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Explorer with Vitamin D sensitivity?  This thread currently has 4,746 views. Print Print Thread
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misspudding
Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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Location: Seattle
Age: 37
Anyone have any experience with supplementing with vitamin D and having ill-effects?

My D levels were tested about two months ago, following a complaint of back pain at my PCP. My number was 25 (can't remember the units), but 30 and above is supposed to be the bare minimum.

I started supplementing with 2,000 IU and, occasionally, I'd take an extra to be at 3,000 or 4,000 IU, but most days was at 2,000. After a week or two, I started noticing a metallic taste in my mouth, periodically.

Then I started getting a little bit of diarrhea and nausea in the morning, but it was pretty minor.

And then I started getting more metal taste and always diarrhea and cramps in the morning. And though I was doing PT for my back and it was getting better after the first couple of weeks, I was starting to get much more sore, to the point where I needed a heating pad every night, just to function. It didn't make any sense. My fingers and toes felt like they were on fire, like pins and needles. But it wasn't constant. Sometimes I'd be okay. A few nights, I woke up feeling like I had the stomach flu. Couldn't eat very much and just felt awful.

I had a stool work up. Nothing.

Finally, I googled "vitamin D metal taste muscle pain". Metal taste, nausea, and pain are all symptoms of too much D. What the heck? Even if I'm deficient?

Any Explorers have hypersensitivity to D?


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
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misspudding
Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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Oh, also, I finally stopped taking the D about three days ago. No more pins and needles, no more metal taste. Feel like I can function. No more need for heating pad.


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
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Adopted4
Saturday, October 6, 2012, 3:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Live Life Joyfully 42% Teacher
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Maybe it's the difference between D2 or D3. I thought I've heard in the past that one can have side effects, but I"m not sure which one. I'll keep an eye on my Explorer son as I recently started him on a daily regiment of liquid Vitamin D since we're entering the cold and flu season and we get less sun this time of year.


Coleen ISF-J, Non-Taster
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:26-27
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misspudding
Saturday, October 6, 2012, 9:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Adopted4, it turns out treatment for vitamin D deficiency can bring out an underlying magnesium deficiency, since it is consumed/used during the body's processing of D with calcium. Most Americans get enough calcium, but not magnesium, especially if they consume dairy (I do eat mozzerella every other day).

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cofactors/magnesium/

I had been taking my D with calcium and potassium, but didn't think anything about magnesium. I figured my twice weekly epsom salt soaks would do the trick, but now I suspect I've been dealing with a whopper of a magnesium deficiency for years (anxiety, insomnia, muscle cramps, migraines, seizures).


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
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Adopted4
Sunday, October 7, 2012, 2:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Live Life Joyfully 42% Teacher
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Thanks for the info on magnesium deficiency. I've also been following the other thread on magnesium deficiency in 80% of individuals. We (our entire family) have recently been supplementing with a good calcium citrate and magnesium supplement with the ideal 2/1 ratio which is supposedly optimal for absorption.

I have to ask, do you find eating mozzarella cheese increases nasal mucous, even though it is a superfood for Explorers? I wonder if other Explorers have sinus issues like my Explorer son does. Right now I have him off all dairy products temporarily due to the fact that he is recovering from a pretty bad cold and his sinus issues tend to linger for a while afterwards. My dh and I were out of state for 2 weeks while he stayed at my parents house and ate pretty poorly for his blood type the whole time he was there.


Coleen ISF-J, Non-Taster
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:26-27
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 6:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Some individuals need more magnesium; sometimes a 1:1 ratio is better than the usual 2:1 ratio. Also, it can be very hard to absorb magnesium orally; magnesium "oil" on the skin may be a better choice (instead of or in addition to taking it orally.)

I find that any cow's milk products lead to nasal congestion. Mozzarella cheese is definitely a problem for me, but then again it's an "avoid" on my SWAMI. Does your Explorer son have a SWAMI or is he following the diet from the book? If he's on the "book diet" then you most likely need to tweak things. Even SWAMI isn't perfect; lots of people have issues with dairy and just don't do well even on their SWAMI diamond cheeses.

Keep him off dairy until he's healed, then  try the beneficial and diamond cheeses individually and see how he responds. He may do fine on his beneficial cheeses, or he may do fine on goat milk cheeses but not cow's milk (or only on sheep milk cheeses, or only on cow but not goat, etc.) We're all individuals.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


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Mayflowers
Thursday, October 11, 2012, 2:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from misspudding
Oh, also, I finally stopped taking the D about three days ago. No more pins and needles, no more metal taste. Feel like I can function. No more need for heating pad.


What brand were you taking? I am allergic to the D3 from Lamb's wool, which is most brands now.
The only one I can tolerate is the fish oil vitamin D from Blue Bonnet. It's 2,000 ius per capsule
I take 2 capsules a day with dinner.  I started out at 25 myself.. I got up to 40 then dropped to 38 because I was taking it in the morning..body not absorbing it. Now I take it with dinner with magnesium and a multi mineral.  I'm due for a level check.
http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Vitamin-D3-2000-IU-250-Softgels/11865


We also have an ongoing Vitamin D thread here:
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-pres/m-1305642725/s-new/#num409

To post concerns.
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Dianne
Thursday, October 11, 2012, 5:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 815


What brand were you taking? I am allergic to the D3 from Lamb's wool, which is most brands now.
The only one I can tolerate is the fish oil vitamin D from Blue Bonnet. It's 2,000 ius per capsule
I take 2 capsules a day with dinner.  I started out at 25 myself.. I got up to 40 then dropped to 38 because I was taking it in the morning..body not absorbing it. Now I take it with dinner with magnesium and a multi mineral.  I'm due for a level check.
http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Vitamin-D3-2000-IU-250-Softgels/11865


We also have an ongoing Vitamin D thread here:
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-pres/m-1305642725/s-new/#num409

To post concerns.


I did not know that about it being derived from lanolin. It's making me rethink some of the breathing problems that are not around when I run out of my vit. D3! Thanks for this Mayflowers.
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SBGGJRP
Thursday, January 3, 2013, 1:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a helpful thread---as I was also taking high amounts of D3 about a year ago. After about 6 months of 2,000 to 5,000 iu per day I began having intense pains in my legs. Stopping the vitamin D stopped the pains---as long as I didn't take any other vitamin supplements. Vitamin D in large amounts caused me to need much more potassium; and large amounts of vitamin D seemed to drastically lower my cortisol levels and/or increase inflammation through out the body!
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DoS
Thursday, January 3, 2013, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The side effects are probably other problems being expressed. Just because there are effects does not mean they are bad.

Pins and needles is often associated with low calcium too. (or perhaps increasing after having low)

Diarrhea I consider to be good if it isn't just clear water hemorrhaging, and doesn't go on for too long. Usually it means the immune system is actually working again.  
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Mayflowers
Thursday, January 3, 2013, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from SBGGJRP
This is a helpful thread---as I was also taking high amounts of D3 about a year ago. After about 6 months of 2,000 to 5,000 iu per day I began having intense pains in my legs. Stopping the vitamin D stopped the pains---as long as I didn't take any other vitamin supplements. Vitamin D in large amounts caused me to need much more potassium; and large amounts of vitamin D seemed to drastically lower my cortisol levels and/or increase inflammation through out the body!


If one increases one supplement you cause a need by the body for the other vitamins and minerals. If one raises a supplement, one should increase the other supplements as well to balance it out.  So I don't recommend totally stopping the D. You should get your levels checked once a year.  You could take 1-2000 a day instead of 5,000. I take 5,000 a day plus I take all the other vitamins including multi minerals, that contain potassium and I take extra magnesium.
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misspudding
Saturday, January 5, 2013, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MTHFR, SWAMI GT4 Explorer, ENTP rationalist
Ee Dan
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So, it's been several months since I posted that. I have avoided all added vitamin D since then, cut way back on dairy supplemented with epsom salt baths (almost every night for a while) as well mag oil and mag glycinate. The magnesium was the only thing that has helped.

Feeling much better now. Not more shooting, stabbing pains, no more metal taste or GI complaints. Not quite at 100% but now I'm at the point where I'm trying to get as much nutrition as I possibly can from my diet. I'm a geologist, so I get outdoors more than most people, so I'm not as concerned about vitamin D anymore, even though I live in the Seattle area...but my ancestors were mostly nortwestern European and Alpine. They were already pasty white to begin with and presumably had adapted/evolved to a very similar climate.


Me: Celiac type gut problems; seizure disorder; MTHFR  DS: O negative; "atypical" IBD - SWAMI 44% Explorer
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Dr Jacquie
Friday, January 11, 2013, 2:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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In America, serum 25 Vit D levels are reported in ng/dL or μg/L, and the reference range for healthy people with no medical condition and 'normal' sun exposure is 30 - 80 μg/L (75 - 200 nmol/L).

Conventional treatment with 25 hydroxyvitamin D has been indicated in osteopenia and osteoporosis when serum levels go below 30 μg/L (75 nmol/L).

A new treatment target for patients with medical conditions that may be associated with vitamin D deficiency is a serum range of 50 -60 μg/L (125 - 150 nmol/L). Vitamin D levels in supplemented individuals should be monitored carefully testing in 1 to 3 months after 2 weeks off vitamin D supplementation in the last 5 years.

Thanks to the research and clinical studies done by Michael Holick et. al, there has been great interest in supplementing with vitamin D for its relationship to supporting the immune system and the effect on immune health including effects on Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, multiple sclerosis, osteoarthritis, schizophrenia and depression, and cancer prevention, especially skin cancer. Vitamin D supplementation has also been important when incorporated with a sensible diet and supplementing other vitamin and mineral deficiencies and restoring gut health for malabsorption, chronic kidney disease, increased catabolism of Vitamin D from anticonvulsants, statins, corticosteroids, synthetic hormone replacement therapy, immunosuppressants, highly reactive antiviral therapy for AIDS, certain certain anti-hypertensive drugs.

Contraindications for megadosing with vitamin D include patients with sarcoidosis and patients taking high doses of calcium supplements.

There has been some concerns generated from an electrical engineer, Trevor Marshall, who named a cure called the Marshall Protocol after he 'cured' himself with for his sarcoidosis massive doses of antibiotics for years along with a angiotensin II receptor blocker whose side effect is to block the formation of active vitamin D. He promotes his therapy with a biofilm researcher, Amy Proal claiming that vitamin D is immunosuppressive. This claim is based on the research that found abnormal activity of endometrial vitamin D receptor sites associated with bacteremia and Hashimoto's (an autoimmune disorder). With one broad stroke Marshall and Proal make the conclusion that all autoimmune disease is due to biofilm proliferation and the culprit is vitamin D supplementation and sunlight. However, claiming that vitamin D and sunlight suppresses the immune system goes against current research and evolutionary history.

Any association with symptoms emerging during megadosing with vitamin D should be addressed by physicians who are educated in Vitamin D therapy who can perform a serum parathyroid hormone test to determine if high serum 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin D (the active form) is a problem. If muscle pain is occurring, magnesium, potassium or even toxic metals or drug metabolites are more likely the culprit. It turns out that magnesium and zinc deficiency is prevalent in modern culture because of the paucity of the nutrient value of today's fruits and vegetables, depletion from environmental xenobiotics, many drugs, chronic and acute diarrhea, malabsorption,  as well as when there is increased need for magnesium, zinc and potassium in cellular repair. Often magnesium and zinc deficiencies are evident in autoimmune diseases due to the overriding humeral immunity in response to dysfunction of mitochondrial cellular respiration in these sufferers.

References:
Holick, Michael. Review Article Vitamin D Deficiency. N Engl J Med 2007;357:266-81.

Ponsonby A-L, McMichael A, van der Mei I. Ultraviolet radiation and autoimmune disease: insights from epidemiologi- cal research. Toxicology 2002;181-182:71- 8.
Holick MF. Clinical efficacy of 1,25- dihydroxyvitamin D3 and its analogues in the treatment of psoriasis. Retinoids 1998; 14:12-7.

Plotnikoff GA, Quigley JM. Prevalence of severe hypovitaminosis D in patients with persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain. Mayo Clin Proc 2003;78:1463- 70.

Proal et al.: Dysregulation of Vitamin D Nuclear Receptor. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences (PMID: 19758159) (c) Copyright, 2009, New York Academy of Sciences.


Dr. Jacqueline Greenfield NMD ND MRN Lic. Ac. MIfHI, IfHI Board of Directors
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Mayflowers
Friday, January 11, 2013, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dr Jacquie
In America, serum 25 Vit D levels are reported in ng/dL or μg/L, and the reference range for healthy people with no medical condition and 'normal' sun exposure is 30 - 80 μg/L (75 - 200 nmol/L). .


Here again, is why each person is individual. I was getting deathly sick with my levels at 25. I didn't not stop contracting viruses and most bacterial infections..mostly in my throat until my D level was above 40.  Dr. Oz states that D levels should be at least 50.  I agree with him.  
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Spring
Friday, January 11, 2013, 6:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And here is something else to consider and it is important:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cofactors/vitamin-k/
A quote:
Vitamins K2 and D3
When supplementing with vitamin D, your body's ability to absorb calcium is greatly enhanced. Since many people already receive a good amount of calcium through diet - with some people supplementing calcium in addition - an optimal vitamin K intake is essential when supplementing with vitamin D.

No wonder I have been craving things with high amounts of Vitamin K!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Brett650
Monday, February 4, 2013, 3:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Dr Jacquie
He promotes his therapy with a biofilm researcher, Amy Proal claiming that vitamin D is immunosuppressive. This claim is based on the research that found abnormal activity of endometrial vitamin D receptor sites associated with bacteremia and Hashimoto's (an autoimmune disorder). With one broad stroke Marshall and Proal make the conclusion that all autoimmune disease is due to biofilm proliferation and the culprit is vitamin D supplementation and sunlight. However, claiming that vitamin D and sunlight suppresses the immune system goes against current research and evolutionary history.
I'm confused reading this, because my understanding is that autoimmune conditions occur when the immune system is overactive (attacking the body's own tissues), not when it's suppressed. In fact Wikipedia says the treatment of autoimmune diseases is typically with immunosuppression.


SWAMI 42% Hunter; was mostly vegan until March 2012
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Spring
Monday, February 4, 2013, 5:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've seen so many different "normal" testing standards for Vitamin D from different labs they have become completely meaningless to me. Some labs say 100 is the norm while the next one says 60, etc.. I wonder if the truth were known if the 100 number means exactly the same as the 60 number, and possibly the only difference is the labs where they originate.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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susanC
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@Spring--there is a D3K2 liposomal spray supplement available.  It works well for me with no side effects.  

And similar to Dr Oz, my ND wants my D levels up to 60. I'm around 45 now.
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Monika
Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 2:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from susanC
@Spring--there is a D3K2 liposomal spray supplement available.  It works well for me with no side effects.  

And similar to Dr Oz, my ND wants my D levels up to 60. I'm around 45 now.


Can you share the name of the company who makes it? Thanks.


B+ Non-sec, MM
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Mayflowers
Sunday, February 10, 2013, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Here's one that sounds similar to what susan is using

http://www.pureformulas.com/vitamin-d3-k2-liposomal-spray-2-oz-by-now.html?

Still has lanolin in it though.

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Lloyd  -  Monday, March 11, 2013, 2:16am
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Amazone I.
Monday, February 11, 2013, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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if I remember it well so magensium is here concerned too  and should be augmented as well


MIfHI K-174
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Spring
Monday, February 11, 2013, 9:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Right now I am doing just wonderful taking the Phyto D 2000 from Dr. D. I love the way it makes me feel!!! Phooey on Big Pharma and their PRESCRIPTION GRADE HIGH DOSE (VITAMIN D3)!! It is funny, but even with my number so low, I was only sick that once a year and a half ago. And my osteopenia had even improved a little. But I don't doubt for a  minute that I am feeling a lot better even though I didn't realize I wasn't feeling great!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Monday, February 11, 2013, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Amazone I.
if I remember it well so magensium is here concerned too  and should be augmented as well


Yes, I have been taking magnesium for the last forty-five years!! Lots of it!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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