I have just purchased the Zojirushi Home Bakery BreadMachine that makes a 2 pound loaf.
I want to bake White Spelt Bread for the kids and I wondered if anyone has experience in the Rising/Baking Times of Spelt Bread in a Bread Machine? I spoke to the manufacturer and they have no recommended Spelt Flour Recipes! They just gave me their recommendation for programming the machine for "Gluten Free" Bread.  I guess Spelt is somewhere "inbetween" the two because of its low level of  gluten... There is one Spelt Bread Recipe in the database but I want to convert it to a 2 pound loaf (the recipe is for a 1 pound loaf):

Recommended Gluten Free Cycle in BreadMachine (2 pound loaf)
Preheat 15 Min
Knead 25 Min
Skip 1st and 2nd rise; 3rd Rise - 55 Min
Bake: 55 Minutes

The Recipe in the BTD Database for a 1 pound loaf is:
1 cup Warm Apple Juice
1-1/2 tsp honey
1-1/2 tsp lecithin granules
2 Tbls. Grapeseed Oil
3/4 tsp salt
3 cups White Spelt Flour
2 tsp Fleishman's Breadmaker Yeast
Preheat/Wait before knead: 10 Min.(They didn't mention what the knead and rise time is in their machine)
Bake: 27 Min.
I need to adjust the quantities and rising/baking for a 2 pound loaf: Any suggestions?? Should I double the quantity and Bake for 55 Min?
Any experienced Bread Bakers around?!

try out the recipe, by simply doubling it in size......
follow your machine instructions.....voila!

whatever turns out, if right, you ll be the expert bread maker.....if wrong...
you can always make a pudding, with almond milk or whatever....
or croutons, for salad......or even breading for whatever recipe....

happy baking!

I've made the following recipe from the Recipebase here (with a slight adjustment listed) in a breadmaker set on rapid bake cycle (2hrs in total) - not sure what % of time spent on each bit.  It turned out really well (very soft and fluffy).

1/4 cup white grape juice
1/2 cup (+ 3 tablespoons) water
4 teaspoons olive oil
3/4 teaspoons sea salt
2-7/8 cups white spelt flour (can use up to 50% white/wholemeal)
1-3/4 teaspoons active dry yeast

How to make it:
Add ingredients to bread pan in the order recommended for your machine.
Use the cycle for 'Basic yeast bread' or 'Rapid Bake'
Makes a 1-1/2 lb. loaf.

Comments:

My machine is a Hitachi Home Bakery II, and this recipe rises higher than the one in my instruction book using regular bread flour. If your machine makes a smaller loaf, watch out, it will overflow.

Here's the link to the original:

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?138

Let us know how it turns out!

Andy

I bake all my breads using my own sourdough starter and spelt bread.  The machine versions have come out really well!!     I think mine are a two pound loaf, they fill the breadmaker tray to the top!

i have posted photos and step by step process in the fermenting and sprouting thread if you want to have a look ...

Whatever you do, do not give up!! breadmaking is so satisfying and rewarding in more ways than just food ...  

Thank you all so much! I will keep you posted. Cristina, I was looking at your thread yesterday...
As soon as I have worked out the "regular way" I will start with the sour dough starters, my machine has a cycle for the starter as well...

I've used a spelt recipe from recipe central called Spelt Bread (breadmaker) but I rarely follow recipes exactly--for instance in this one I don't use soymilk or butter,and I do use fully 100% wholemeal---so it is hard to give you a proven recipe---but I have found that spelt flour seems to need less liquid than modern flour---so I just reduce the liquids by 100-200 mls. I do find that spelt flour yields a much less commercial style of loaf, dries out quicker, etc, so I use it for toast mostly, and it is excellent for my digestion/elimination.The literature seems to say that spelt is better for us than modern flour, and of course sour dough is better than commercial yeast, so it is well worth plugging on with both these aspects of bread making.

Quoted from charlie2

Hi all.  I only let bread machine do the kneading.  Then stop and put in pan to bake in oven.  I like the crust better this way.  I also keep the loaf frozen and use only 1 or 2 slices since I am a widow now for three years.

This is the method I prefer when I bake for DH.

Changeling

I've tried spelt bread in the bread machine and gave up.  It always collapsed.  Now, that I've done a bit of Google-ing, I thought I'd give this a shot:

http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/very-simple-spelt-bread/Detail.aspx

Several of the reviews are positive saying it's the best ever.  Sounds like a weekend adventure for me.  I'll probably use almond milk and maple syrup instead of milk and molasses.

Quoted from Cristina

i have posted photos and step by step process in the fermenting and sprouting thread if you want to have a look ...

Yes! Look where?  

Here ya go MF  

http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-btdlf1/m-1277859580/s-all/

I can't have spelt so is there a replacement for it? I can have...

  quinoa
  rice bran
  teff
  amaranth
  lentil flour
  sesame flour
  almond flour (if there's such a thing)

will any of the above do as a replacement?

Quoted from tnahowru

I can't have spelt so is there a replacement for it? I can have...

  quinoa
  rice bran
  teff
  amaranth
  lentil flour
  sesame flour
  almond flour (if there's such a thing)

will any of the above do as a replacement?

None of the flours you mentioned will replace spelt cup for cup.  Spelt acts very much like regular flour, although a little more finicky due to the different structure of protein.  Unfortunately, if the flours you noted are your ONLY carbohydrate choices for making bread, you'll have to learn to bake gluten-free...and that can be tricky also if you can't have xanthan or guar gum.

I bake spelt for DH and keep trying to find a decent rice based bread recipe for me.  I find plenty with good taste, but the texture leaves something to be desired.

As for your question about almond flour; indeed there is such a thing and it is quite good.  For recipes using almond flour, try looking on the web at low carb forums.  Elana's Pantry has some nice recipes and she's also a published cookbook author.  Almond flour works great for quick breads, but would be heavy in a yeast application so you'll have to experiment.

Hope this helps.

Changeling

use all your alternative flours you just mentioned, mixing as matching as you wish and make this basic recipe.
it always turns out right!
add less egg,
focaccia
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/breads/r/flaxbasicfoc.htm
video
http://video.about.com/lowcarbdiets/Focaccia-Style-Flax-Bread.htm

Under the fermented, sprouting thread, I experimented using dahl flour (pigeon pea really but then, I thought it was a lentil, but it is really a pea?  I referenced it there as a lentil alomond loaf !!! sorry).  Anyhow, I used dahl flour and almond and the texture was fantastic, but the taste was too bitter at the start! but then it got milder within the next day or two, and we ended up having a couple of beautiful meals with a bean savory topping.

I would like to see that recipe happening using rice flour instead!  I think it should work well, but I have not had time to try it, I will let you know if I do. My aim in trying these, is to get the benefits of fermentation using alternatives flours to any form of wheat ...  

OK I had great success with my White Spelt Bread - I have made it twice and it is absolutely delicious.
I ordered White Spelt Flour in Bulk from Angela's Gourmet Bakery via Amazon. I have used the White Spelt BreadMachine Recipe in the database with slight adaptions for my new Zujirushi BreadMachine using for a 2 pound loaf. The loaf rose too much the first time (it didn't collapse but it was soooo tall!) the second time I used 4 1/4 cups of flour instead of 4 1/4 cups and still it rose a bit too much.
I used:
1 cup white grape juice (warm)
1/3 cup water
3 tbls Grapeseed oil
4 1/8 cups white spelt flour (next time I will use only 4 cups and slightly less water)
2 tsp yeast

Pre-heat: 20 Minutes
Knead: 15 Minutes (Spelt probably needs even less time than this)
35 Min: 1st Rise
45 Min: 2nd Rise
62 Min Bake Time
The loaf was cooked perfectly I just need to get it too rise slightly less. The texture was not crumbly, could still slice nice thin slices of bread. I don't need to freeze with 5 teens/kids walking around

great baking stooshy! Nothing beat making your own!!  Bread machines are very practical and fairly successful at producing nice loaves, provided the user feeds it the right ingreedients and settings!!    It sounds you have perfected that!! Keep it up ...  

I second Cristina - well done Stooshy!  I hope you'll keep experimenting and try different recipes.

I share this experiment with frankenbread, hypothesis and research hoping it will help others and for my records too.

Wish I could say the same.  While I was away (on holidays - that sounds suss!) I used a bread machine (Breville BBM100 http://www.breville.com.au/products_detail.asp?prod=504) for the first time and the bread was lovely and light BUT it fell in.  I mean it was like a crater the size of the grand canyon in there!    I enjoyed it anyway!  

Not sure why, maybe the small amount of gluten may have gotten overstretched, or maybe it rose too high and hit the roof.  The loaf volume wasn't too large for the bread machine (3 cups flour in a 1kg machine).  
I reduced the amount of yeast for the humidity and altitude as both can improve yeasts performance.  

Notice lots of recipes don't state the size loaf that is produced here's a guide:

Quoted Text

You may also size your recipe by the following formulas:

    * 1-pound loaf (453g) takes about 7/8 cup liquid and 2 3/4 cups flour.
    * 1.5-pound loaf (680g) takes about 1 cup liquid and 3 cups flour.
    * 2-pound loaf (907g) takes about 1 1/3 cup liquid and 4 cups flour. http://allrecipes.com/HowTo/Bread-Machine-Baking-Tips-for-Experimenting/Detail.aspx

Because of limited available ingredients I followed this recipe except omitting bread improver, the one I saw at the supermarket had wheat and lots of additives in it  :  Used the basic setting, 3/4 of the yeast and a mix of white and brown spelt (for lightness and flavour).

Quoted Text

Spelt Bread in a Breadmaker

Ingredients
1¼ cups (310ml) warm water
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 tablespoon honey
1 egg
3 ½ cups (375g) organic spelt flour
1 tablespoon bread improver
2 teaspoons yeast
1 pinch salt

Preparation method
1.           Mix together the water, oil, honey and egg. Place in pan of bread machine then add all the dry ingredients. Start the “white bread cycle” on bread machine.http://allrecipes.com.au/recipe/8454/spelt-bread-in-a-breadmaker.aspx

Now I'm back home have done some research can't wait to get a breadmaker and do more experiments.  (cue maniacal laughter)

A way to get around what I assume was the gluten being overstretched, may be:

• Use the gluten free setting, or the fast bake setting which would have shorter kneading and rising times.
  
• Add some dough enhancer.  This recipe http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Bread-Machine-Spelt-Bread/Detail.aspx uses Soy Lecithin and I wondered why.  According to this page http://www.recipelink.com/cookbooks/2000/0811816869_3.html Lecithin helps mixing and enhances gluten activity.  Also Gluten, Barley malt, or Vitamin C may help.
  
• Add some gum to give gluten like effect.  Catfish reviewed the soy lecithin recipe above saying:

  Quoted Text

  Good Bread Recipe!! I have a lot of experience baking with splet and would like to give a little advise. When making spelt bread it is a good idea to add some Zanthan Gum (about 1 tsp. per cup of spelt) This will help it to rise better. Also keep in mind that spelt doesn't have gluten in it (the reason many people use it) so it will be a more dense bread. Don't be expecting a light fluffy loaf. If you are, find a different grain!! Great Recipe!!

  
  I notice Mastic and Guar gum are in SWAMI but not Xantham.  Xantham gum is grown on corn syrup so I guess it wouldn't rate well?!
  
• I wonder if using molasses instead of honey may make the yeast rise a little slower?  Also if the yogurt (see link above) helps this one.  I know Cristina uses this recipe http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?50 with success - which is the first one I'll try when I get my own bread maker!
  

  

Symbi:

Are you using 100% whole spelt flour?  That could be one reason why it 'caves.'  I have had excellent results using a 50/50 blend.

I also note that your liquid to dry ratio may be a bit high.  For 3 1/2 C. flour, you have 26 TB of liquid ingredients.  If we were to double your flour to bring it closer to my recipe (7 C.), your liquid ingredients would equal 52 TB, giving you almost an entire cup MORE liquid.  This could be the reason for the collapse of the loaf.

"Use the gluten free setting, or the fast bake setting which would have shorter kneading and rising times."
I have used the gluten-free setting on my bread machine, but was not happy with the finished texture of the loaf.  I found it coarse and crumbly.

"Add some dough enhancer.  This recipe http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Bread-Machine-Spelt-Bread/Detail.aspx  uses Soy Lecithin and I wondered why.  According to this page http://www.recipelink.com/cookbooks/2000/0811816869_3.html  Lecithin helps mixing and enhances gluten activity.  Also Gluten, Barley malt, or Vitamin C may help."

Spelt bread does not really need anything extra to help with the rise.  Additional gluten would help the structure of the bread, improving the integrity of the rise, but the texture would be a bit more rubbery.  Barley malt and Vitamin C would only assist with the raise creating the potential for an over-raise.

"Add some gum to give gluten like effect.  Catfish reviewed the soy lecithin recipe above saying:

    Quoted Text
    Good Bread Recipe!! I have a lot of experience baking with splet and would like to give a little advise. When making spelt bread it is a good idea to add some Zanthan Gum (about 1 tsp. per cup of spelt) This will help it to rise better. Also keep in mind that spelt doesn't have gluten in it (the reason many people use it) so it will be a more dense bread. Don't be expecting a light fluffy loaf. If you are, find a different grain!! Great Recipe!!  I notice Mastic and Guar gum are in SWAMI but not Xantham.  Xantham gum is grown on corn syrup so I guess it wouldn't rate well?!"

I also bake gluten-free bread and have found that both guar and xanthan work to create a "gluten-like" finished product when there is no gluten present.  Spelt however, DOES contain gluten as it is a sub-species of wheat - Triticum aestivum var spelta.  Wheat is defined as: Triticum aestivum.  Thus, mastic, guar or xanthan gums are not needed.

"I wonder if using molasses instead of honey may make the yeast rise a little slower?  Also if the yogurt (see link above) helps this one.  I know Cristina uses this recipe http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/recipedepictor7x.cgi?50  with success - which is the first one I'll try when I get my own bread maker!"

I don't know about the yogurt, but sugar provides the necessary food for yeast so that it can doe its job.  So as long as some type of simple sugar is provided, be it honey, molasses, brown sugar, rice syrup, agave, etc. the rise will be the same.

While there is little doubt that either a bread machine or stand mixer would make the creation of this bread a bit easier, you don't really have to wait to try it.  For years, I made bread by hand and certainly, it could be done if you want to give it a go.  

My non-bread machine spelt bread recipe is as follows:

3 C. whole spelt flour
3 C. white spelt flour
(Up to 1 additional cup of flour as needed to prevent stickiness)
1 1/2 C. hot water (110 degrees)
1/3 C. oil (5 1/3 TB)
1/3 C. honey (5 1/3 TB)
1 TB yeast
1 TB salt

Add the honey and yeast to the hot water and allow to proof.  In mixing bowl combine 1 C. whole spelt, 1 C. white spelt, salt and oil.  Blend until smooth.  Add proofed yeast and remaining flour (one cup at a time) and continue adding until dough rounds into a smooth ball.  

I usually make my spelt bread in my mixer with a dough hook.  I continually check the dough to be sure that it is not too wet since the more wet the dough, the more likely it is to collapse.  So if need be, I add additional flour.  

Once the correct texture is accomplished (not dry nor sticky), I place the dough ball into a greased bowl to raise until double.  I do NOT try to hasten the raise, preferring a slow raise.  I then punch down the dough and allow to raise again.  I punch the dough down one more time, shape into TWO loaves and place each into a 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 greased bread pan.

Allow to raise until dough is about 1 1/2" above rim of pan.  Heat oven to 350.  Bake 30 minutes or until bread registers 190-200 degrees.  If your dough doesn't reach that range, it will remain wet and collapse.

Remove bread to cooling racks to cool completely before slicing.

The rise is excellent and the texture of this bread is superb.  Using this recipe, I've never had a failure.

Changeling

Sorry, i still got the photos in the  camera, I will post here (check reply 114):
http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-btdlf1/m-1277859580/s-114/
as soon as I can.

This last spelt bread I made with no kneading, no commercial yeast at all, no yogurt, no sweetness, no bread enhancer.  Just plain old organic, white spelt flour.  I did not use bread machine and I baked it in a casserole dish.  The bread rised to the top of the dish in a matter of (from 8:30pm to 4:30am) 8 hours.  The casserole dish is about 11cm high ...  

Symbi, keep trying, take your time, you may want to start making your own bread dough starter to make your breads, instead of commercial yeast.  It produces a sort of sour taste bread which I find delicious, but my nonnie DD, although loves the texture, she is still getting used to the taste, so she tops it with peanut butter or ghee and honey, and loves it that way!  Just in case you think it is a 'nonnie' thing, my hubby, also nonnie, loves it!!  We are all tasters or supertasters too!!! To each their own (where did I hear that before?).

Mmmm, we should have a bread making weekend somewhere, a few of us, get together and create a flour storm!!!

Symbi

Welcome back - I hope you had a fab holiday with your Mum!!

I see there is already loads of great advice to help you along with your bread baking.  I've had huge success with the recipe (slightly adapted from the recipe base here) that I posted earlier in this thread.  I use a rapid bake cycle and it turns out fantastic - ligtht and fluffy (like wheat bread) when using 100% white spelt.  I have successfully made a, slightly more dense but equally delicious, loaf using up to 50% whole spelt flour too.  The recipe has grape juice as a sweetener (I reduced the original amount as the bread was too sweet for my tastes and substituted extra water) and no eggs and it's really good.

As Changeling said, spelt does have it's own gluten (albeit less than modern wheat) and I've never needed to add any gum to make it rise well - even when baking my own by hand.  Happy (maniacal   experimenting)!

Let us know how you get on.

Andy

I think you're right, Changeling, couldn't see the forest for the trees, that recipe I used maybe had too much liquid!  and that might be why it collapsed.  Really liked the moist result even though it caved in!   Still I'd like to try adding some lecithin or allowable? gum to bread to experiment with different recipes.

I've been making spelt bread by hand for many months now.  I found the basic recipe (very similar to yours Changeling - slightly more liquid though and uses butter/ghee instead of oil http://www.thenewhomemaker.com/node/69439) too dry especially after freezing.  A tip for freezing is, when cooled wrap in foil and then plastic to keep the moisture in.

Then I made Spelt loaf 2 from here http://www.makeitandbakeit.com.au/spelt_bread.htm is beaut with pumpkin and spices.  Nice and moist.  

Since then I've been replacing some of the liquid with heavy moist ingredients like yogurt, pumpkin, banana, rice milk, eggs which made it lots better.
  
Except the last loaf I made wouldn't rise well in the cold, so had to rise it in the oven and maybe I over-rose it because after the second rise it stayed flat (or had it been run over?)     

Sick of having baking take all day (difficult when dropping/picking up children from school and other commitments) and making a huge mess all over the kitchen and feeling like the bread is too precious to share around as it take me so much energy to make (with chronic fatigue).  Hence wanting a bread maker and my birthday is coming up.  

Some people may like a dry loaf and like Jenny says it makes great toast.  You may already know this my diabetic mate Jenny, toasting the bread lowers the GI of bread! and it tastes good too!

Munchkin - G'day mate, had a good holiday thanks!
Glad you make your own nice healthy bread, so when am I invited over? he he That grape juice recipe looks good but I'm not sure where to get white grape juice (not fermented anyway!  ). I wonder if red grape juice would be ok?

Cristina - that bread of yours is TBG!  Good on ya.  Lucky people in your house.  It would be good to have a baking party.  We could be the triple D's.  D'Adamo Dough Devotees!

Oh a question, Changeling, last handmade loaf of mine by hand that collapsed I also mixed for the first time using a dough hook.  Do you think it's possible to over mix?  How long do you mix yours for?  
It seemed to take longer to mix than it would by hand so I reduced the kneading time.  I wonder if that's why it gave up rising.  I was using a recipe that I'd used before successfully.

When I add those heavy liquid ingredients I like the result but the dough becomes very sticky and hard to work with sticking to the bench and all. So I thought a breadmaker would help with that.

Each loaf seems to have a life of it's own!  

Symbi: Yes, you are right there.  Each is a unique experience and it can be very entertaining at times, but, as you are finding out, also, a bit tiring.  When that happens, (getting tiring), it is time to go to the basics, simplicity wins the day.  Make sure you do not overdo it in the kitchen, look after yourself!!

BTW, quite a detective work you are doing with your breads ... I am sure you will soon get to the bottom of it, or is it the 'top' (as in rising) of it ...   DDD!!!

he he   DDD member who makes AAA bread, thanks! from the top of my bread.  True time to go back to basics.  Spelt is so yummy anyway no matter what we do with it!

Just realised why i feel so cruddy and am starting a new thread (normally I just hijack others - well because I don't like having too many threads on the same subject - what am I an octopus?!).  Am bidding on a Breville Breadmaker today wish me luck!