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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 11:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cristina
Thanks Chloe, Symbi!  and Symbi, I love those links, thanks.  Actually the Sourdough info is the best i have seen so far, even Nourishing .... does not explain it that well!  Rye flour is black dot for us, but according to that site, once you keep on feeding the starter, the Rye gets eaten and replaced with whatever you use!!  

I think Jenny was going to try the Rye starter, it is quoted as being better fermenting flour, usually giving activity much sooner than any of the other flours ... I have Rye flour and I think I will experiment with it.   See what happens ... Love this classromm ... very nice, friendly, helpful and knowledgeable company ...





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Cristina
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Quoted from Lola
next project Christina
make your own sprouted flour mixes to add a touch of uniqueness and extra nutrition to all your baked sourdough goods!

sprouting grains, legumes, seeds
dehydrating and grinding into flours.....




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Cristina
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Quoted from Cristina
Regarding the fermented bread:

Yesterday I baked one in the breadmaker, set it up manually, experimenting, it has like 3 raising times and kneading times,  I set it to knead for 30 first, then 5 minutes and gave it a lot of time in between to rise, like an hour the first time and 40 minutes the second time ...

The final product was very nice.  

1.- height: It raised quite a bit, but not as much as my previous breads, this one was about a couple of centimetres below the top of the container, the previous ones were right at the top of it.  
2.- Texture: This one is more dense, not as crumby as previous ones that received a lot more kneading time
3.- this one is sweeter, not as soury as the others.  You would not know you are eating a sourbread ...

I can see that the more you knead the loaves, the lighter the texture, the crumbier they become ...

I have 4 cultures going on at the moment ... a couple I started with just Rye flour and water, no yogurt, hope the yeast pores are well established now at home ...

Got myself a couple of extra glass bowls to ferment extra vegies and do a fruit kimchi (love this dish, is delisioso with all that ferment good for our guts!!).

Got some plain wholewheat grains to sprout as well ...

We have been eating pinto beans, black beans, soy beans, ...  soak them for many hours (over 24), with a little bit of lemon juice, not too much or it affects the taste ... then cook them slowly on crock pot ... rinse and mixed them with  sauces, grains,  something a different colour and texture every day!!




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 11:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jenny

Symbi, thanks for that information and for the suppport; yes, my babies have started to grow healthily I think. They are about 7 days old now, in a rye starter, sitting in a heavy ex-coffee jar, tall, in a water bath in an old slow cooker that only works on the lowest level. I don't cover them at all now, as I need to stalk as many wild yeasts as I have in my house!
I am very tempted to do a loaf today, and have to decide whether to do the
manual or machine process.
I am very confident about the rye starter even though the person for whom I am making this is not a rye eater, because the literature says somewhere that it is transformed in the process. Basically I will be after the most pure and healthy spelt/sourdough combination. Once you start searching you do find that spelt is considered better than modern wheat, and sourdough much better than commercial yeast. Slow cooking rules! I see that there is no useful sourdough material in recipe central yet, so maybe it is time? Maybe all of this on this project will contribute our best efforts in succinct form?
I hope to have good news very soon.
Jenny





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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 11:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok, that's it!  I think I brought over all relevant posts a few of us have been busying ourselves with under my other thread.  Like many things in life, started as just a small experiment one afternoon, and now it has transformed into a whole new life form!!! It deserves a thread on its own, in the lifestyle or cooking section within these forums ...

Fermenting, sprouting, culture yogurts, kefirs, natto,... , post away your experiences, success or learning experiences ...  It is all good fun in our journey to nurturing our true type ...




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Jenny, have you noticed how powerful the aroma is from the Rye flour when first start the fermenting?  It dies off once the creatures get going, but the first time I mix the rye flour and water, wow, it hit me!

I have baked another no knead bread on the bread maker, mix the ingredients manually first and then put the blob in the machine, manual setting, no knead time and about 1.5hrs rise time ... The result is a very yummy bread, but not very height, about 5cm or 2 to 3 inches tall ...





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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No knead, natural fermented bread in Cast Iron pot:

This morning I am experimenting with the dutch over style, that is, no knead, no yeast mixture baked in a cast iron pot in the conventional oven (electric in my case).

I had the dough prooving (on top of my coffee maker machine) overnight and it has more than double its size!  

I am waiting for my cast iron pot to heat up.  I have the oven on max (250F).  

I will then, gently, trying not to kill the bubbles as U-tube videos recommend,  fold the dough over to make a nice neat loaf and put it in the steaming hot cast iron pot (with lid on) for about 20 minutes.

Then, lower the heat a bit, remove lid, and cook for another 15 minutes or so ...

Lets see how I go with this one ...  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No knead, natural fermented bread in Cast Iron pot:
progress report 1:

Talking about blob!! That is exactly what my dough turned up to be.  One cup of starter and 3 cups of flour as suggested by one of those U-tube videos, produced too runny dough for me (this time anyway).

The 'blob' seemed to have a live of its own in my hands while I was trying to fold it over, it was trying to run away through my fingers ...

Somehow, I managed to gather it in my two hands and drop it in the steaming hot cast iron pot inside the oven!!  It was an adventure of its own, just to try to avoid scorching my hands in the process!!!

Now, with the oven that hot, and this dough in this 'blob' state, I am not looking forward to what I may find in the next twenty minutes when i remove the lid from the cast iron pot ...!!!

I am getting the weirdest looks from my hubby at the moment "why can she just make 'normal' bread?..."  ... 4:30am ...  




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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 8:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Has anybody ever had success with oat or rice  flour in sourdough? Spelt is a black dot for me, and I don't know if I'll tolerate it better as sourdough or if it will still give me trouble. Oats are officially a neutral for me, but I've had bad experiences with it pre-BTD and I haven't tried it recently. I'm guessing that it would be easier to digest as sourdough than as oatmeal cookies?



Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ruthiegirl, I have not tried that, but I love experimenting, and I do happen to have rice flour and could get some oat flour later ...  

My feeling is that you could use the same sourdough starter made of rye and spelt and then use the rice or oat flour at the time of making the bread dough ...

But, I do not know, I could also give it a try of starting the ferment with Rye, and using oats or rice flours to get the starter going ... I am sure I saw something on those lines somewhere in my google travels ...  




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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 8:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No knead, natural fermented bread in Cast Iron pot:
progress report 2:

The blob is out!!  As expected did not raised much from its original state, but it still looks so cute!!  I am posting some photos in the next few minutes.

It sounds hollow when tapped and it has that sort of county, 'out of the campfire' type of look!  Hopefully by the time I post the photos, it would have cool down enough to cut it and report from the taste buds ...




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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 8:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Or maybe I'll just wait until my health is a bit more stable before experimenting with this. Rye and spelt are both black dots for me- so, if I was healthy, the trace amounts in the final product that are left after using them in a starter wouldn't be a problem. But I don't want to throw another wrench in the works when I've been feeling "off"- I should eat simply and focus on beneficials right now.

Has anybody started talking about fermenting vegetables yet? It seems like all the commercially available fermented foods (sourkraut, kombucha, kefir, yogurt) are either black dots or avoids for me. If I'm to get probitocs in my diet (and my budget), I need to do my own fermenting.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 9:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ruthiegirl,  there is fermented rice our there two, there are some very nice indian dishes to experiment with ...

Regarding fermented vegies, it is very simple:

grab a glass bowl and place some very fine shredded cabbage  (and carrots and any other vegies you want to experiment with),  

work it with your hands to draw some juice out sprinking with salt every now and then

After a while, you should have quite a bit of juice worked out

pack the vegies into a wide mouth glass jar, making sure they are submerged in their own liquid, add more liquid if need be.  Glass jar should be wide enough to allow you to put another container on top of the vegies to keep them submerged in the liquid (brine).  I use a small coffee expresso type of plate pressed down with a skinnier jar full of water.  

Keep these fermenting vegies on the counter top for a few days until ready to refrigerate.  Now when that is ready, depends on your taste.  Have a little taste every day or two and when you are happy with it, refrigerate indefinitely!

I intend to document this process, but if anyone starts it before, feel free to post and share your process please .. we all learn from each other ...  




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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cabbage is a  black dot for me. I intend to make carrot/ginger kraut in a day or two, after I have a chance to buy more carrots, and today I made beet kvass. It's just so hard to remember to prepare them when it doesn't help me feed myself or my family that very day. The ginger carrots take half a week and the kvass takes 2 days- but then it takes food prep time and energy away from what we need to eat right away.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Cristina
Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 11:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Once you get into the rhythm of things, it 'becomes second nature' as Lola said to me earlier ...

Showering, bathing, dressing, cleaning up the house, everything requires effort and a certain rythm for us to do it, we can either make it worse by adding our tune of discontent to the task or make it re-energize us by tuning it with content!!  

It becomes easier to me to prioritise these tasks when I think about all those good fermenting, sprouting, culture little beings,  re-enforcing my good genes, healing my gut and nurturing my inside.  It spurs me on and makes me want to sing along ...  




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Cristina
Thursday, July 1, 2010, 1:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No knead, natural fermented bread in Cast Iron pot:
progress report 3:



It may look pitty to the experts out there, but with morning coffee, ghee and honey in this cold cloudy day after a long walk at the beach ... priceless!!




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ruthiegirl
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So, how did it taste?

I know that fermenting will become "second nature" once I get into it again, when I'm eating it daily and I make more because I notice I'm running low, and I want the next batch to be ready by the time this batch is finished. I'm just not quite there yet.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Cristina
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I thought that 'priceless' comment at the bottom of the photos said it all!!  Tasted wonderful!  Not as sweet as my previous bread, but still nice, texture was easy to cut, crusty on the outside, well cooked, airy ... The different in taste from previous ones was subtle, as expected with the culture being from a different bottle, you see, with this method there is always a subtle difference in taste each time ...  different environment conditions, different air quality, different creatures ...

Regarding the environment conditions I just want to point out that I do not use any sprays or perfumes at home at all, sometimes they (the spray) can have a bad effect on the good fauna (or is it flora?) in the air ...  So if you come to my place loaded up with perfumes do not expect to get (from me at least) any nice comments of how nice you smell. On the contrary, I will try to keep you as far away as possible from my kitchen and even invite you to eat out instead ... some sort of packed picnic ...  

(you see, I will still look after you ...)  




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Cristina
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One of my bottles went bad, threw it out!  It became all black at the top, it happens, just be aware ...  The other three are doing great! Like bought yeast when you put it in water to activate ... You know is OK ...

I have a bottle with ferment on the counter, it is  in its infancy, the matured ones are in the fridge, to get them to dormant state,  will keep on feeding them and looking after them, like you do when you have babies and have to prepare food very carefully for them  and store their food in the fridge .... these are our babies ....  




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Cristina
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The Lentils, almond and oat fermented bread cast iron experiment:

Quoted from ruthiegirl
Has anybody ever had success with oat or rice  flour in sourdough? Spelt is a black dot for me, and I don't know if I'll tolerate it better as sourdough or if it will still give me trouble. Oats are officially a neutral for me, but I've had bad experiences with it pre-BTD and I haven't tried it recently. I'm guessing that it would be easier to digest as sourdough than as oatmeal cookies?



As I type, I have got resting a mixture inspired by your post (not exactly what you asked for, but could be easily substitute for rice later on if this works):

.- about 2 cups ground lentils (I used organic dahl)
.- about 1.5 cups almond flour
.- about .5 cup oat bran
.- 1 cup sourdough starter
.- 1 cup warm water
.- 2 teaspoons salt
.- 1 tbsp Barley malt

I mixed all this together, put it in a small glass bowl and once risen (if it does rise at all), I will put it in a small dutch oven and into the oven ... high temp for first 20m, lower temp next 15 minutes and see what happens ...

If nothing palatable comes out of this, I will just delete this post, so not to waste anyone's time and space ...  

it is 2:00pm Thursday here ...





Revision History (2 edits)
Cristina  -  Thursday, July 1, 2010, 11:38am
Cristina  -  Thursday, July 1, 2010, 11:36am
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Lola
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if it doesn t rise, flatten it out and bake a focaccia......nothing goes to waste....
all are perfectly nutritious ingredients
or make pizza bases and refrigerate covered for future use....
make tortillas, ingera, whatever!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Jenny
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I'm so happy to report that my first loaf of sourdough bread is a wonderful success.
I ended up doing it in the machine, but manipulating the times so that it had far more rising than the regular set up. It was more than 6 hours in all.
I will report on the exact details after refining it again tomorrow.
it's all good xxx



Eating half and exercising double.
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Cristina
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Great news warrior!!  I knew you will crack it!!!  Enjoy it!!  Cannot wait for the details.  In the meantime I had been experimenting with the dutch oven type, like in a cast iron pot in the oven, I have just finished baking the second one ... They do not rise as much with this no knead, no commercial yeast, but they certainly make up for texture and taste!  Very earthy feeling ...  




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Cristina
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The Lentils, almond and oat fermented bread cast iron experiment:
Progress report 1.-

Well, after good 7 hours I can report that the mixture has risen!!  about double in size, maybe a bit less, but certainly risen it has!!  

What I have done so far:
I had a small cast iron dish in the oven getting hot at full temp ...

after a few minutes, once I knew it would be hot enough I removed it from the oven (carefully, very hot) ...

I turned the glass bowl (with the dough) upside down over this cast iron dish (scorching hot still), so that the dough will fall in it gently, trying to avoid breaking any valuable bubbles ...

I put the cast iron dish lid on, and the dish back into the oven for the next twenty minutes ...

Twenty minutes later, I reduced the oven temp to moderate, just under 200F and removed the lid from the cast iron dish (carefully avoiding hot surfaces) ...

After another twenty minutes I removed the dish from the oven and removed the fermented almond, lentil and oat bran bread from the dish to cool down ... (well, I will once the twenty minutes are up)

The aroma emanating from these cast iron fermented type breads are embracing the house  and are unbelievable!!  I am not too sure how these two loaves are going to taste tomorrow when we cut them (after intensifying the flavours overnight), but if the aroma is anything to be guided by, I am really happy already!!  




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Can't wait to hear how it tastes Cristina  


Listen to all, plucking a feather from every passing goose, but follow no one absolutely. CHINESE PROVERB

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