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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  How best to respond? *
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aisling
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My brother posted this on my wall today.  How can I best respond to this with the most accurate information?

I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor. This is not to say that what he is proposing isn't beneficial to people, it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read. Also, as a person who does genomics research professionally, genotypes refer to hard-coded differences in the genetic code (DNA) of an individual, while phenotypes are the expressed characteristics (leye color, jawline) that can be generated from a genotype. Differences in genotype are not always observable in phenotypes, such as in silent mutations. I'm now stepping down from my soap box.



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Drea  -  Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:30pm
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Lloyd
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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If he is willing to do enough reading he will see the scientific underpinnings.

Obviously, there are things that are theoretical would benefit from further studies and validation, but the whole is well constructed and sound. It is impossible to put together a diet that will satisfy someone who is looking for ultimate proof, the data is not there for anyone.

The genotype thing is just a name, it is not intended as he portrays it. There is a post by Dr. D on the site somewhere that explains.

There are also a couple threads that go more into how the diet is constructed, and so on. Keep looking or maybe others will link/post.
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 1:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I would send him a link to the Generative Medicine facebook group. It's run by Dr D and is very technical; most of the time I don't understand what I'm reading there.

If he posted that scientific question there, it would spark a friendly debate with others "on the same level" and he'd get his questions answered.

You need to be a member to invite your friends to the group, since it's a "closed" facebook group. If you're not yet a member yourself, PM me and I can friend you, then add you, and then you can add your brother.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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C_Sharp
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 2:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
Sa Bon Nim
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MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Averno
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 4:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
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With all due respect, aisling, your brother's words sound typical of the conventional medicine community. The same people that brought us the current xenobiotic approach to pharmacological medicine, which in my estimation will go down in history as a hideous misadventure.

A friend said to me this weekend "No wheat? That's ridiculous! Everyone eats wheat!" All I could think of to say in reply was "Have you not noticed that we're all sick, and that conventional medicine doesn't make us healthy? It only shifts us into different illnesses".

I have lost 45 lbs and never felt better than on this diet. My primary care physician recently looked at my now-improved-to-normal vital statistics and announced that the diet connection was "Unrelatable, probably due to eliminating junk food".

Well, in a manner of speaking, exactly!

The conventional food supply is not safe. Neither is the conventional approach to medicating it's attendant maladies.
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Lloyd
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 6:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from Averno


I have lost 45 lbs and never felt better than on this diet. My primary care physician recently looked at my now-improved-to-normal vital statistics and announced that the diet connection was "Unrelatable, probably due to eliminating junk food".


There is a saying that comes in many forms and colors by many people, essentially:

"what you know is more dangerous than what you don't know"

As someone who has suffered at times from modern medicine, and I have noted both here and on the blog, I still appreciate that modern medicine is the best currently available treatment for many things.
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Averno
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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Lloyd, I agree, to be perfectly honest. And I do appreciate the point you've made of the danger in one's being more curious than wise. It's that semantically vague term "wellness" that makes it all so compelling...

My concern is that modern medicine is so often behind the curve regarding nutrition--especially where it intersects with disease prevention. In terms of conveyance, at least. "Eat whole grains and low-fat foods" isn't enough information on that front.



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Averno  -  Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 8:48pm
Clarity.
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For some of us, eating whole grains and low-fat is counter-productive!


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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D.L.
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Along the same lines, when I told my heart doctor (a heart surgeon) that I was studying everything I could find about the heart, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, his response was "oh, no!"
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Goldie
Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Respecting your brothers opinion would be best served if you just make great healing progress and stay healthy and well.  Let him have his opinion, everyone can have one, pro pr con.. It does not matter much.  What matters is how the person comes here, as a sick person getting to understand and then feel better is one way, the other is being well enough needing no help for now, and letting them just wait to see how we fare in 25 years and how they are faring..

The sacrifices WE make are big, we give up much, willingly, no one could make us do it if it was not voluntary..  Forcing great changes does not work.. even in AA 97 % fail.. (even if millions succeed) .. most still find compliance difficult.. Respecting each other is most important, arguing will never get us any where.. I have tried it for 19 years.. takes to much effort, and ruins a nice day..  

BUT I would like to have any nay sayer show me scientific 'products' by scientists where food is concerned and ask them to show their doctors education in the Science of food stuffs.. I mean why not turn the tables.. friendly like. and let it go, later..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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grey rabbit
Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 1:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamix 47% Teacher-INFP
Kyosha Nim
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As long as your brother is not trying to force you to change, I would leave him alone with his opinions - he has a right to them, go on about your business and get healthy You will not succeed in changing his mind, he will have to change it himself.

As far as conventional medicine goes, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water
Quoted Text
... I still appreciate that modern medicine is the best currently available treatment for many things.
I agree.


“Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It’s perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we’ve learned something from yesterday.”

John Wayne's last words
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Chloe
Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 1:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
Along the same lines, when I told my heart doctor (a heart surgeon) that I was studying everything I could find about the heart, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, his response was "oh, no!"






"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Dr. D
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Quoted Text
I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor.


True. Not sure just how important.


Quoted Text
This is not to say that what he is proposing isn't beneficial to people, it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read.


Depends on what he has read.

Quoted Text
Also, as a person who does genomics research professionally, genotypes refer to hard-coded differences in the genetic code (DNA) of an individual, while phenotypes are the expressed characteristics (leye color, jawline) that can be generated from a genotype.


True, but the term 'GenoType' (note use of capitals) here is being used as a device for the popular imagination. The book itself is quite clear that it really refers to 'epigenotypes' a cross between genotype and phenotype. The publisher was offered the term 'Epigenotypes' but declined to use it.


Quoted Text

Differences in genotype are not always observable in phenotypes, such as in silent mutations.


True, although he does not seem to know we are talking about epigenetics not deterministic genetics.  


Quoted Text
I'm now stepping down from my soap box.


Seems like a nice guy.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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Dr. D  -  Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:35pm
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Dr. D
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Hey, why not tell you brother to boot up FireFox and mosey  over to DataPunk Quodlibet? He might get a kick out of it..

http://www.datapunk.net/quodlibet/quodlibet.pl


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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C_Sharp
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 2:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from aisling
My brother posted this on my wall today.  How can I best respond to this with the most accurate information?

I think its important to note that D'Adamo is an ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) rather than a medical doctor.   ... it just doesn't seem to be science from what I've read. ...


You have some MDs that are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Physicians. You also have some MDs that are marginal at best.

This is also true of NDs. Some are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Naturopathic Physicians. There are also some NDs that are marginal at best.

Dr. D'Adamo is recognized as one of the top Naturopathic Physicians in the world that has really furthered the profession and developed new treatments approaches to naturopathic medicine.

The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians named him Physician of the Year in 1990.

He is currently in charge of an academic program in generative medicine at the University of Bridgeport.

In addition to his work at University of Bridgeport. He has served as an Adjunct Clinical Professor at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Yes, there are difference in approach between allopathic medicine and naturopathic medicine. Hopefully, both keep the needs of patients in mind and conduct research in a way that allows treatments to be verified and reproduced by other practitioners in the field.

Dr. D'Adamo has been one of the leading developers and proponents of the Field of Generative Medicine.  This new field is different than traditional naturopathic and allopathic medicine. It combines new discoveries in genetics, biochemistry, and medicine with innovations in the field of informatics to tailor treatment to the needs of a particular patients and their unique biochemical makeup.

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians recently recognized the great potential of this new approach and their House of Delegates just approved the Institute of Naturopathic Generative Medicine as a professional affilate of the organization.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.

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C_Sharp  -  Thursday, August 16, 2012, 7:51pm
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Goldie
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Wow and interesting!...  how now, so many other discoveries are made along the blood groups for cancer heart and other issues.. we learned this in the last Century, and now they come along and finally take notice..

I think it takes a NEW GENERATION that is open to newer ideas.. old fuddy daddies just can not fill their brains any longer and so the reaction is OH NO.. not another new thing..

I sort of REACT the same.. if you give me no time to get used to a new idea I kick back saying no.. then 5 minutes later I might change my mind, only to have boxed ME into a corner..  

NOW, if Dr D could fix my taste buds to allow me to have a life without wanting this or that, so clearly not good for me.. wow that would be a discovery..   the ultimate .. !


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Goldie
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted Text
You have some MDs that are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Physicians. You also have some MDs that are marginal at best.

This is also true of NDs. Some are at the top of their field developing innovative treatments, delivering excellent care, providing training and mentoring to new Naturopathic Physicians. There are also some NDs that are marginal at best.

Dr. D'Adamo is recognized as one of the top Naturopathic Physicians in the world that has really furthered the profession and developed new treatments approaches to naturopathic medicine.

The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians named him Physician of the Year in 1990.

He is currently in charge of an academic program in generative medicine at the University of Bridgeport.

In addition to his work at University of Bridgeport. He has served as an Adjunct Clinical Professor at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Yes, there are difference in approach between allopathic medicine and naturopathic medicine. Hopefully, both keep the needs of patients in mind and conduct research in a way that allows treatments to be verified and reproduced by other practitioners in the field.

Dr. D'Adamo has been one of the leading developers and proponents of the Field of Generative Medicine.  This new field is different than traditional naturopathic and allopathic medicine. It combines new discoveries in genetics, biochemistry, and medicine with innovations in the field of informatics to tailor treatment to the needs of a particular patients and their unique biochemical makeup.

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians recently recognized the great potential of this new approach and their House of Delegates just approved the creation of the Institute of Naturopathic Generative Medicine.


Would this be a good reply for all these sort of inquirer's?   Might make for quick 'shut off' of ongoing blah blah blah.. (I will email this to me.. to keep it and use it when needed.)    


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Spring
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I'm now stepping down from my soap box.

Quoted Text
Seems like a nice guy.


I liked that he mentioned the soap box too.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Averno
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 4:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Warrior
Kyosha Nim
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I'm encouraged by how reasoned, balanced, and constructive these responses are.
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Victoria
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
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Quoted from Averno
I'm encouraged by how reasoned, balanced, and constructive these responses are.


I agree!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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aisling
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks everyone!  My brother is a good guy, and we enjoy debating each other.  He has my best interests at heart.  I posted a status update on my FB page about how I was finally putting my health back as a priority in my life and referenced Dr. D'Adamo's work, that's how this whole thread got started.

I think, as mentioned above, that the best course of action is to give him the information and continue to feel good by following the diet and exercise guidelines.  He will see as I go how much healthier I am, and my husband and children, and then as they say the proof is in the pudding!  Make that compliant pudding, however!
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ruthiegirl
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 5:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The proof is in the chia seed pudding?

Were you able to get him into the Generative Medicine group on facebook?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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aisling
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer INFJ
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Quoted from ruthiegirl
The proof is in the chia seed pudding?

Were you able to get him into the Generative Medicine group on facebook?




Working on it!    
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DoS
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Let me say an analogy here.

If Dr. D'Adamo's AWD vehicle stops delivering power to the rear wheels because the transfer case that splits power from the engine between the front and rear wheels, he would fix the transfer case; maybe re-adjust it. From then on potentially it may never go bad. Where as an MD's approach would be to attach a new engine to the rear wheels even though it is misplaced and problematic within the car, and inferior to the originals fine operation.

Naturopathy is a way of treatment, not a measure of knowledge. I don't know any MD's that can claim making permanent changes in correcting pathology. That is unless they use gene therapy; which often works for some and kills others.


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yaeli
Thursday, August 16, 2012, 6:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Averno
A friend said to me this weekend "No wheat? That's ridiculous! Everyone eats wheat!"
I am sure that many reacted with the same logic to the Ten Commandments.

We received them 5 thousands years ago, and look how do we look.



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