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Patty H
Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 2:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am still in a state of confusion about giving up wheat and dairy.  I am considered a minor blood type, with the Mg antigen.  I know that the lectin theory has been tested on the four major blood types.  I asked in an earlier thread if one would feel the negative effects of lectin damage over a long period of time and the answer was yes.  I had food intolerance testing (IgG and IgE) and wheat and dairy are fine with me according to that testing and I have never felt ill or sick from eating wheat or dairy or other avoids for that matter.  Very few foods bother me or cause intestinal distress.

Recently my daughter had the exact same food intolerance testing I had because she was having severe intestinal issues and other associated issues.  She has the same minor blood group as me but she is an O secretor.  Come to find out she is gluten and coffee intolerant.  Dairy is fine according to her testing.

This has really gotten me to thinking that maybe my individuality and genetic makeup make me an exception to the norm.  Since my daughter has the typical issues of an O to wheat, I can see that she is more the norm.  I think my husband has issues with wheat since he has joint pain and arthritis and has had two joint replacement surgeries.  His joints don't bother him as much since he has cut way back on the wheat.

Are there any other O's out there who are not bothered by either wheat or dairy or do most people have noticeable health issues when they consume wheat and dairy?


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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 3:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can tell you that most O types I know here in Denmark are not that bothered much by dairy ¨
but wheat is always really bad news

My daughter who is almost 18 years old have been on  a 90 % O diet since she was 5-6 years
I have never been very strict with dairy (she eats some organic whipping cream, cheese and lots of butter) and she seem to be ok with that  
However I have tried to keep her 99 % wheatfree.
I don´t do well with grains and especially wheat so it has not been hard for her.
She eats small ammounts of spelt, rice and rye - but in small ammounts.

When Emma eats wheat she gets moody, constipated, get skin problems and put weight on.
Normally she is a slim and very healthy child.

So I think it is very much a cultural thingy
Danes in general have a good abilty to handle dairy.


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- living with DD Emma age 19,
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Henriette Bsec
Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 3:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Oh I forgot my mum is O neg - very likely explorer.
She does ok with dairy as well
but when she eats wheat she gets astma attacs and joint pain.
She is sadly not that BTD´ish -but she does avoid the worse O toxins and eat a fairly low grain-low sugar diet.


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- living with DD Emma age 19,
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Lola
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 6:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Dr D: "IgG/IgE Food Allergy tests: antibody based reaction.

Pros: reliable procedure
Cons: false positive and negatives due to fact that antibodies to foods are often engendered by gut bacteria and other non-food origins.

Lectins/ Blood Groups: food intolerance/ agglutination reaction

Pros: predicts reactions not discernible by antibody testing
Cons: variations in degree of reaction between individuals*

* modulated in part by adding secretor type and in large part by GenoType/SWAMI additions.
The great majority of lectins are ABO specific; not specific for the minor blood groups.
/antibodies are essentially specific as to what they react to but sometimes they can react non-
specifically as well."


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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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[quote=1034][/quote]

Thanks, Lola.  I have read this before.  

My real question is if I have lectin food intolerance issues, why aren't I feeling sick like my daughter and most of the other O's on this forum?  I don't feel sick from any foods - although cooked onions can bother me and too much garlic can bother me.  That is it.

I don't get achy joints or stomach issues or brain fog, etc.


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gardengirl
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well, it is your body to play around with. This diet isn't set in stone with me, but a great starting point. I prefer to eliminate things suggested instead of adding though.
Did you start the BTD to lose weight or get more energy? I mean, if you are getting all the benefits you expected and want to try introducing wheat that is your call. I would definitely seek out organic choices though since wheat is one of the most modified organisms out there. Good luck. BTW, I would put all my faith in a food tolerance test, I had one and have been challenging it at it says a lot of things are okay for me and they are not. Specific examples are apricots, pork and sugar. Egg whites are moderate but I have had no problems with them. I started this diet very confused between elimination diets, food sensitivity tests, books, etc. It is a very individual journey and you have to be very self aware which I had (and still do) work very hard at. There was a correlation (somewhat) of my food sensitivity test and the BTD - meats were safe and carbs all registered moderate. Dairy and soy were high for me.
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geminisue
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm assuming you had your blood type checked, someone just didn't tell you what it is.

I'm saying this because a friend of mine thought she was a B and found out from her dad after mom passed away, that she (my friend) she an A.  She did get it checked to make sure then.
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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 3:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from gardengirl
Well, it is your body to play around with. This diet isn't set in stone with me, but a great starting point. I prefer to eliminate things suggested instead of adding though.
Did you start the BTD to lose weight or get more energy? I mean, if you are getting all the benefits you expected and want to try introducing wheat that is your call. I would definitely seek out organic choices though since wheat is one of the most modified organisms out there. Good luck. BTW, I would put all my faith in a food tolerance test, I had one and have been challenging it at it says a lot of things are okay for me and they are not. Specific examples are apricots, pork and sugar. Egg whites are moderate but I have had no problems with them. I started this diet very confused between elimination diets, food sensitivity tests, books, etc. It is a very individual journey and you have to be very self aware which I had (and still do) work very hard at. There was a correlation (somewhat) of my food sensitivity test and the BTD - meats were safe and carbs all registered moderate. Dairy and soy were high for me.


Gardengirl,  I started the diet to try to lower my blood pressure and avoid my family history of heart disease, including lowering my cholesterol and CRP.  The diet seemed to lower my CRP initially, but then my cholesterol and CRP really jumped much higher rather than lower.  There were other factors involved so I am not trying to imply it was the diet alone, but I can't rule it out either.  Also, the diet had no impact on my blood pressure.

I do eat organic and still don't eat wheat very often.  When I have wheat or dairy or both I feel fine.

The only things I reacted to on my IgG intolerance testing was curry, kidney beans pinto beans, string beans, corn, oysters and sardines.  I had never eaten sardines until the BTD, so that is interesting.  I was eating them at least twice a week.  I didn't react to anything on my IgE testing.

I am a little confused by your post.  Are you saying the food intolerance testing was valid in your case or wrong?  I would love clarification on that, as you say:

"BTW, I would put all my faith in a food tolerance test, I had one and have been challenging it at it says a lot of things are okay for me and they are not."

But then you go on to give specific examples of foods that I assume are not good.  Maybe you meant to say you would NOT put your faith in a food tolerance test?  Then you end with the fact that there is somewhat of a correlation between your food intolerance testing and the BTD.  Sorry but I am confused and really would like to understand if you think the testing was valid for you or not.  Thanks for helping with this  



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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from geminisue
I'm assuming you had your blood type checked, someone just didn't tell you what it is.

I'm saying this because a friend of mine thought she was a B and found out from her dad after mom passed away, that she (my friend) she an A.  She did get it checked to make sure then.


geminisue, I am definitely an O non-secretor and have a rare blood antigen, the Mg antigen, that makes me a minor blood group.  My O status was tested first by the Army.  My O status was then confirmed, along with my non-secretor status and my rare blood antigen, which runs in my family, by the American Red Cross.  The rare blood antigen is so extremely rare that my blood sample could not be analyzed at a regular lab.  The American Red Cross was the only one that could test for the rare blood antigen.  Not only do I have it but both of my kids have it, so they could have only gotten it from me.  


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ABJoe
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 3:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
My real question is if I have lectin food intolerance issues, why aren't I feeling sick like my daughter and most of the other O's on this forum?  I don't feel sick from any foods - although cooked onions can bother me and too much garlic can bother me.  That is it.

I don't get achy joints or stomach issues or brain fog, etc.

If you eat these items without difficulty, it just means that your body is processing the foods better than others OR your symptoms are not registering as pain, but the BP or CRP? level you speak of or other internal issues that aren't indicated without a test...  More the silent "killer" type symptoms.

My WW didn't have pain either, but had hormonal issues, etc. that were harder to detect.  It is all about individuality.


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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 4:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

If you eat these items without difficulty, it just means that your body is processing the foods better than others OR your symptoms are not registering as pain, but the BP or CRP? level you speak of or other internal issues that aren't indicated without a test...  More the silent "killer" type symptoms.

My WW didn't have pain either, but had hormonal issues, etc. that were harder to detect.  It is all about individuality.


But my cholesterol and CRP went up on the diet, not down.  My blood pressure was high before and during the diet.  The only thing that seems to control my BP is exercise.

I was very strict on the diet for at least 14 months.


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Christopher
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 4:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I spent a good chunk of money on a blood test for food intolerance and it was garbage,specifically said I could eat things(non reactive)that I know for a fact make me ill,like cows milk for example.

And to answer you question gluten gives me instant indigestion,milk and yogurt cause mucous and gas.
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ABJoe
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
But my cholesterol and CRP went up on the diet, not down.  My blood pressure was high before and during the diet.  The only thing that seems to control my BP is exercise.

I was very strict on the diet for at least 14 months.

I have been on the diet for 6+ years and some of my symptoms are worse due to the specific healing that is taking place...  I am fortunate that I can see and feel the healing, so I know what is going on...  I don't have to take it on faith that this is helping...

I also know that in order for the body to remove waste deposits, it has to "unpack" the deposit (inflammation) and bring it into the bloodstream (higher toxin level) then filter it out (possible liver or kidney stress) and eliminate it (without re-absorption)...  If you took the test in the middle of this process, it is quite possible that the higher readings were due to the healing, rather than some failing of the diet.


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gardengirl
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 4:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sorry about that - I wouldn't put full trust in the food sensitivity test. It is a very confusing process finding out what foods do work and do not work for me. At the same time parmesan cheese is a diamond food for me and it gives me inflammation. I have a lot of gut healing to take care of. I actually get less symptoms with wheat short term but if I stay on it long term it all comes out. I just don't trust wheat (personally).
In short, if you want to challenge foods, keep a food diary and just pay close attention to your body.
I just had blood work done and my results were great. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out next year as I plan on staying gluten, dairy, corn, soy and nightshade free. And exercise is doing wonders for me too!
Again, sorry my post was confusing but so is my journey. I use the BTD/SWAMI as a stepping stone. It's not definite for me but I am pretty unhappy with dishing out 100s of $$$ for a food sensitivity test and it not helping me out much. The test was vague at pointing out a food pattern of carbs being no and protein yes. It definitely did not pinpoint specific foods for me because my experience it is not exact. I hope this clears it up.
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gardengirl
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Or maybe I regret the company I went with for the test?? It was newer to the process but my ND talked me out of ALCAT to go with a cheaper company. See - still confused.
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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

I have been on the diet for 6+ years and some of my symptoms are worse due to the specific healing that is taking place...  I am fortunate that I can see and feel the healing, so I know what is going on...  I don't have to take it on faith that this is helping...

I also know that in order for the body to remove waste deposits, it has to "unpack" the deposit (inflammation) and bring it into the bloodstream (higher toxin level) then filter it out (possible liver or kidney stress) and eliminate it (without re-absorption)...  If you took the test in the middle of this process, it is quite possible that the higher readings were due to the healing, rather than some failing of the diet.



Here's the interesting thing, though.  I am super toxic in mercury and lead.  Both Dr. Nash and Dr. Partovi (Dr. D's new associate) told me they had never seen anyone with such high lead and mercury.  The doctor who is doing my chelation therapy said exactly the same thing.  However, what he also said is that I am extremely healthy with a very strong constitution, otherwise I would really be sick due to the lead and mercury toxicity.  The BP is probably because of SNP's - which I have - that control BP and possibly the metals toxicity.

Given the fact that I am so toxic in lead and mercury, wouldn't my food intolerance/lectin intolerance issues be more noticeable?  Aside from the BP, my health is good.  I do have some hormonal issues but I am in peri-menopause.  My chelation doc also said that mercury toxicity can negatively impact hormones.

I guess what I am trying to say here is what the doctor who did the food intolerance testing said - Food issues are not my issues - I have other issues like heavy metals toxicity and BP and hormones.  I compare myself to the other O's on this forum and my daughter, and I just do not have the same issues.  I guess I am thinking that even O's can be quite different from one another.  I seem to be the exception rather than the rule.


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Patty H
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Quoted from gardengirl
Or maybe I regret the company I went with for the test?? It was newer to the process but my ND talked me out of ALCAT to go with a cheaper company. See - still confused.


gardengirl, do certain foods make you feel sick or achy or tired or moody?


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gardengirl
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I sent you a PM because it was a long response. Since I am not savvy with programs, hope you get it.
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ABJoe
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Quoted from Patty H
I guess I am thinking that even O's can be quite different from one another.  I seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

We are all individuals, or exceptions, in our own right...  There are things in each of our backgrounds, etc. that make each of us have slightly different needs / responses.  There are generalizations, but there are also individual needs.  It depends on what is more important in our specific systems.


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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from gardengirl
I sent you a PM because it was a long response. Since I am not savvy with programs, hope you get it.


I just sent you a reply  


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Patty H
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 7:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ABJoe

We are all individuals, or exceptions, in our own right...  There are things in each of our backgrounds, etc. that make each of us have slightly different needs / responses.  There are generalizations, but there are also individual needs.  It depends on what is more important in our specific systems.


This makes a lot of sense!  One of the things that two different natural health care practitioners have said to me is that being on such a strict diet can cause stress in and of itself.  If you are always worried about food and every morsel that goes into your mouth, it can cause adrenal overload just as any other stressful situation.

I am eating from a place of balance now and that feels so much better to me.  I can totally understand why people would need to avoid certain foods if they made them sick in any way.  That is common sense, but that just does not seem to be my issue.

I wonder how my food tolerance will be once all of the heavy metals are gone from my system?  I do wonder if that will have an overall impact and if so, in what direction?


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ABJoe
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Quoted from Patty H
I wonder how my food tolerance will be once all of the heavy metals are gone from my system?  I do wonder if that will have an overall impact and if so, in what direction?

I understand the desire behind your musing...  If any of us could predict what direction our bodies were going to take us, we would lose all of the "enjoyment" of riding along.


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ABJoe
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 9:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
One of the things that two different natural health care practitioners have said to me is that being on such a strict diet can cause stress in and of itself.  If you are always worried about food and every morsel that goes into your mouth, it can cause adrenal overload just as any other stressful situation.

This is directly proportional to the attitude you approach this diet with.  If you see it as stressful and that you are "worrying" about your every bite of food that you could have had but aren't eating, then yes, the stress probably will be do as much damage as the lectins, etc...  
Whereas, if you look at it as avoiding the food poisons just like you would rat poison or anything else detrimental to life - ie, those items are just not part of the food supply, then it is a double relief to leave them in the store and not have to deal with them in the body.


RH-, ISTJ
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Sahara
Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My reaction to wheat is an increased heart beat, constipation, mood swings and fat gain.  Dairy if eaten regularly makes me tired and causes weight gain, though on occasion I can digest it.  I'm a firm believer that grains and dairy cause weight gain in Os, based on my 25 years of personal observations, so for me there's no going back, pretty much ever.  The years I was stricter about the avoids were better body fat wise and emotionally.

Also worth noting is the wheat/leptin resistance connection- this at least one of the reasons wheat causes weight gain:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/category/leptin-resistance/

Milk is damaging to Os due to being chock full of hormones, growth factors and lectins etc.  Loren Cordain points out that milk is *filtered cow's blood*:
http://thepaleodiet.com/archives/3816

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Patty H
Friday, April 13, 2012, 1:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster
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Quoted from 14442
My reaction to wheat is an increased heart beat, constipation, mood swings and fat gain.  Dairy if eaten regularly makes me tired and causes weight gain, though on occasion I can digest it.  I'm a firm believer that grains and dairy cause weight gain in Os, based on my 25 years of personal observations, so for me there's no going back, pretty much ever.  The years I was stricter about the avoids were better body fat wise and emotionally.

Also worth noting is the wheat/leptin resistance connection- this at least one of the reasons wheat causes weight gain:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/category/leptin-resistance/

Milk is damaging to Os due to being chock full of hormones, growth factors and lectins etc.  Loren Cordain points out that milk is *filtered cow's blood*:
http://thepaleodiet.com/archives/3816


Hi Sahara - the Wheat Belly book sound really interesting, so I purchased a copy on Amazon.com.  Thanks for sharing that.  

Does the pale diet say anything about raw milk products?  A very good friend of mine who is an O has read all the high protein/low carb diet books and in one of the books he loves, the author promotes consuming raw dairy.  He swears by it!  I'll ask him which diet he is referring to and post it here.

Since our daughter is now identified as gluten intolerant, we have a lot less wheat/grain products in the house.  I do find that eating grains is less satisfying - I am hungrier quicker - but I am still not eating them often.  Old habits die hard!


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