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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Epigenetic pressures for ectomorphy?
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Epigenetic pressures for ectomorphy?  This thread currently has 1,438 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Friday, July 6, 2012, 12:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
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It's pretty plain the GTD book that scarcity/starvation conditions in one generation creates a strong epigenetic predisposition for the next generation toward obesity (and therefore endomorphism). Ectomorphic people experience more developmental focus on the skin and nervous system, as opposed to the mesomorph focus on skeletal muscle and the cardiovascular system and the endomorphic focus on efficient digestion and metabolic thriftiness. To my understanding, the mesomorph build is the "ideal", and variations from that suggest less than ideal epigenetic conditions.
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Adopted4
Friday, July 6, 2012, 7:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My husband and I were just talking about what conditions predispose a person towards obesity. He used to be quite thin in his younger years, but during his 30's he started getting rounder and now in his 40's is finding it very difficult to lose weight. He's a type O hunter, but probably has some gatherer thriftiness. His mother has always been an avid "dieter" all her life. She has always been a smoker and has abused alcohol off and on during her life. Although it's certain she drank some alcohol while pregnant with him, my husband does not exhibit the obvious symptoms of fetal alcohol syndrome (praise God). I remember reading in Dr. D's genotype diet book that not only does alcohol deprive a fetus of much needed oxygen, but cigarette smoking does also. That oxygen deprivation apparently has a direct correlation to the thrifty genes that often later in life "come home to roost". So, given all those circumstances, it's understandable why weight loss is not coming easily.

TJ, are you saying that as a Nomad you believe your mesomorphic build makes your potential longevity superior to other genotypes? That's interesting because my 16 year old Nomad son has been relatively healthy as a child and now his physique is looking much more like a man and less like a child, although he's not that tall he is looking very strong these days from weight training and Tae Kwon Do.


Coleen ISF-J, Non-Taster
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:26-27
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Easy E
Friday, July 6, 2012, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Guess it depends on the conditions.  If there is a lack of food, an endomorph could prob make it longer, being more thrifty.  

I am meso-ectomorphic.  I was in the hospital for like 6 weeks, and due to lack of eating enough, i lost 50 pounds.  I was 160 and down to about 110 in 6 weeks.  I had a lot of muscle i burned off, and very little body fat to use for the "famine." I had a staph infection and orthpedic trauma my body was fighting.  My white cell count was high for awhile too, and I also recieved a lot of blood transfusions from either O- or A+.  

Much longer, i would have wasted away!  A thrifty metabolism would not have had this happen probably , and an ectomorph prob would not have been able to take this abuse before giving out.

But when there is plenty of food, being endomorphic is very tough since they keep weight easily.  Being ectomorphic helps a lot in hot climates, where as being endomorphic is great for cold climates.  Mesomorphic does not do well with such extremes i would think.  Guess it takes all of us to make the world go round!



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TJ
Saturday, July 7, 2012, 5:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Adopted4
TJ, are you saying that as a Nomad you believe your mesomorphic build makes your potential longevity superior to other genotypes?
I wish I could say something like that. I'm very ectomorphic: 5'10", 135 lbs. The heaviest I've ever been is 170, and that was before BTD. After the initial BTD weight loss, the heaviest I've been is 150.

Quoted from Easy E
Being ectomorphic helps a lot in hot climates, where as being endomorphic is great for cold climates.  Mesomorphic does not do well with such extremes i would think.  Guess it takes all of us to make the world go round!
The climate tolerance is something I hadn't considered. I know endomorphs who wear shorts year-round. I don't usually put them on until the temp is 90+ degrees.

Any thoughts on what epigenetic pressures might cause you to develop a twitchy, oversensitive nervous system?
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DoS
Saturday, July 7, 2012, 5:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I know why you ask. What makes ectomorphism valuable? I think it might be more than ecto-mesomorph is valuable in particular. In fact much more ideal for running long distances. The problem is when you lose the propensity for muscle through not exercising or eating right, you get an ectomorph. That is my guess. Just like Endo-mesomorph isn't so bad, but when you lose the need for the muscle and you just get an endo then heart disease etc is even easier because of lower metabolism (naturally).

I'm not sure I would claim mesomorphs are ideal. They are not ideal for hunting game at long distances, only short bursts (worked out really shitty for Neanderthals since animals out-evolved them and would just run away) and mesomorphs without an endomorphic quality are not ideal for waging war or surviving famine. They are strangely not that ideal except in contemporary society.

But everyone is different in vastly different ways. My body can totally be working awful, eating way too little, won't lose weight. Other things stop working right, but it is like I just can't die from any of it. It doesn't have longevity of eating very little to survive so much though... I think I'd just die abruptly from inability to use stored energy (or maybe heart failure from build up unassociated with fats ingested, seriously I get congestion not eating any wrong fats from any sources). Thing is I don't like I could say I have any endomorphic qualities, I'm just fat consequently from other issues. The fat doesn't sway how my body functions since it doesn't change based on how little I eat. It only seems to change based on what I eat (mainly trying to get enough nutrients of the correct ones).

Thriftyness among Type O is only sort of advantageous, it actually is just not what you want. There are too many complications from not enough protein, which seems to happen when there is the right amount of carbohydrates also around. Healthy people will likely have off spring as hunters after so many generations, I would guess. Type A is like the opposite, but warriors are really healthy when young and not affected by low amounts of stuff at young age. Kinda funny huh...
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rAw warrior
Saturday, July 7, 2012, 5:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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This part of the book confused me because I got the same impression and yet I'm an ectomorph and my mom had a healthy diet during her pregnancy with me.  Granted, she wasn't eating right for her type so maybe that affects things?  I'm not sickly thin or anything - I do have muscle and curves but at 5'1" I'm naturally on 90 lbs.  My brother is even thinner for his height. He is like a tall stick.
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Easy E
Saturday, July 7, 2012, 9:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Any thoughts on what epigenetic pressures might cause you to develop a twitchy, oversensitive nervous system?[/quote]

Maybe part of being more reactive?  Perhaps its all related.

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TJ
Sunday, July 8, 2012, 4:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Good point, E.

Maybe cues that you are in a dangerous environment where you have to be alert/"twitchy" to stay alive?
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rAw warrior
Sunday, July 8, 2012, 2:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Possibly the mom being stressed a lot while the baby is in the womb?  I know my mom is an A so actually that might make sense.  
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DoS
Sunday, July 8, 2012, 10:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I doubt it. Womb stress is probably more likely to give an Explorer, than just change somatype. I think for Type A it just comes with inheritance from mixing when it is a warrior. If the circumstances are not set that made warriors proficient GenoTypes, then there is no pressure for prevalence of the physical features.

I really wish I knew what you looked like so I could help myself identify other warriors that are not typical or beyond obvious.
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Adopted4
Monday, July 9, 2012, 12:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So, let me ask you this DoS? How does one genotype as a Warrior with a type O mother and type A father that possesses mostly Teacher traits whose parents were both much shorter than he is? My dad does not have the oblong, egg-shaped head that I have, and as I said my grandparents were both very small which is not typical of Warriors. So I"m not quite sure how I turned out a Warrior (with some Explorer tendencies, though). I don't remember my moms father much since he died when I was very young, but I think he was tall and perhaps a Warrior if he was a type A (which I"m unsure of) and mom's mom was very short so unlikely a type  A Warrior. I understand a little about biology and my understanding is that to acquire a recessive gene the recessive trait has to be present on both the maternal and paternal sides.

By the way DoS, if you're curious about my Warrior facial features, you can go to our family website at http://www.rengerts.com and our home page has my facebook profile picture.

Interesting topic you started TJ.


Coleen ISF-J, Non-Taster
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:26-27
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Johnny B.
Monday, July 9, 2012, 2:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There is no "ideal" somatotype, only ones best suited for the organism's environment.
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DoS
Monday, July 9, 2012, 2:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Adopted4
So, let me ask you this DoS? How does one genotype as a Warrior with a type O mother and type A father that possesses mostly Teacher traits whose parents were both much shorter than he is? My dad does not have the oblong, egg-shaped head that I have, and as I said my grandparents were both very small which is not typical of Warriors. So I"m not quite sure how I turned out a Warrior (with some Explorer tendencies, though). I don't remember my moms father much since he died when I was very young, but I think he was tall and perhaps a Warrior if he was a type A (which I"m unsure of) and mom's mom was very short so unlikely a type  A Warrior. I understand a little about biology and my understanding is that to acquire a recessive gene the recessive trait has to be present on both the maternal and paternal sides.


1st question, likely good health conditions, and don't be surprised if there are warriors farther back than paternal.

Statement about shortness and warriorhood: Wrong Dr. D has specifically stated that it was normal, and expected, to trace linage from warriors to small people that didn't eat lot.

I think you are missing the point, without need you'll start to get combinations of everything. Also expression changes by a few generations more than just one. Just some are more typical. Mediterranean life that most likely spawned most warriors was over the span of many centuries and then had a quick die off of necessity for the features. Personally I find that people that are like 50+ years old represent the classic genotypes much better than people in their 20's or younger these days.

Maybe this will help... if the U.S. has the most millionaires, but you only know one personally, if that, it doesn't mean the statistic is bogus. It just means you don't know them. Some people only know millionaires. Demographics do not exist based on a handful of people's perception. Furthermore you might think some millionaires you know or know of, are not true millionaires because technically they are worth that mount but don't have that amount on hand. Variations in demographics are normal, but on a large scale you will see patterns that make them a demographic. Those patterns for GenoTypes have less to do with physical appearance, and more to do with phenotyical expression in response to food and exercise. Everything else is purely correlation and not a rule for response; but helpful identifiers for those of us without extensive personal labs for testing.




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TJ
Monday, July 9, 2012, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Johnny B.
There is no "ideal" somatotype, only ones best suited for the organism's environment.
Granting that, the question remains: what environment is an ectomorph best suited for?
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rAw warrior
Monday, July 9, 2012, 3:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DoS
I doubt it. Womb stress is probably more likely to give an Explorer, than just change somatype. I think for Type A it just comes with inheritance from mixing when it is a warrior. If the circumstances are not set that made warriors proficient GenoTypes, then there is no pressure for prevalence of the physical features.

I really wish I knew what you looked like so I could help myself identify other warriors that are not typical or beyond obvious.


Thank you for the thorough answer.

I thought I was pretty typical though other than not being tall or having a unibrow, egg head, almond-shaped jaw and face (my face is squarish round).  I am skinny with a high waist to hip ratio which it says is a trait of the warrior - that or being a meso-endomorph. For all I know, SWAMI might type me as something different (doubt it, but we'll see). Stroke and heart disease run in my family which is why I also believe I'm the Warrior.
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DoS
Monday, July 9, 2012, 5:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Granting that, the question remains: what environment is an ectomorph best suited for?


There isn't one, really. It is just a condition that happens when there is no need to excel in body, in the environment, and you are starting on smaller frames to start. That is what I see anyway.

The only probable thing would be if you had to run long distances, like marathons, all the time. Even so lots of ecto-meso people hold records for that. Plus when you arrive at your prey, you have to be able to kill it right.

You could argue being an ectomorph in our environment now is to advantage. No weight gain, wear anything you want, etc.

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TJ
Thursday, July 12, 2012, 2:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from DoS
You could argue being an ectomorph in our environment now is to advantage. No weight gain, wear anything you want, etc.
Yeah, until some meso or endo comes along and beats the tar out of you.
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DoS
Thursday, July 12, 2012, 4:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
Yeah, until some meso or endo comes along and beats the tar out of you.


Uh, maybe you should live somewhere else... Besides they just want to beat you because the women like ecto's.
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TJ
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 4:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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So I should start an ectomorph colony? I thought they already had one in Hollywood...
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DoS
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 7:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think they do.

I just thought of something.

Ectomorphy seems to come from the lack of epigenetic pressure (in general). To you know rephrase the original question into a phrase that would present a better question perhaps, like "why does lack of epigenetic pressure cause ectomorphy?" That question is interesting because even when there isn't a need for the combination of some meso in ectomorphs, it seems hard to believe epigenetic pressure should just release traits so quickly.
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DoS
Sunday, July 22, 2012, 7:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ I've been thinking about this a little.

The funny thing is you are not stuck with your body as-is. You are very lucky to be Type B.

It might be challenging for you to gain muscle, but the most important part is that you can. Look at Bertil Fox or Nasser El Sonbaty. Also the world of things like climbing, triathlons, running, dancing, and whatever else you want to do, is totally open to you. You are not a Type A, you can do whatever you want. All you have to do is not let stress over take you; which takes nothing much but a little effort to stretch, yoga, or meditate on days off of exercise. You are simply not limited like some GenoTypes.

Actual physical size doesn't mean that much either... If you work out and define your body all it takes is the right clothes and it will be noticed. You have no idea how lucky you are. Plus you get to drink beer and eat cheese while doing it.
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