Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register


Main Forum Page  ♦   Latest Posts  ♦   Member Center  ♦   Search  ♦   Archives   ♦   Help   ♦   Log In/Out   ♦   Admins
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Phenols - Hunters and Explorers
Users Browsing Forum
Baidu Spider and 10 Guests

Phenols - Hunters and Explorers  This thread currently has 7,267 views. Print Print Thread
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
misspudding
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 7:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
In the GTD book, it mentions that phenols are something that causes allergic reactions in Hunters and Explorers.

I also came across phenols and salicylates while researching the SCD diet (for inflammatory bowel disease).

I'm incredibly fascinated by the whole phenol/salicylate link with inflammation, as they're "supposed" to be anti-inflammatory. Boggles my mind.

Is it that Hunters and Explorers truly have a sensitivity/allergy to things with phenol or salicylate? Or is it that our guts are generally so damaged, that the phenols cross the gut barrier and get into the bloodstream, causing inflammation?

Everytime we stray from low-salicylate (read, bland, uncolorful) fruits right now, my son's Crohn's acts up a bit. He's doing really, really well right now (thank god), so it's easy to pin point where things go wrong. He's on bananas and pineapple and meat at the moment. Every time we do more than a little bit of cherries (very high in polyphenols), or blueberries, he gets worse. Raspberries seemed okay, but he hasn't done much of them. Our big indicator of leaky gut is nosebleeds. He's stable and hasn't had one in about a week. Last one was several hours after having a bowl of dark sweet cherries. (Kid loves them.)

I'm surprised more docs who specialize in inflammation don't understand the connection with phenols/salicylates. My son was put on a salicylate drug as an anti-inflammatory for Crohn's, and he got a lot worse. When we quit the drug and explained the reason why to his pediatric gastroenterologist, he said, "It's very unlikely the drug made him worse." I really like the guy because he's generally very accepting of naturopathy, and he's okay with our decision to go with a dietary-only approach, so I won't hold it against him.

Again, I'm just really interested and fascinated by this topic. Anyone else notice sensitivity that got better after following BTD/GTD/SWAMI?


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message
misspudding
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Also, it looks like if you cook the fruits, it reduces the phenol content. Phenols are a benzene ring with an hydroxyl group attached to it, which means they're pretty volatile (they're an alcohol, hence the -ol ending). Cooking would volatilize the phenols and make them a lot safer.

Hey explorers, check out this list of things to avoid.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_phenol


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 1 - 16
misspudding
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 8:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
If you're a details and number freak, this site is great.

http://www.phenol-explorer.eu/

Follow the menus at the top to search for various phenol contents of foods. You can then determine if there is a particular phenol in a food that bothers you (tannins, salicylates, etc.).


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 2 - 16
Spring
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 9:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,402
Gender: Female
Location: Southeastern USA
Fascinating study you are doing, Misspudding. I can't say that I have noticed any really bad reactions myself except to the poison oak nemesis.    There could be milder reactions that I simply haven't been aware of having, though.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 3 - 16
susanC
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 10:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

34% Teacher
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 250
Gender: Female
Location: Near San Francisco
Age: 68
Misspudding--I do remember a few years ago that my sister went to a naturopath that put her on an anti-inflammatory diet which among other things called for only lightly cooked fruits.  Not raw.

I really your posts and am learning much from you.

Thank you.

Susan
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 4 - 16
Lloyd
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 10:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 (Hunter)
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator
Posts: 7,318
Quoted from misspudding
My son was put on a salicylate drug as an anti-inflammatory for Crohn's, and he got a lot worse. When we quit the drug and explained the reason why to his pediatric gastroenterologist, he said, "It's very unlikely the drug made him worse."


While on an individual basis your son got worse, the doc may be correct in a more general way. He just doesn't know that your son may be an exception to what he knows.

"Very unlikely" is not equal to impossible. Continue to be patient with him.

Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 5 - 16
Possum
Tuesday, July 15, 2014, 11:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
Posts: 5,410
Gender: Female
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 53
Misspudding this is fascinating (and well explained) Glad your son is  doing better!! Thanks so much for posting those links too!!
As a part Explorer I have trouble with all fruits, except bananas and apricots!! (I suspect my Hunter husband does too) Lots of brightly coloured vegetables make me react too, but oddly enough I don't think it is salicylates with me as chia seeds don't bother me at all and are actually healing?! (Even though they come from the mint family, so technically are high in salicylates)
Must be phenols that make me react?! Certainly phenols in perfumes, airfresheners and perfumes make me react the same way as certain foods do!!
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 6 - 16
misspudding
Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 5:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Lloyd, perhaps that's why steroids are used to reduce inflammation enough (induction) and then the salicylate drugs are used from there (remission). I'm guessing most Crohn's patients wouldn't do well with the salicylate drugs off the bat.

Possum, no clue about chia seeds. I know they're high in omega-3s, so overall anti-inflammatory. Phenols include things like tannins, quercetin (!), flavanoids/flavones, gallic acid, etc. It's a very big group. I know I can't handle more than a small amount of black tea before I get a migraine, and that's the tannins.

I'm so glad you guys are all learning something! It's a really interesting area of research and something I never would have known about if it wasn't for my son and his problems. Hopefully, you all can get some useful tidbits to help heal your guts!  


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 7 - 16
Possum
Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 7:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
Posts: 5,410
Gender: Female
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 53
Quoted from misspudding
Phenols include things like tannins, quercetin (!), flavanoids/flavones, gallic acid, etc. It's a very big group. I know I can't handle more than a small amount of black tea before I get a migraine, and that's the tannins.
Yeah I can't do black or green tea without a reaction (altho' not migraine)

Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 8 - 16
Amazone I.
Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 10:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 16,375
Gender: Female
Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 57
I was persuated that polyphenols are ok for us but we do have merely problems with the fruit sugars...instead ... ...


and as I was thinking... a detournement of Polyphenols are seen as antioxidants...anticancerogen etc.... and I think it's right what I mentioned above... merely all sugars cause problems in all non-secretors!


MIfHI K-174

Revision History (1 edits)
Amazone I.  -  Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 11:19am
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 9 - 16
Maria Giovanna
Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 1:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher
Kyosha Nim
Language Expert
Posts: 1,859
Gender: Female
Location: Italy
Age: 53
My dad , me and my older nephew are very sensitive in the nose and have easily nose bleeds. I am celiac , my nephew lactose intiolerant and very allergic all the family, my brother is 90 % celiac too.... he want not to admit... thanks for the info


INTJ Italy celiac��
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 10 - 16
misspudding
Wednesday, July 16, 2014, 11:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how much the different components of food can really affect us. Once your gut is healed, the polyphenols and salicylates (because they're in EVERYTHING) are generally really good for you Amazone! But you have to remove them from your diet for 3-6 months (hence the black dot) in some cases, or cook the hell out of them for a period of time, in order to heal. This was a huge a-ha moment for me when I figured it out.

Maria Giovanna, yeah, it's pretty surprising. I also just figured out biotin is synthesized by gut bacteria, too. Got acne or cradle cap beyond infancy? It's probably a gut problem. I've struggled with acne for years, and DS had cradle cap until very recently (he's 9!).


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 11 - 16
Possum
Thursday, July 17, 2014, 12:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Explorer/Gatherer
Ee Dan
Posts: 5,410
Gender: Female
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 53
Quoted from misspudding
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how much the different components of food can really affect us. Once your gut is healed, the polyphenols and salicylates (because they're in EVERYTHING) are generally really good for you Amazone! But you have to remove them from your diet for 3-6 months (hence the black dot) in some cases, or cook the hell out of them for a period of time, in order to heal. This was a huge a-ha moment for me when I figured it out
Yeah some great aha moments/reminders there!! I *think* I am even ok with stewed apples - if the right apples and peeled and cooked for a long time?!

Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 12 - 16
misspudding
Thursday, July 17, 2014, 12:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Glad this is such useful information for everyone. I certainly couldn't keep it in!


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 13 - 16
yaeli
Friday, July 25, 2014, 3:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 2,552
Gender: Female
Location: Yerushalayim, Israel
Age: 66
You may find interest in the following:

http://www.polyphenols-site.com/


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 14 - 16
ayaka
Friday, July 25, 2014, 3:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT4 Explorer 57% ; SuperTaster ; RH+
Summer: Realization, expansion.
Posts: 55
Gender: Female
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
Thanks for sharing the links!

the number listings really interests me!

To those who have an allergic reaction to salicyclates/ phenols, are you rh negative?

What possible reaction will you get when you ingest either or both of the above?

I can't tell if i'm sensitive to phenols, but i'm sensitive to topical application of salicyclates on my skin


ENTP among familiar surroundings, INTP everywhere else
SWAMI made me enemies with all my favourite foods, but i've made new friends along the way. Aiming for more MUSCLE!!!

Revision History (1 edits)
ayaka  -  Friday, July 25, 2014, 3:44am
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 15 - 16
misspudding
Friday, July 25, 2014, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
Posts: 956
Gender: Female
Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Rh negative people are generally more prone to autoimmunity, right, which is linked to gut health. The phenol/salicylate issue seems linked to gut health.


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 16 - 16
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
Print Print Thread

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Phenols - Hunters and Explorers

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread