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 12:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
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I do find myself missing corn chips!!!  Bad, good, blue, yellow.  Whatever.  I love them.  And yeah, I love beer.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Sahara
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 2:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I was compliant on wheat till 2008.  Last 3 years I've eaten pizza once a week.  It just occurred to me I was sick all fall.... I had a virus on Christmas day even.  So much for the pizza thing.  I've even developed joint pains.  Have been on & off cultured dairy last several years also.  *sigh*   The headaches, fatigue & bloating are driving me crazy so I'm back on the diet more strictly.  Gosh, the things you might start to believe if you get away  from blood type.  It's kind of dangerous really.
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cajun
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 12:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
Posts: 2,450
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Brinyskysail,
I didn't test positive for celiac either but I know that I cannot do wheat.
I do eat old fashioned oats, quinoa, buckwheat and brown rice with no problem, though.
How do you "fill up"? What is a typical days menu for you?


 Ao  ISFJ   Taster   Rh+  

"God gave us the gift of life. It is up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well." Voltaire
"Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be." Sir Paul McCartney
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Ribbit
Friday, June 3, 2011, 2:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?1224

I've been eating these crackers a lot lately.  The children love them.  They're very savory and would work well as a flat bread for a sandwich if you still feel the need for one (I cracked up when I read TJ's comment about being SO over sandwiches).  Sometimes, though, you just need a little somethin'.  And these crackers are really good.

The other day I tried them as a dessert.  I left the cheese out and instead of all the recommended seasonings, I used cinnamon and about 1 Tbsp. of honey.  After they baked, I drizzled on some more honey and sprinkled on some more cinnamon.  Perfect snack or dessert!


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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JJR
Friday, June 3, 2011, 4:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
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I wonder if you could throw some pesto and cheese on it and turn it into a pizza?  With some veggies and whatever.  I haven't had pizza in like forever.  I think I mentioned earlier I liked it cold, the next day.  Mmmmmmmmmm...


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
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Ribbit
Sunday, June 12, 2011, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
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Age: 36
I guess you could, but this is really a flat, crisp cracker.  If you want pizza, I'd use spelt.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Sahara
Sunday, June 12, 2011, 3:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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A month off wheat & I am doing much better, my hand tremor went away completely.  I had a few skinny days to rejoice then decided I'd replace sprouted bread with grains.  Wrong.  I can't stand the tiny pooch I get from any amount of grains, not sure what to do.  I'm healing my metabolism or I thought I was but putting this diet together...ugh and I have years of experience too.  I'm starting to wonder what the point is of trying to lose more body fat, shouldn't I just try to enjoy life?  Aren't I already skinny?  At least I'm not craving junk.  So bored.
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