I drank some milk this morning at breakfast and out of the blue, about 30-40 minutes later I got a headache and started feeling very thirsty at the same time.

I doubt it's the whey proteins, because I've been taking whey protein concentrate after working out.  I doubt it's casein, because I've been eating cheese without any problems.  I believe that only leaves water and lactose?  I think it's safe to rule out water as the culprit, so I suspect the lactose.

What I want to know is, can lactose pass undigested into the blood stream with gut damage?  If so, what might happen if there was free lactose in the blood stream?

FYI, lactose is a disaccharide composed of one glucose and one galactose.

what did you have before, during and after the milk.

P/C your questions are so 'on' target... love it!!

TJ   NO food does not pass undigested into the blood stream but food might require all sorts of chemical juggling that milk could throw you off as can sugar in the milk or some K factor as can other stuff.. or combos..

as can a girlfriend..

It takes the body only minutes to respond to food in the upper stomach.. then the gallbladder, liver and kidneys and who knows what else goes in over-drive and creates the environment needed to assist or be made ready for when the food goes lower .. for some food that is hours for some only minutes..

TJ I am not of your blood type, and I have asked you before.. why eat the extra whey protein.. I know about building muscles.. but why add to you're foods that in my book are marked as 'messed' with.. (prot powder)

send a pic to see how much better you will look with bulk?? I like Long Lean muscles and strength .. unless you do it for making money or trophies??? my body is my temple..

but I do succumb.. so no preaching from me.. just wondering???  

pc, I had beef w/ Swiss cheese, salt, and ground cayenne pepper, and turnip greens with butter and salt.  Nothing but water after that between eating and reacting.

Quoted from Goldie

why eat the extra whey protein.. I know about building muscles.. but why add to you're foods that in my book are marked as 'messed' with.. (prot powder)

SWAMI indicates that whey protein as neutral for me, and I don't find myself reacting adversely to it.  Whey protein concentrate is only dehydrated whey, not much messing done to it.

Quoted from TJ

can lactose pass undigested into the blood stream with gut damage?  If so, what might happen if there was free lactose in the blood stream?

Anyone else?

Quoted from Goldie

food does not pass undigested into the blood stream

I've read a lot that says otherwise.

Quoted from TJ

pc, I had beef w/ Swiss cheese, salt, and ground cayenne pepper, and turnip greens with butter and salt.  Nothing but water after that between eating and reacting.
SWAMI indicates that whey protein as neutral for me, and I don't find myself reacting adversely to it. Whey protein concentrate is only dehydrated whey, not much messing done to it.
Anyone else?

A neutral...a food...diamonds and superfoods used as medicine...maybe this was some whey of your body trying to tell you something.  

Debra

undigested .... No.. digested or partial digested.. unlikely,  but entering the body fluid system possible.. affecting the immune reactions yes..

messed with .. anything 'processed'-is messed with.. in my book

BUT MOST important drinking liquid 10 min BEFORE  eating..

and room temp drinks at least or warmer drink after food.. might be better then during eating..

So let me just put this another way.  Suppose I got an intravenous injection of a lactose of solution.  What would happen?

I Think your body would have a hard time rearranging the chemistry that keeps your bady in balance.. you would fell sick..  

TJ,

Dr. D'Adamo took time during the conferences to explain that leaky gut isn't a hole in the digestive tract.  

Will do my best to explain as true to Dr. D as possible - please forgive any misrepresentations on my part.

The digestive system surface is like a very high quality terry cloth towel.  This allows for a very large surface area to be in a relatively small area.  

Each loop of the terry cloth is like a finger in the digestive tract. Below this rich terry cloth like surface is the circulatory system

Each finger in the digestive tract, is then again covered with a second rich layer of fingers like terry cloth loops.

The surface area of the human digestive tract provides approximately the same area as three football fields when flattened out.  

Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain.

Quoted Text

an intravenous injection of a lactose of solution.

that isn t going through your digestive tract

quote - Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain. - end quote

leaky gut is like a bomb has gone off in that area? or is that other sort of gut damage? (sorry, bit confused)
because the little fingers are damanged does that mean that all the toxic damage just runs around in your blood and makes you feel horrid?

then does this cause headaches etc because of the toxis load travelling in the blood stream?

sorry for all the questions, your description is enthralling   - I have leaky gut

Lactose is similar to the B blood sugar type.
Your body, (unless something is amok) would see it a "like" -- lucky "B"!
I am wondering if the milk was organic, grass-fed whole and raw?
There are a lot of hormones and other junk that can show up in milk.

Vicki has some good info. I was at that lecture as well. Leaky gut is not a big hole. However, celiac/leaky gut does let unwanted substances through as the villi have lost capacity to close (to varying degrees) and let stuff through and/or villi are destroyed. (Like gluten that is undigestible and can end up in other areas of the body, such as the brain.)

I wouldn't surmise that lactose would be problematic for a B, which is why I asked about the qualities of the milk. I don't think these two issues would be related.

Something to consider, if you have been rebuilding your gut for awhile, though, and following this diet, getting probiotics, avoiding lectins, etc.-- you may not even have "leaky" gut anymore as the inner lining of small intestines replace the cells about every week. Probably takes awhile when you have bad damage, but the design of the body never ceases to amaze me.  

You might want to check out Fast Facts: Celiac Disease by Alessio Fasano. Dr. Fassano is the researcher who brought celiac diagnosis and research to America. I had opportunity to attend his lecture as well several months ago and do a short interview as I am working on a documentary to help people with celiac/gluten sensitivity.

I don't think Vicki meant pieces of intestine went elsewhere, but food substances that normally don't get through when all systems are 100%. A bomb going off refers to areas that normally appear smooth have big chucks missing. Think craters on the moon surface.

All of the above being said, celiacs often have issues with dairy. I don't know if that includes "B" celiacs. I would think that would be the other blood types that can't deal with it normally anyway and then blew their guts with accumulated damage.

Ok, I may have not been clear and left something out. If you have true celiac, there may be an issue with a chemical signal that regulates the permeability of the intestine as well as gut damage. Leaky gut often accompanies celiac, but is not limited to celiac.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, AKArtLover!

Quoted from Vicki

TJ, Dr. D'Adamo took time during the conferences to explain that leaky gut isn't a hole in the digestive tract.  

Will do my best to explain as true to Dr. D as possible - please forgive any misrepresentations on my part.

The digestive system surface is like a very high quality terry cloth towel.  This allows for a very large surface area to be in a relatively small area.  

Each loop of the terry cloth is like a finger in the digestive tract. Below this rich terry cloth like surface is the circulatory system

Each finger in the digestive tract, is then again covered with a second rich layer of fingers like terry cloth loops.

The surface area of the human digestive tract provides approximately the same area as three football fields when flattened out.  

Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain.

Brilliant summary I assume "little fingers" are describing the villi?

Hi Niagreen - if you press "Quote" above the passage you are commenting on, it will automatically put that neatly in a box ready for you to comment under (or above etc) makes it easier to see what is your post, & what is the quote...

Yes, the villi are what Vicki means. I was fascinated when Dr. D pointed out that the villi fingers Vicki is referring to are covered with their own tiny (microscopic?) "fingers." Incredibly efficient way to increase the surface area absorbtion dramatically. We are designed so elegantly!

Quoted from AKArtlover

Yes, the villi are what Vicki means. I was fascinated when Dr. D pointed out that the villi fingers Vicki is referring to are covered with their own tiny (microscopic?) "fingers." Incredibly efficient way to increase the surface area absorbtion dramatically. We are designed so elegantly!

Thanks Artlover Hmmm we are indeed Pity that elegance doesn't always translate to the skeletol frame... I do have moments of...but I cannot imagine anyone describing me as "elegant" I am the sort of person who would trip over my own wedding dress... Except somehow thankfully I didn't

IF the food were to enter your belli cavities you would more than likely be in a hospital with temp and mayor infection..

Milk sugars as confusing as it may seem.. will never enter your Blood stream.. but the effects from it can stimulate your whole body and brain system to react.. to hundreds of signals.. ****

LIKE alcohol for instance triggers a response to starve the brain of fluids.. (maybe needed to counteract/facilitate the sager/alcohol digestion...

What all foods will do is trigger all sort of body responses that will make you feel as if you needed to sleep.. give it back or whatever..

But any sugar would do that as well.. if you are sensitive to it..

now if you are asking can milk possibly hurt you.. I think depending on B type yes.. or not

but can milk be affecting people that should not have it.. then yes indeed it is not a good thing to test with.. Like TJ =B nonnie  ... for non's its a neutral, and I see that as filler food and not health giving per se... even though neutrals may sustain you for a long time.. but will not make you healthy..

**** as for the connection to the brain.. the brain or around the brain??

there is a 'growth' system (I believe I read a long time ago) that the early development of a developing embryo is like the skin over a worm and from that skin grow all parts of the body.. and that 'skin' stays in contact with the original worm like being which it selves becomes the intestines,... therefore can the intestines when they are damaged ON THE INSIDE.. can they affect other parts of the body... I would say YES.,. but only insofar as messages are going to and fro.. NOT food particles..  food gets mashed/broken down in the upper stomach and is all broken down by the time it enters the lower small intestines.. so, no cross over.. the only time it might breach the intestinal lining is during a mayor insult/accident..life threatening.. (my opinion only = 2 cents)

but lets say I eat sugar.. (diabetic O) then hundreds of actions will develop and transmit signals to produce whatever the body PARTS need to deal with the effects on each part of the body including the brain.. becoming agitated or lethargic.. and can the brain be affected by what we eat YES .. every day.. as seen in many brain scans .. the brain also can be repaired by foods..

if this is all besides the point then just ignore it..  

Goldie - I don't think anyone is talking about "actual food" - more the nutrients (or toxins) or whatever allergens our bodies react to...

Quoted from Possum

  Pity that elegance doesn't always translate to the skeletol frame... I

My chiro says the skeletal system is engineered to last 120 years before any signs of degeneration or deterioration... we know everything in life does not go perfectly though.  
If we are blessed with children, I am so glad they will get the benefit of healing properly and getting back in alignment after the bumps and oopsies of life as he is a specialist in pediatric chiropractic.
Risking hijacking the thread here, so I'll get off the chiro soapbox...

Vicki, thank you for the synopsis from Dr. D's lecture.

That is correct, the intestinal lining is coated with villi, and the villi are coated with microvilli.  I understand that it isn't a hole per se, but in Celiac disease, some things can still get through between the endothelial cells that shouldn't.  "Our results show that celiac disease patient autoantibodies increase endothelial permeability for macromolecules...."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19680746

AK, that's very close!  The B sugar is galactose.  Lactose is made of one galactose and one glucose (monosaccharides).  It has to be broken to be usable.  I suspect that free lactose would be recognized as "not self" and would burden the kidneys.  But why the headaches...hmm.

I'm pretty sure that what I have is not just "gluten sensitivity" but genuine Celiac disease.  I get an unpleasant reaction to traces of gluten (i.e. unlisted gluten in a psyllium fiber supplement causing a reaction from taking only 1 teaspoon of fiber).  It's such a grinding, fatiguing, whole-body reaction that autoimmunity seems to be the best explanation.  It also explains the egg sensitivity (not allergy), which is a food that should be beneficial to me.  I suspect I get egg proteins into my blood which are also recognized as "not self"!

As per your link TJ, this seems to say it all...

"Since the small bowel mucosal endothelium serves as a "gatekeeper" in inflammatory processes, the disease-specific autoantibodies targeted against TG2 could thus contribute to the pathogenic cascade of celiac disease by increasing blood vessel permeability."

pubmed/19680746

Lol, sometimes I wonder if they're speaking the same language as me.  "Well, it sort of LOOKS like English...."

Sooo, isn't it funny the things you think of AFTER you post?  For one thing, lactose is definitely NOT what I'd call a "macromolecule".  So that article probably doesn't even apply in this case...

...Unless Goldie is right about the whey proteins.  They ARE macromolecules.  I am 100% settled that casein/cheese is not a problem for me, but I'm still not quite sure about whey, even though I've been using it.  I don't think it would hurt to set it aside again and see what happens, so that's what I'll do for now.

Dr D

Quoted Text

'Liver work' will also help. Personally, I think non-secretors have problems controlling lipid peroxidation in their bile ducts. This may be because of some alteration to their 'reticuloendothelial' system (the white blood cells in the liver) to compensate for their lack of adequate Secretory IgA, a phenomenon producing what is often simplistically referred to as 'leaky gut syndrome.'

Maybe you should do a castor oil pack every now and then. Wear a yellow T-shirt.

Thank you, Lola.  You just put a tiny piece of my own puzzle together too.  It seems to all come back to this crazy nonnie-hood some of us live in.

Dr. D: Celiac Disease (Sprue), ABO and Secretor Blood Types

Quoted from http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/.....Secretor_Blood_Types

In contrast with having too much of that antibody, it is ten times more common in celiac patients to have a lack of IgA  (the protective antibody in mucus) than in the general population. There is a strong association between being a non-secretor  and having overt celiac disease, non secretors being about 200% more likely to have celiac than secretors  (1). This would make sense, since it has been noted for over 20 years that Non-secretors had lower levels of IgA than secretors.

Add this to what Lola just quoted, and to the understanding that the blood carrying nutrients away from the digestive tract goes through the liver before going anywhere else, and that does tie things together.

I.e. having "leaky gut"/celiac isn't a good thing, but it's even worse if you're a nonnie because the liver isn't as adept at mitigating the damage.  Is that correct?

I bet this attributes to the hyper-sensitivity we non-secretors appear to have.

I'm hoping Dr. D will make a surprise appearance here. I'm curious...

Maybe he already has...incognito!

I think you may all apreciate the following slide you may get bored mid wat through but persever and then the end bit will make sence. i have virus checker this but feel frree to double check.

http://www.acponline.org/about_acp/chapters/central/celiac.ppt

On another note, I reran my SWAMI yesterday, unchecking digestive problems, and checking allergy/autoimmune (since that's what celiac is), fatigue, joint problems, and environmental sensitivity.  They are all tied together, so I figured that they wouldn't cancel each other out much.  I got fewer dairy products and vegetable proteins this way.

Note: I renamed the thread in reflection of the true nature of the discussion here!

I recently came across the term bioavailability in reference to proteins.  High bioavailability means the food is absorbed through the intestine into the blood stream quickly.  It's interesting that eggs and whey are the highest bioavailable sources of protein.  It now makes sense to me why they would be so much trouble: they don't stay in my gut long enough to be digested.

High bioavailability is a plus for supplying your body with protein after a workout, but only if your gut is intact.

There are 150 unique mechanisms by which something can be endocytosed (gobbles) up by the cells of the intestines.

Quoted from TJ

I've read a lot that says otherwise.

This person agrees with Goldie

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/dig12.php

TJ, can you find us another point of view to read?

And this refers to undigested nutrients but does not mention undigested foods.
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec09/ch125/ch125a.html

Quoted from TJ

[i]I recently came across the term bioavailability in reference to proteins.  High bioavailability means the food is absorbed through the intestine into the blood stream quickly.  It's interesting that eggs and whey are the highest bioavailable sources of protein.  It now makes sense to me why they would be so much trouble: they don't stay in my gut long enough to be digested.

My opinion of high bioavailability is that they don't need as much processing in the gut to be in a usable condition.  Therefore, the shorter time in the digestive tract.  It also means that there will be a higher concentration in the bloodstream due to the quicker digestion pattern...

It may be that they cause problems for you because for some reason you are not able to handle a large influx of protein at one time.  Maybe for you it needs to be spread out over a longer time frame - which happens when other proteins remain in the gut longer - they will break down at different rates, so will be "metered" into the bloodstream.  Do you think this may have any merit?

I think Lola's quote about doing "liver work" is really getting to the point now.

Quoted from Dr. D

There are 150 unique mechanisms by which something can be endocytosed (gobbles) up by the cells of the intestines.

Just when I thought I knew something....   I doubt I have the background needed to understand such detailed biochemistry!

In layman's terms, is it correct that in a "leaky gut", food material is absorbed prematurely (before digestion is complete)?  And that it's a bigger problem for non-secretors because the white blood cells in the liver aren't as effective at catching and removing that material from the blood before is goes on to the rest of the body?

----------

Quoted from ABJoe

It may be that they cause problems for you because for some reason you are not able to handle a large influx of protein at one time.  Maybe for you it needs to be spread out over a longer time frame - which happens when other proteins remain in the gut longer - they will break down at different rates, so will be "metered" into the bloodstream.  Do you think this may have any merit?

Spot on!

There's always a danger of not even knowing what questions you should ask when you talk to an expert!  But in the event that Dr. D doesn't disagree with my theory about leaky gut, I'll put this out there.

Quoted from Chloe

This person agrees with Goldie

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/dig12.php

Let me respond thus:

Quoted from Possum

Goldie - I don't think anyone is talking about "actual food" - more the nutrients (or toxins) or whatever allergens our bodies react to...

I'm not suggesting that you're going to find heavily buttered and salted popcorn pumping through your hepatic vein an hour into the movie.

If I'm wrong, that's just more reason to avoid popcorn.

Quoted from TJ

There's always a danger of not even knowing what questions you should ask when you talk to an expert!  

I am most often simply dumbfounded when reading threads like this.

This laywoman understands that proteins not cut down to the essential aminoacids are allergizing, damages the gut mucosa and creates every sort of problems starting form a leaky gut, the example is celiac disease, all the side damages and the gut villi flattening , malabsorbtion and allergies. Lectins and gluten ffrom milk and wheat  created my sinusitis colds, otitis and terrible eye allergy. BTD and GTD solved 99 % of these problems for me.

Quoted from TJ

There's always a danger of not even knowing what questions you should ask when you talk to an expert!  But in the event that Dr. D doesn't disagree with my theory about leaky gut, I'll put this out there.
Let me respond thus:I'm not suggesting that you're going to find heavily buttered and salted popcorn pumping through your hepatic vein an hour into the movie.

If I'm wrong, that's just more reason to avoid popcorn.

oh you crack me up TJ!!!!
I'll have to "digest" all this info before I comment further... which incidentally wasn't quite the intentional pun it appears...

Nice little book...
http://www.amazon.com/Leaky-Gu.....331649499&sr=8-2

Starting to put the big picture of my past together...
and understanding how my body works...
Clear vision of what I want in my future is making these choices easier as is my body taking a minute to scream "What a sec, I need more help!"
Reprioritizing. Look out yeasties and nasties, I'm coming for you!

Almost two years, TJ! I'm so happy you are getting it sorted (as am I).

I get sinus headaches, drippy nose, upset stomach, and elevated pulse almost immediately after eating/drinking anything dairy. I am also allergic to gluten, even in the smallest amounts. I spent 30 minutes this morning at the grocery store, trying to choose a high cacoa content bar as a test because chocolate is supposed to be good for you in small amounts (plus I LOVE(ed)chocolate). Well, I failed the test. Even one square gave me a headache and runny nose, flem in throat, coughing, and my stomach hurts, though it doesn't sound like Niagara Falls ...yet. So that was a learning experience. Still trying to learn about leaky gut, so your info was helpful, but I'm still a little confused.  

Nice little book that summarizes things.

Food allergies can make the gut leaky. Yeasties can make the gut leaky. You can get into a vicious circle with it. We often crave things we are allergic to. Not all allergies are apparent right after eating. Sensitivities could be thought of as allergies that could go away in time (often do on BTD)-- but you do need to avoid those things for a time. Heal the gut.

http://www.thecandidadiet.com/candidasymptoms.htm

Search "leaky gut" on Amazon and you will find several books.

Breaking a fast with reintroduction of foods can tell you some lower grade irritants-- often masked because the body is working on other stuff. I think I am reacting to egg whites. I had an aversion to them lately (gallbladder issue though, too) but when I reintroduced a multi-ingredient item-- immediate rash. Think I narrowed it down to that in the item.

I think I'm going to get the full blown IgG ELISA testing. I'm going to see if I can get a doctor to order it even if insurance doesn't cover it. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Here is a nice little PDF from Steve Nenniger's website...
http://www.stevenenninger.com/SteveNenninger/Order_Test_files/Allergens%202%206%202012.pdf

This company http://www.immunolabs.comclaims 95% reproducibility on their results (which I guess can be an issue.)  Jeffery Bland has some kind of quote on the man that runs it and I like him, so I will see if I can go through them-- 154 foods tested.

Don't mean to overwhelm, just leaving a trail.

I don't remember my stomach and intestines not hurting throughout my entire life until I found the BTD. It was an amazing experience!! A fifty-seven year stomachache is a LONG time!!

Quoted from Spring

I don't remember my stomach and intestines not hurting throughout my entire life until I found the BTD. It was an amazing experience!! A fifty-seven year stomachache is a LONG time!!

Hmmmm . . I had one of those too!  I never could understand why everyone else seemed to enjoy socializing so much after meals, when I would be suffering.

And maybe galactose allows B's to be more in harmony with milk, but I would still be in pain if I drank a glass of milk.