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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Histamine
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Histamine
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cajun
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Brinyskysail,

The vitamin C I take from my local health food store is a chewable/acerola cherry disc with no corn. I need to purchase more and cannot remember the name but it is not expensive. I will get some this weekend and report back.
I don't worry going without because I also take NAP's Proberry caps.
Good to know the list of high histamine foods! Thanks.


 Ao  ISFJ   Taster   Rh+  

"God gave us the gift of life. It is up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well." Voltaire
"Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be." Sir Paul McCartney
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Lin
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Histamine sufferers, what kinds of symptoms do you experience?
I was emailing with a friend who gets lots of different symptoms and she can't tell what causes what.
I'm curious as I had hayfever since age 3 and wonder if some of my symptoms might be connected to this.
thanks, Lin


Gluten/Casein and Yeast sensitivity.
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Chloe
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

I focus on beneficial foods that contain Vitamin C because I couldn't find Vit. C supplement that I could take and afford.


I do the same thing because all commercial C formulas contain avoids.  I take a whole lemon and squeeze it into water, add 1/2 of grapefruit cut into sections and a whole kiwi...blend, drink.  A great whole food vitamin C cocktail.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

Revision History (1 edits)
Chloe  -  Sunday, May 27, 2012, 7:07pm
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Chloe
Sunday, May 27, 2012, 2:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Check out third paragraph where it says that curcumin is a natural anti-histamine.

http://www.turmericinfo.com/curcumin_anti-inflamatory.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Spring
Monday, May 28, 2012, 12:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Not a day goes by that I don't eat some turmeric!! I think it is wonderful!! If I were eating something that turmeric wouldn't work with, I would simply take a capsule of it sometime during the day!!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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misspudding
Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So I'm doing more reading on this and I'm confused.

Supposedly if you're "overmethylated" then you'll have low histamine. If you have low levels of histamine, you won't react with a flush to low levels of the "flush" variety of niacin.

If you're "undermethylated" then you'll have high histamine. If you have high levels of histamine, you will react significantly with a flush to low levels of the "flush" variety of niacin.

Based on our genetics, my son needs more methyl groups than I do. He flushes really badly to niacin, and I don't. But I react badly to too many methyl groups, and he doesn't seem to, as bad. Though he is sensitive to too much. We're both explorers with MTHFR mutations.

Another thing I read suggests methionine is a methyl donor (it is a methyl group attached to the sulfur end of an amino acid). Methionine is high in meats and eggs and almost non-existent in plants other than grains. Is it possible the reason I'm not as big on eggs and meat compared to my hubby and son, is the difference in methylation? So low histamine people should eat less meat? Or something? (Confused!)

I'm just trying to figure out why I'm getting neuro symptoms (migraines and tinnitus) from a whole30 style elimination diet. It is a very high histamine diet. But if I'm low/normal histamine, not sure what to think. I've always quit paleo-type diets after a few months because of the neuro symptoms. I am taking folate everyday...no clue if it's enough or not for my particular genetics.


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Andrea AWsec
Thursday, May 21, 2015, 11:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Easy E
Thursday, May 21, 2015, 12:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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High histamine levels can cause more anxiety and adrenaline surges too.   Adrenaline i think helps to clear excess histamine levels.  If one finds their adrenaline spiking for small things and it is hard to come down from it, it could be a sign of high histamine levels.

A high histamine diet will further increase histamine and histamine triggers inflammation too and headaches.  Wine is high in histamine so that is why it can give one bad headaches.  I have used antihistamines for poison ivy.  In fact when i use them poison ivy does not affect me nearly as badly.  In the past i could walk near it and get a rash from it.   High histamine foods made my throat tighten up too when they touched them with lots of mucus.  But now not as bad.  Also antihistamines almost reversed it in an hour.

Lately i have not had such problems with it.  I have been taking smaller amounts of milk thistle daily and i am really starting to notice a difference.  Before i would take it like 2 weeks and stop, and not really feel any difference.  It really does take about a month to really start working.  DoS said that and it stuck with me.
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Lin
Friday, May 22, 2015, 12:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Miss Pudding how did you find out you have MTHFR mutations?  I'm interested as my Doctor has been talking to me about this and suggesting I look into testing, 23&Me is one I understand.  She told me some people with mutations have trouble with Folic Acid.  I've put my polyvite on hold for  now.

Easy E: interesting on adrenaline and histamine...I will have to pay attention as I wouldn't have connected those two things.

thanks,
Lin


Gluten/Casein and Yeast sensitivity.
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Chloe
Friday, May 22, 2015, 12:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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a list of natural anti histamine foods

http://alisonvickery.com.au/21.....tabilise-mast-cells/


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lin
Friday, May 22, 2015, 8:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Chloe,
That's a great link on the anti-histamine foods, thanks!
Lin


Gluten/Casein and Yeast sensitivity.
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misspudding
Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 10:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lin
Miss Pudding how did you find out you have MTHFR mutations?  I'm interested as my Doctor has been talking to me about this and suggesting I look into testing, 23&Me is one I understand.  She told me some people with mutations have trouble with Folic Acid.  I've put my polyvite on hold for  now.

Easy E: interesting on adrenaline and histamine...I will have to pay attention as I wouldn't have connected those two things.

thanks,
Lin


Yup, 23andme is what I used. My son was tested at the doc's office specifically for MTHFR after his Crohn's diagnosis, then we did 23andme later.

You get your 23andme results and then you can run it through Genetic Genie (do a google search). It'll give you the mutations you have for the most common, well-researched mutations. I'm homozygous for one of the MTHFR mutations and I have a history of seizures and migraines, go figure.



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Ribbit
Thursday, May 28, 2015, 12:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I haven't been on the forums in a while, but there's a lot that's happened to me over the last 18 months.   Part of it is this very thing--histamine intolerance.  

It started a year and a half ago with a severe allergic reaction to Bactrim (a sulfa drug they gave me for possible MRSA) that landed me in the ER twice. Dropped my blood pressure, gave me a full body rash, etc. My doctor said if my bp was any lower she'd put me in the hospital right then, but she knows I'm a self-treater and wouldn't stay if she sent me. At any rate, the doc put me on Benadryl for a couple of weeks.

But since then every 6-8 weeks I'd flare up with what I thought was MRSA (nobody ever tested) and hives again. One doctor said I had to quit all foods that were high in sulfur too for a while. Another doctor said I didn't have to because sulfa was different from sulfur, and it was impossible to be allergic to sulfur. I wanted to believe him, so I didn't change my diet. My diet has always been very restricted because I have Lyme disease. I didn't want to quit 95% of my diet.

The more time went on, the worse the flares got. I tried every alternative I knew to do but could only stave it off for so long (I see now that it was histamine intolerance causing hives, not just staph, that I was dealing with). Then I fell and busted my lip open and was put on yet another antibiotic, because with a history of possible MRSA they knew I was more susceptible. It healed nicely except for a grape-sized lump inside my lip that I assumed was tissue damage. Six *weeks* after the fall, my lip suddenly decided to swell. (Now that I know about HI, I know something was going on with that.) The lump inside my lip swelled up one night and I spent several hours scouring the internet and FB looking for answers. I assumed it was bacterial. Someone suggested putting a slice of raw garlic directly on the cut even though it had healed. I did so and within 10 minutes it swelled to double the size it had been! I was baffled! (Now, of course, I know about the sulfur and histamines.) I stayed up all that night 12:30 a.m. to 5:30 a.m. and finally decided I should go to the ER. I was worried that if there was a bubble of pus, it might burst and go into my bloodstream.

So I took myself in. The ER doc (I have little respect for them, BTW), said he'd lance my lip. It was walnut-sized by that time. He lanced it and there was nothing there. He shrugged and wrote me a prescription for yet another antibiotic.

That ended up destroying my gut so bad that after I took it I was passing totally undigested food. I quit eating much of anything because I'd pass lettuce and carrots looking like what I'd eaten. Probiotics didn't help. My doctor didn't know what to do. I saw an infectious disease specialist who looked at the photo of my lip that night and she said, "That's not bacterial, that's an allergic reaction!" We talked about hives and I realized that what I'd been dealing with for a year was hives, not MRSA flares. Now I have dealt with staph (possibly MRSA), but what kept flaring up was hives. She said, "Benadryl for six weeks, 'round the clock. No more sulfur foods at all."

So I was very good for several weeks. Then we went to a birthday party where I hesitantly ate a little sour cream and onions and a beer (and other foods that aren't a problem. Now before you say that it was the alcohol, you should know that I have an unusually high tolerance for it and can drink a surprising amount with no affect). In about two hours, on the way home, I told my husband I felt like I was about to have a heart attack. I started passing out, vomiting uncontrollably and, my husband said, talking jibberish. My pulse spiked to 120 and stayed there. The throwing up continued after we got home. I stayed in bed for two days with my pulse at 120. Finally I thought to use some essential oils and that brought it down.

I started asking around  on FB (people on FB know more than most doctors--I am serious) and a Lyme friend mentioned histamine intolerance. I'd never heard of such a thing, but I googled and realized I had all the symptoms. I mentioned it to both my doctors. One said, "I don't think you have HI, but I don't know what you have and I don't know who to send you to." One said, "You may have HI, but I don't know enough about it and don't know who to send you to." So once again, as usual, I'm on my own figuring out what to do.

I learned in a FB group called Histamine Intolerance about what to do and what to supplement with and I have started stuff that should help. Of course now that I know about HI, I know that onions, sour cream and beer were BAD for me. But I thought at the time the only concern I had was sulfur, not histamine. I'm off the Benadryl now and have high hopes of improving since supplementing with diamine oxidase (DAO) and Hista Block from Nature's Sunshine.  I'm also on molybdenum to help detox sulfur build-up.

I saw my ND who put me on like a dozen more supplements and they have helped a lot! My digestion is better.

I had a mold exposure a few weeks ago which spiked my pulse to over 150. We headed to the ER before I thought to use my essential oils again, but I had them with me. Within 10 minutes my pulse was down to 80. We turned around to come home. On the way we saw an EMT truck in a parking lot, so we dropped by to have my bp taken. It was so low neither of the men could get a reading. One said, "I don't know how you're standing here to us."

Anyway, now that I've learned about HI I am even more careful. This really stinks and I'm hoping all my histamine-reducing supplements and sulfur-flushing supplements can get me back to functioning.

My biggest fear in all this is that it'll spark my Lyme to flare up. I've been in remission for a while and I *like* being in remission. I'm afraid that HI and sulfur sensitivity will cause a flare. But so far I think I'm okay.



Note:  I wrote this several months ago on Facebook and saved it. I have things to add:  The *only* foods I can eat are lettuce, sweet potatoes, winter squash, turkey*, cucumbers, celery, carrots in moderation, okra, a couple of oils and a few grains.   There's not much I can eat that's actually beneficial for me. I have dropped 20 pounds.  I went several months with zero protein at all.  

*One thing you've got to understand is that meat and dairy develop histamines as they sit. So it's not just fruit.  If any meat has sat in the fridge for 24 hours, it develops histamines.  Any dairy, if it's remotely aged, is high histamine.  Many strains of probiotics elevate histamines.  The only way I can eat any protein at all is to buy a frozen turkey breast, drop it in boiling water and cook it fast, take it out and eat what I want and then freeze the rest.  If it sits anywhere during those stages, it develops histamines and I get hives and my pulse spikes.  I have also had three more ER trips with my pulse sometimes up over the 150 mark.  Again, I'd grab my essential oils on the way out the door and apply them to my chest as we went.  Within 15-20 minutes we'd turn around and come home because it would be down to 80. I am very thankful for these oils.

My ND believes that most of my problem right now is stemming from mold in the house. We have had repeated water leaks (30 year-old copper pipes and well water do not mix) and mold.  It's not a problem for most people, but evidently I'm extremely allergic to it. So my ND finally told my husband, "You can pay me to fix her, or you can pay to fix your house. What's it going to be?" Then another ND told him, "You either do $50-75,000 of professional mold remediation, or move."  So we're moving.  We bought land not too far from here and are trying to figure out how to afford to build a house.  It's gotten so bad with my heart rate and stuff that I've moved into a tent in the front yard. I can't be in the house for very long.  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Chloe
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Kyosha Nim
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WOW Ribbit, thanks for sharing your story.  What I didn't realize until I read this link below is that there is a muscular connection to high histamine....and for nearly 2 years, I'm dealing with muscle problems, although I have a long history with fibromyalgia....this is getting worse....having gone to PT since December with little progress....so going to start researching and making some tweaks to my diet....I noticed when I had food poisoning a few weeks ago and ate nothing for 2 days, my muscle and joint pains were nearly gone....so that makes me curious about some of the foods in my diet that might
be all wrong...and the awareness that high histamine is doing something different to me than it did to you and Miss P...

https://histamino.wordpress.com/category/histamine-intolerance/symptoms-of-histamine-intolerance/


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Ribbit
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I don't know, Chloe.  But I am forever grateful to you for suggesting that it was Lyme I was dealing with.  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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misspudding
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Yeah, histamine is actually a neurotransmitter in the body, so it's not all "bad". You do need some of it (especially to fight things like Lyme off!). So...it's a double-edge sword, I'm afraid.

What I've read is we have all have a certain level of DAO that we produce because of genetics. But if your gut gets damaged at all (I've been battling gluten sensitivity that's really celiac disease for decades), your gut doesn't produce DAO. So Hippocrates old "all health begins in the gut" is never truer with this scenario.

Tyramine is another thing that does similar stuff, but it gets broken down by MAO (monoamine oxidase) and there's really no way to speed it up with a supplement, unfortunately.

The biologic amines can be really bad for some people. It mainly seems to be gut health related.

Oh Ribbit, what a trip! I hope you're starting to feel better!


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Chloe
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Quoted from Ribbit
I don't know, Chloe.  But I am forever grateful to you for suggesting that it was Lyme I was dealing with.  


I'm just so happy you found a Lyme protocol that helped you heal....Your symptoms
were horrifically frightening....and it's heartwarming to me to know you got better.   As
for histamine issues....diet adjustments are do-able.... Managing toxicity from tick bites is a whole different story.

But back to histamine....I still think I still have gut issues related to having taken tons of abx...and when I stick to a clean diet without excessive histamine foods I find I have less inflammation going on in general.  Although many aged cheeses are beneficial on my
SWAMI, and they're designed to be low overgrowth for carbs creating bacteria, I can
eat some, but I rarely tolerate my recommended portions.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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cajun
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wow....thanks to all of you....MissP, Chloe and Ribbit!!! I am so glad you shared your story,also, Ribbit!!!
Because of you all I will do my research re;   my stupid sinus issues.
Ribbit, the news about the turkey...my main source of animal protein, besides salmon and cod, .... made me aware of how important it is to eat it up and not let it sit in fridge for days!!!!

Sending you prayers and healing thoughts!!!!! ((hugs))


 Ao  ISFJ   Taster   Rh+  

"God gave us the gift of life. It is up to us to give ourselves the gift of living well." Voltaire
"Whisper words of wisdom. Let it be." Sir Paul McCartney
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Chloe
Thursday, May 28, 2015, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Starting to do more research....there is a huge fibromyalgia connection to high histamine...I always wondered why I can't stand Spring, Summer and parts of Autumn...it's when mold, tree pollen, and grass exacerbates everything in my diet that is already high in histamine....I seem to level off during the winter....when it's too cold for  mold and pollen to bother me.  And it explains why I feel my best when
fasting....or just drinking lemon/water or eating simple salads...

This in particular below caught my attention from this article.  And I wonder about every person who has ever taken an antibiotic and still has some gut disturbance.  Does this issue relate to them too even if their
histamine intolerance manifests totally differently from mine.  I feel it's attacking my muscles and joints...
I had never heard of DAO....Ribbit, have you?

It appears that Histamine Intolerance and Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) are overlapping conditions. This makes sense because DAO is produced in the lining of the small intestine, which is also the location of the bacterial overgrowth.

Read more: Connecting the Dots: Does Histamine Intolerance Contribute to Fibromyalgia http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2015/03/17/fibromyalgia-histamine-intolerance-connection/

And no wonder I have absolutely no tolerance for folic acid....it raises histamine...
(not to mention that I have double MTHFR mutations)
http://www.foodsmatter.com/allergy_intolerance/histamine/articles/histamine.html


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Chloe
Friday, May 29, 2015, 12:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Does anyone understand the difference between histamine RICH foods and histamine releasing foods?  

Scroll down....it's on this page, listed separately.

http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Lin
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Miss Pudding, thanks for info on 23&Me.

Also,thanks to the rest of our friends on this thread for the additional information around this subject.
Good posts!
Lin


Gluten/Casein and Yeast sensitivity.
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I'm just glad I quit that Whole30 diet and am eating my brown rice and black beans again. Oh, they never do me wrong! LOVE!!!

I think my little guy, who has been on SCD (a paleo diet, though it does allow legumes), has been getting migraines for the last year. Because of my Whole30 experience (and his Explorer-ness), we're starting rice tomorrow!!! After he gets a stool test to confirm that he tolerates the Larch fiber with no inflammation. Since he's had no complaints over the larch, I think he'll be safe. So excited!!! I'm hoping his migraines start to go away finally (it's hard when you eat lots of nuts to make up the space between meals...).


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Amazone I.
Friday, May 29, 2015, 1:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I also observed that all kinds of stress can be culprit and trigger  histaminresponses....


MIfHI K-174
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misspudding
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Oh yeah, stress is a big trigger for a lot of things. In his case, it doesn't matter what he's doing, he still gets the headaches. And it didn't happen until this diet. So...hopeful.


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Amazone I.
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btw methionine is a fine aminoacid also in case of bladder infections... and highly found in quark-chease ... a super detoxifyer as well...


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