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Fermenting and sprouting for our Type  This thread currently has 7,639 views. Print Print Thread
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de_nogent
Thursday, July 1, 2010, 8:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter
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Christina,

Thanks so much for all of your research, time and effort. Absolutely fascinating! There is definitely a complex science behind all this stuff. I propose that we start individual recipe threads for each: fermenting, sprouting, and yogurt (BTD Recipe Center?). You should write a book, too. I'd buy it!

Thanks again, and I can't wait to make a complete mess of my kitchen.


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Cristina
Thursday, July 1, 2010, 9:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for your kind words.  I am not doing anything special or be expert at anything ... I think it is my INFP, just a case of the Extrovert side of my Introvert personality coming out, with the help of my Ntuitive nature, supported by my Feelings to help and share with other people and feeding in my Perception of the need for such information to be available here ...

This thread is not meant to replace Recipe Central.  In Recipe Central we post our final products, here we vent our frustrations or share our successes, propose experiments, try  things out ... apply that old thing that 'four eyes see better than two', well, we have a million eyes here ... It also allow us to identify environmental and food items differences ... shortcuts, or be the magic box of genie ideas for when we lack the 'proper' devices (ie: if I do not have a yogurt maker what do I use, how to keep cultures warm in cold weather, how to improvise when you do not have big loaf pans to bake your breads in ...).

And, as some others here pointed out, although they are individual techniques, they are all related.  For example, when you are sprouting, you may be sprouting for your salads, or for your baking.  If you are sprouting for your baking you will be discussing what length to stop the process so they ferment better, dry better and can be grind better.  In this case you may find yourself jumping from the sprouting thread to the fermenting thread ... Even with the yogurt making ... use it in bread fermenting too ...  So, as a research, learning project, having it all together in the one thread, will be advantageous ...

BTW, I started that way, with the two threads, but since we have (admins have) joined them into one ... Hope it is OK for you too and will find it easier to use ...  




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Cristina
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The Lentils, almond and oat fermented bread cast iron experiment:
Progress report 2.-



Taste = it is an acquired one! For me, when you put the piece of bread on your mouth, it gives you like a sweetness of almond melting through, but then the bitter aftertaste from the lentils fighting against the sour yeastery ferment knocks you down!! I think, if I had used rice instead of lentil, it would have been a much appreciated bread loaf!  As it stands, Metta had to rinse her mouth (typical supertaster nonnie), hubby quickly grabbed the more familiar spelt loaf sitting next to it and our visitor today gave us all the look of 'what kind excuse can I use to run to the nearest coffee shop for breakfast?'  ...

Texture = Perfect! dense but soft, like a cake, easy to cut and keep

I spent a good part of an hour trying to find ways of making it more palatable ...

ghee and honey did not work - too much contrast: bitter to sweet ...

Feta cheese was fine to me, the saltiness of the cheese mixes well with the bitterness of the dhal ... Metta could at least swallow it this time ... she even suggested maybe serve it with tomato paste or guacamole ...

Since I do not have either at home at the moment (tomato or avocado to make the pastes), I kept on trying with other toppings ...

I used Miso spread on it: I am sold on this one, the combo worked very well for me, but I was not going to push my luck and ask Metta or anybody else in the household to have another try ...  I decided to surprise them at lunch  

Conclusion: I will not delete the post because although not for everone's taste, it is a palatable enough healthy combo (specially with the right topping), high in proteins, packed with B vitamins and full of gut healing sugars as a result of the fermenting action of the culture used to make the dough.  

As an afterthought: Maybe if I had used some herbs and spices, like cummin seeds, thyme or even curry powder, would have made a different to the taste results ...

I am not baking it again though, not using dhal (lentil) like I did here.  I will try to make another one, similar, but using rice flour instead, as suggested by Ruthiegirl earlier ... (rice flour: shopping list reminder ...).

This experiment does answer the question of whether you can use other kinds of flours in fermenting: the answer is obviously YES, that is easy enough, the complexity lies in finding the right palatable combo for the dough ... My vote is in for the rice flour being a favorite one for most people ... as a viable alternative to wheat ...  




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Cristina
Friday, July 2, 2010, 3:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sprouting:
Wheat berries:

OK, time to start sprouting, get off my chair, grab those wheat berries waiting in the cubit and set them up for sprouting:

I am using:

4 ex-coffee glass jars
4 cups of wheat berries - whole wheat, that is all I have at home at the moment ...
4 knee high stockings as lids (instead of the plastic mesh and thick rubber bands suggested in the video
enough water to rinse and fill jars

Process if pretty simple, 1 cup of berry in each jar, fill with water. All dirt and foreign particles will rush to the top, tip over the rubbish, continue filling jar until water is clear.

Cover jars with preferred method, improvise, it is fun.  I am using the knee high stockings over the top and to self tie around opening ...

It is 1:00pm Friday.  I am curious to see how long these berries will take to sprout, and if they will sprout at all.  This is the moment of truth, to judge our suppliers and see if what they say is raw and organic, it really is ... or maybe is the farmer sneaking in GM berries ...   Hope not!!!

Come on, go and get yours going, lets see whose sprouts come out first!!! Lets have fun with it ... Some users from Australia will be nice too to be able to compare our sources ...

I intent to sprout to make fermented sprouted bread, or just sprouted bread, which one is healthier?  

Will follow up with some progress reports as usual ...

PS: here is the link I am using as an guide: http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2010/06/14/how-to-sprout-whole-grains-and-make-sprouted-flour/





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Cristina  -  Saturday, July 3, 2010, 5:15pm
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SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
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As you can see, I am downsizing heaps from what the author of that video suggests, just using it as a guide.  Also, I have a small 5 tray Ezi-Dri dehydrator, it is doing the job for us so far,  it cost us about $200, just under ...




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Lola
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this is precisely the reason why I always make thin foccacia out of my experiments....
the nutrition value is high, the results are always perfect, and each square rerves either as an open sandwich or mini pizza or whatever you feel like smearing on it.


oh and before I forget....
get yourself a flaker!!!

you soak all grains, legumes, or whatever you wish to flake.....
once air dried.....you pass them through the flaker mill....
this adds a whole new dimension to your home made granola, or whatever....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
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Thanks Lola, I do have a flaker, the problem at the moment  I cannot get my grains ... some sort of scarcity due to bad crops ...  had to buy already rolled oats ... I tried soaking those, but it is not the same as soaking the grain and then creating the flakes ...  

PS: and by the way, that lentil bread, we loved it, I cooked adzuki beans, made a pate type of thing with onions, garlic, tamari, lemon, olive oil, smeared over the bread and we had that for lunch and dinner yesterday ... by dinner type, the lentil betterness had settled down into a more subtle taste ... like the bread had aged and had time to blend the flavors into a more even, yummy savory taste ...




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Lola
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sounds delicious!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
Saturday, July 3, 2010, 5:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I was actually pleasantly surprised by the end result, after the 'aging' longer time.  I kept it in the fridge too, rather than on the counter top like the Spelt bread ... Because of the lentil flour, it sort of game me the feeling that it was better to keep it that way ...

Wheat Berries Sprouting:

After over 24 hours soaking (I think), I now have them draining on a glass oven tray ...

Unlike the author of the video link referenced before, my wheat berries do not show any signs of sprouting ... hopefully they are not too old ... lucky it is winter here, therefore the chances of spoilage are lessen, got a bit of time to wait and see if these berries are good enough ... Hope they are not too old ...

Has anyone else had much luck sprouting wheat at home?  are you doing that now?  how soon before you get yours to show any signs ...?  




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mine always sprout after I leave them draining for a whole day and night, try to keep them in a dark place.....the tray needs to be a colander type material, where no extra water is stored, so your grains don t drown.....


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Cristina
Saturday, July 3, 2010, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok Lola thanks ...




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Sprouting wheat berries progress report:

After 24 or so hours draining I can see shoots coming out, not on all of them, but in some.  Have been rinsing them a few times a day and they are happily draining on a colander over an oven tray!    ... Will let them sprout for another day or two ...  

Also, the soybeans I soaked the other day and I have kept in the fridge for a day or so in water, then I removed the water and still left them in the glass jar in the fridge, today when I took them out to cook, some of them had sprouted.  Tiny shoot at the end ... I am blanching them for 15 minutes (rapid boiling) and then I will slow boil them until cooked.  I do not think they have sprout enough, or rather, that not enough of them have sprouted to warrant eating them just by blanching ... So, boiling them may be safer ...  




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twice a day rinsing is more than enough......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Cristina
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Sprouting wheat berries:

thanks again Lola!  

By now, about 70% of the berries sprouted, some of them got two or three branches, so, it is time to dehydrate or slow down the process, or they will become too bitter ...

I have put the contents of the one jar (sprouted or not berries) in the dehydrator ...
Unfortunately I only have ONE tray thin enough to hold the berries, my other 5 trays got openings that are too wide to hold them.  I wonder what can I use, that is safe enough to put in the dehydrator as a temporary tray sieve to hold my wheat berries ...??  

While i figure that one out, or someone gives me any suitable ideas, I have put the other three jars in the refrigerator ... waiting their turn to go in the dehydrator ... for how long? ... maybe 24 hours, this time tomorrow I can put the next batch, or maybe tonight I can use a tray in the slowest setting in the oven ... for the others ... what temp? ... too many ??? research ... help!!! ....  




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Cristina
Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 12:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sprouting wheat berries:

My last post was one hour ago and the wheat berries in the dehydrator are already dry!!  i had it on medium ... maybe too hot? ... do not have the manual for it yet!! they did not supply it with the unit, supposed to sent it to me soon ...

Anyhow, I put the second lot in, this time at the lowest setting in the dehydrator, (only 3 settings: low, medium, high) ... Lets see how long they take to dry ...

I am very proud of my wheat berries sitting in a glass jar in my pantry, waiting to be converted into sprouted/soaked wheat flour, using my stone ground milling device !!!

Can't wait to taste bread baked using it !!! ..  




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Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 2:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have a question about culturing vegetables.

Wondering if I could add a few capsules of Polyflora A to my cultured vegetables as a starter..

I noticed that the Body Ecology company sells a probiotic starter and I watched a youtube video that
showed a woman chopping her vegetables, but then adding a cup full of those vegetables to
a blender with a cup or two of water and she dumped in a culturing powder they sell on the Body
Ecology website...plus salt..  All that was in that powder was various strains of good bacteria....which made me think of using polyflora so I might wind up with  custom cultured vegetables.

What do you think?


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Cristina
Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 5:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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can't hurt, go for it and tell us how it works, I made do the same with mine ...

Wonders of experimenting ... Lola will sure step in to put us right ...




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I add one to mine......heck, I add one to anything I can get my hands on!!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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All my bread cultures (I am maintaining 3 starters at the moment), have one Polyflora cap in them.  

Seed variation Sponge:

Tonight I have started a new sponge type.  It will produced a no knead, no yeast loaf,   with seeds and more than one rise (all my previous no knead only had one overnight rise):

I prepared the sponge with:

1 cup starter (see process somewhere earlier in this thread)
1 cup warm water
2 cups flour (made from organic, previously soaked, sprouted and stone grinded wheat berries!!) (as shown in previous posts)
1 or 2 tsp salt (celtic )
handful of pumpkin seeds
2 tbsp flax seeds
2 tbsp flax seed oil (any compliant will do)
crushed sprouted wheat berries
organic barley malt, about 2 tablespoons (I just threw in a big blob of it!

Mixed everything into a thick batter and I am leaving this mixture in a big bowl overnight on top of my coffee machine (warm place) ...

Will continue tomorrow ...

Notice I am using the flour made from the wheat berries I sprouted earlier (as explained in my previous posts).  I only have about 5 or 6 cups of it, I have already used a few on keeping my cultures alive tonight, so I will probably have to complement this flour with bought spelt white flour I have in the pantry ... we will see ...  


Seed variation Sponge:
Progress report 1

At 4:00am (morning after) I have added one more cup of flour and a bit less than a cup of warm water to the mixture.  Back to the warmish place on top of my coffee maker ...  

Progress report 2:

At 9:30am gently folded in one cup white spelt flour and back to its warm place ... covered with dish cloth and all to keep it warm ... :=

AT 2:00pm glentle folded 2 whole wheat flour, the one I have soaked, sprouted and grinded earlier ...  By then the dough was thick enough to the point I had to use my hands to blend all the flour in and form two neat balls.  I placed each in a divided oven dish I have.  It has been sitting on top of the coffee maker growing nicely ... It is 5:00pm now, I wait until it doubles in size, maybe a few more hours and then I should be able to bake it in a hot oven ...

The slow rising is what is important  with the sourdough, you do not want to rush it ...

Progress report 3

At about 7:00pm I finally put the dish in the oven at about 350F (200c).
I sprayed the top with water, I repeated this every ten minutes twice more (I saw this in one of those U-tube clips, I liked the look of the crust then)  
In all I baked it for about 50 minutes, 40 at highest 350F, the last ten a bit lower temp!!  Still not too clear temperature wise ...

I have removed the two loaves from the dish and they are now 'resting', all wrapped up in a warm place in my kitchen (guess where ...

We will probably have some for breaky tomorrow morning, will let you know how they taste, but as for looks ...

Top: is crusty and shiny
Color: is dark, understandable given it is majority spelt flour and sprouted whole wheat flour and grains ...
Texture: seems to be denser, will not know for sure until I cut it, later ...
Aroma: wonderful, fill the whole house with this sweet, home baked bread smell,  what else??

'No knead' bread means gluten is not developed, gluten is the elastic type of fiber in the dough that forms a barrier to retain the gases caused by the yeast eating the protein ... that is why kneaded bread rises higher, there are more gas pockets lifting the dough ... no knead, no gluten, no barrier to hold the gases, more of them scape out ,.. you can actually see the bubbles at the top breaking out, you see more wholes on the top crust than in a kneaded bread where the crust is smoother ... something like that ...  

... and BTW ... I am able to report about the taste now!! The warriors at home did a good job of 'tasting' it while I was talking to you guys here!  well, it is yummy! I will definitely bake this again!! I like the texture too, it is dense, but soft and well baked, not gummy or heavy ... Adding the flour in stages allowed for the dough to process more of it, slowly, so more complex tastes develop ... These breads sort of taste better with time too, that 'aging' thing, can't wait too long though, or I will miss out ...  






Revision History (4 edits)
Cristina  -  Friday, July 9, 2010, 11:03am
Cristina  -  Friday, July 9, 2010, 6:41am
Cristina  -  Friday, July 9, 2010, 6:40am
Cristina  -  Thursday, July 8, 2010, 8:16pm
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"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Mayflowers
Thursday, July 8, 2010, 2:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Cristina
No knead, natural fermented bread in Cast Iron pot:
progress report 2:

The blob is out!!  As expected did not raised much from its original state, but it still looks so cute!!  I am posting some photos in the next few minutes.


Sounds good..can you help it along with some regular yeast..? I found that adding whole egg to the dough makes it rise higher also..adds protein too.
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MF:
Yes, commercial yeast could be used when everything else fails,    but,I am trying to be self reliant with the yeast, create my natural one,   also regular yeast has too many additivies  , I am trying to avoid it ...  ( I will try to find the link in the net where they talk about the additives in some commercial yeast and post it here as a PS maybe).

I may try the egg thing though, sounds good, maybe ferment the egg shells too for extra oops!   mmmm thanks for the idea ...  

Chloe:
Thanks for that link, it reminds me at home when we used to ferment the grapes to make wine!!! Have you tried fruit Kimchi (I have posted the recipe in other thread some time ago, will have to do that here too) where you can ferment fruit and nuts with a bit of salt and water, like sauerkrat.  It is very yummy too, not as alcoholic ending as using sugar, and you get to rinse and chop the fruit and you can also use dry fruit ...




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Seed variation Sponge:
Progress report 1

I posted this report at the end of the original post (reply 93), to keep it together.




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Never even heard of fermented fruit until a friend who is not on this forum sent me the link today.  She's a diabetic and on her forums people say that they can eat fermented fruit without it raising their
blood sugar.  And that made me think....Is fermentation one way to normalize blood sugar?  
What about good gut flora affects blood sugar? Obviously this is very important for everyone to
know about.

Wouldn't it be amazing if a natural blood sugar stabilizing solution is simple fermentation?  Not drugs?

OK..so Cristina...can you please explain how to go about fermenting fruit?  What's a good fruit
to use? Pears?  Peaches?   Apples?  And is this going to be salted?

BTW. look at this cool jar for fermenting
http://store.therawdiet.com/pisaandkimch.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

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Cool jar, but I am saving my bucks for something else at the moment! Recycle jam, coffee, mayonaise jars, glass bowls, plates to hold the fuit down, is all you need ... I am definetely posting my process here next!!

Fermenting contributes to our good gut flora!!  yes, yes, yes, normalises sugar, yes, yes, yes, ... that is why I am so keen on doing all this, trying, fermenting, cultures, breaking down proteins naturally outside our body so we can assimilate them easily ...  




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BTD Forums    Lifestyle    Cook Right 4 Your Type  ›  Fermenting and sprouting for our Type

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