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What can a leaky gut let through?  This thread currently has 2,718 views. Print Print Thread
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TJ
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I drank some milk this morning at breakfast and out of the blue, about 30-40 minutes later I got a headache and started feeling very thirsty at the same time.

I doubt it's the whey proteins, because I've been taking whey protein concentrate after working out.  I doubt it's casein, because I've been eating cheese without any problems.  I believe that only leaves water and lactose?  I think it's safe to rule out water as the culprit, so I suspect the lactose.

What I want to know is, can lactose pass undigested into the blood stream with gut damage?  If so, what might happen if there was free lactose in the blood stream?

FYI, lactose is a disaccharide composed of one glucose and one galactose.

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TJ  -  Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 3:24pm
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PCUK-Positive
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 6:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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what did you have before, during and after the milk.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

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DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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Goldie
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 6:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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P/C your questions are so 'on' target... love it!!

TJ   NO food does not pass undigested into the blood stream but food might require all sorts of chemical juggling that milk could throw you off as can sugar in the milk or some K factor as can other stuff.. or combos..

as can a girlfriend..

It takes the body only minutes to respond to food in the upper stomach.. then the gallbladder, liver and kidneys and who knows what else goes in over-drive and creates the environment needed to assist or be made ready for when the food goes lower .. for some food that is hours for some only minutes..

TJ I am not of your blood type, and I have asked you before.. why eat the extra whey protein.. I know about building muscles.. but why add to you're foods that in my book are marked as 'messed' with.. (prot powder)

send a pic to see how much better you will look with bulk?? I like Long Lean muscles and strength .. unless you do it for making money or trophies??? my body is my temple..

but I do succumb.. so no preaching from me.. just wondering???  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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TJ
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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pc, I had beef w/ Swiss cheese, salt, and ground cayenne pepper, and turnip greens with butter and salt.  Nothing but water after that between eating and reacting.
Quoted from Goldie
why eat the extra whey protein.. I know about building muscles.. but why add to you're foods that in my book are marked as 'messed' with.. (prot powder)
SWAMI indicates that whey protein as neutral for me, and I don't find myself reacting adversely to it.  Whey protein concentrate is only dehydrated whey, not much messing done to it.
Quoted from TJ
can lactose pass undigested into the blood stream with gut damage?  If so, what might happen if there was free lactose in the blood stream?
Anyone else?
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TJ
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Goldie
food does not pass undigested into the blood stream
I've read a lot that says otherwise.
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Debra+
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TJ
pc, I had beef w/ Swiss cheese, salt, and ground cayenne pepper, and turnip greens with butter and salt.  Nothing but water after that between eating and reacting.
SWAMI indicates that whey protein as neutral for me, and I don't find myself reacting adversely to it. Whey protein concentrate is only dehydrated whey, not much messing done to it.
Anyone else?


A neutral...a food...diamonds and superfoods used as medicine...maybe this was some whey of your body trying to tell you something.  

Debra



"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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Debra+  -  Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:39pm
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Goldie
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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undigested .... No.. digested or partial digested.. unlikely,  but entering the body fluid system possible.. affecting the immune reactions yes..

messed with .. anything 'processed'-is messed with.. in my book

BUT MOST important drinking liquid 10 min BEFORE  eating..

and room temp drinks at least or warmer drink after food.. might be better then during eating..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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TJ
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 8:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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So let me just put this another way.  Suppose I got an intravenous injection of a lactose of solution.  What would happen?
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Goldie
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 9:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I Think your body would have a hard time rearranging the chemistry that keeps your bady in balance.. you would fell sick..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Vicki
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 9:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TJ,

Dr. D'Adamo took time during the conferences to explain that leaky gut isn't a hole in the digestive tract.  

Will do my best to explain as true to Dr. D as possible - please forgive any misrepresentations on my part.

The digestive system surface is like a very high quality terry cloth towel.  This allows for a very large surface area to be in a relatively small area.  

Each loop of the terry cloth is like a finger in the digestive tract. Below this rich terry cloth like surface is the circulatory system

Each finger in the digestive tract, is then again covered with a second rich layer of fingers like terry cloth loops.

The surface area of the human digestive tract provides approximately the same area as three football fields when flattened out.  

Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain.

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Lola
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 9:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
an intravenous injection of a lactose of solution.


that isn t going through your digestive tract


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Niagreen
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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quote - Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain. - end quote

leaky gut is like a bomb has gone off in that area? or is that other sort of gut damage? (sorry, bit confused)
because the little fingers are damanged does that mean that all the toxic damage just runs around in your blood and makes you feel horrid?

then does this cause headaches etc because of the toxis load travelling in the blood stream?

sorry for all the questions, your description is enthralling   - I have leaky gut
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AKArtlover
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 10:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Lactose is similar to the B blood sugar type.
Your body, (unless something is amok) would see it a "like" -- lucky "B"!
I am wondering if the milk was organic, grass-fed whole and raw?
There are a lot of hormones and other junk that can show up in milk.

Vicki has some good info. I was at that lecture as well. Leaky gut is not a big hole. However, celiac/leaky gut does let unwanted substances through as the villi have lost capacity to close (to varying degrees) and let stuff through and/or villi are destroyed. (Like gluten that is undigestible and can end up in other areas of the body, such as the brain.)

I wouldn't surmise that lactose would be problematic for a B, which is why I asked about the qualities of the milk. I don't think these two issues would be related.

Something to consider, if you have been rebuilding your gut for awhile, though, and following this diet, getting probiotics, avoiding lectins, etc.-- you may not even have "leaky" gut anymore as the inner lining of small intestines replace the cells about every week. Probably takes awhile when you have bad damage, but the design of the body never ceases to amaze me.  

You might want to check out Fast Facts: Celiac Disease by Alessio Fasano. Dr. Fassano is the researcher who brought celiac diagnosis and research to America. I had opportunity to attend his lecture as well several months ago and do a short interview as I am working on a documentary to help people with celiac/gluten sensitivity.

I don't think Vicki meant pieces of intestine went elsewhere, but food substances that normally don't get through when all systems are 100%. A bomb going off refers to areas that normally appear smooth have big chucks missing. Think craters on the moon surface.

All of the above being said, celiacs often have issues with dairy. I don't know if that includes "B" celiacs. I would think that would be the other blood types that can't deal with it normally anyway and then blew their guts with accumulated damage.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14

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AKArtlover  -  Sunday, July 11, 2010, 11:00pm
AKArtlover  -  Sunday, July 11, 2010, 10:57pm
AKArtlover  -  Sunday, July 11, 2010, 10:55pm
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AKArtlover
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 11:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok, I may have not been clear and left something out. If you have true celiac, there may be an issue with a chemical signal that regulates the permeability of the intestine as well as gut damage. Leaky gut often accompanies celiac, but is not limited to celiac.

Hope this helps!


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Vicki
Sunday, July 11, 2010, 11:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks, AKArtLover!
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Possum
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Quoted from Vicki
TJ, Dr. D'Adamo took time during the conferences to explain that leaky gut isn't a hole in the digestive tract.  

Will do my best to explain as true to Dr. D as possible - please forgive any misrepresentations on my part.

The digestive system surface is like a very high quality terry cloth towel.  This allows for a very large surface area to be in a relatively small area.  

Each loop of the terry cloth is like a finger in the digestive tract. Below this rich terry cloth like surface is the circulatory system

Each finger in the digestive tract, is then again covered with a second rich layer of fingers like terry cloth loops.

The surface area of the human digestive tract provides approximately the same area as three football fields when flattened out.  

Leaky gut really isn't a hole in the digestive system.  When you look at someone with gut damage microscopically, it looks as if a bomb has gone off in that area.  The little fingers are gone.

He did mention that some issues involving the brain can be treated by healing the gut because the bits of the explosion can go to the brain.
Brilliant summary I assume "little fingers" are describing the villi?

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Possum
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Ee Dan
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Hi Niagreen - if you press "Quote" above the passage you are commenting on, it will automatically put that neatly in a box ready for you to comment under (or above etc) makes it easier to see what is your post, & what is the quote...
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AKArtlover
Monday, July 12, 2010, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Yes, the villi are what Vicki means. I was fascinated when Dr. D pointed out that the villi fingers Vicki is referring to are covered with their own tiny (microscopic?) "fingers." Incredibly efficient way to increase the surface area absorbtion dramatically. We are designed so elegantly!


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Possum
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Quoted from AKArtlover
Yes, the villi are what Vicki means. I was fascinated when Dr. D pointed out that the villi fingers Vicki is referring to are covered with their own tiny (microscopic?) "fingers." Incredibly efficient way to increase the surface area absorbtion dramatically. We are designed so elegantly!
Thanks Artlover Hmmm we are indeed Pity that elegance doesn't always translate to the skeletol frame... I do have moments of...but I cannot imagine anyone describing me as "elegant" I am the sort of person who would trip over my own wedding dress... Except somehow thankfully I didn't

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Goldie
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Sam Dan
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IF the food were to enter your belli cavities you would more than likely be in a hospital with temp and mayor infection..

Milk sugars as confusing as it may seem.. will never enter your Blood stream.. but the effects from it can stimulate your whole body and brain system to react.. to hundreds of signals.. ****

LIKE alcohol for instance triggers a response to starve the brain of fluids.. (maybe needed to counteract/facilitate the sager/alcohol digestion...

What all foods will do is trigger all sort of body responses that will make you feel as if you needed to sleep.. give it back or whatever..

But any sugar would do that as well.. if you are sensitive to it..

now if you are asking can milk possibly hurt you.. I think depending on B type yes.. or not

but can milk be affecting people that should not have it.. then yes indeed it is not a good thing to test with.. Like TJ =B nonnie  ... for non's its a neutral, and I see that as filler food and not health giving per se... even though neutrals may sustain you for a long time.. but will not make you healthy..

**** as for the connection to the brain.. the brain or around the brain??

there is a 'growth' system (I believe I read a long time ago) that the early development of a developing embryo is like the skin over a worm and from that skin grow all parts of the body.. and that 'skin' stays in contact with the original worm like being which it selves becomes the intestines,... therefore can the intestines when they are damaged ON THE INSIDE.. can they affect other parts of the body... I would say YES.,. but only insofar as messages are going to and fro.. NOT food particles..  food gets mashed/broken down in the upper stomach and is all broken down by the time it enters the lower small intestines.. so, no cross over.. the only time it might breach the intestinal lining is during a mayor insult/accident..life threatening.. (my opinion only = 2 cents)

but lets say I eat sugar.. (diabetic O) then hundreds of actions will develop and transmit signals to produce whatever the body PARTS need to deal with the effects on each part of the body including the brain.. becoming agitated or lethargic.. and can the brain be affected by what we eat YES .. every day.. as seen in many brain scans .. the brain also can be repaired by foods..

if this is all besides the point then just ignore it..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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Possum
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Ee Dan
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Goldie - I don't think anyone is talking about "actual food" - more the nutrients (or toxins) or whatever allergens our bodies react to...
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AKArtlover
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Quoted from Possum
  Pity that elegance doesn't always translate to the skeletol frame... I


My chiro says the skeletal system is engineered to last 120 years before any signs of degeneration or deterioration... we know everything in life does not go perfectly though.  
If we are blessed with children, I am so glad they will get the benefit of healing properly and getting back in alignment after the bumps and oopsies of life as he is a specialist in pediatric chiropractic.
Risking hijacking the thread here, so I'll get off the chiro soapbox...


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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TJ
Monday, July 12, 2010, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Vicki, thank you for the synopsis from Dr. D's lecture.

That is correct, the intestinal lining is coated with villi, and the villi are coated with microvilli.  I understand that it isn't a hole per se, but in Celiac disease, some things can still get through between the endothelial cells that shouldn't.  "Our results show that celiac disease patient autoantibodies increase endothelial permeability for macromolecules...."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19680746

AK, that's very close!  The B sugar is galactose.  Lactose is made of one galactose and one glucose (monosaccharides).  It has to be broken to be usable.  I suspect that free lactose would be recognized as "not self" and would burden the kidneys.  But why the headaches...hmm.

I'm pretty sure that what I have is not just "gluten sensitivity" but genuine Celiac disease.  I get an unpleasant reaction to traces of gluten (i.e. unlisted gluten in a psyllium fiber supplement causing a reaction from taking only 1 teaspoon of fiber).  It's such a grinding, fatiguing, whole-body reaction that autoimmunity seems to be the best explanation.  It also explains the egg sensitivity (not allergy), which is a food that should be beneficial to me.  I suspect I get egg proteins into my blood which are also recognized as "not self"!
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Possum
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Ee Dan
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As per your link TJ, this seems to say it all...

"Since the small bowel mucosal endothelium serves as a "gatekeeper" in inflammatory processes, the disease-specific autoantibodies targeted against TG2 could thus contribute to the pathogenic cascade of celiac disease by increasing blood vessel permeability."

pubmed/19680746
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TJ
Monday, July 12, 2010, 1:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lol, sometimes I wonder if they're speaking the same language as me.  "Well, it sort of LOOKS like English...."

Sooo, isn't it funny the things you think of AFTER you post?  For one thing, lactose is definitely NOT what I'd call a "macromolecule".  So that article probably doesn't even apply in this case...

...Unless Goldie is right about the whey proteins.  They ARE macromolecules.  I am 100% settled that casein/cheese is not a problem for me, but I'm still not quite sure about whey, even though I've been using it.  I don't think it would hurt to set it aside again and see what happens, so that's what I'll do for now.
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