Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register


Main Forum Page  ♦   Latest Posts  ♦   Member Center  ♦   Search  ♦   Archives   ♦   Help   ♦   Log In/Out   ♦   Admins
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Nomads, Immune Function, and Inflammation
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 2 Guests

Nomads, Immune Function, and Inflammation  This thread currently has 861 views. Print Print Thread
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
TJ
Friday, August 22, 2008, 12:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
I have a couple of questions to pose about the relationship between immune system activity, inflammation, and diet, specifically the Nomad diet.  I have arthritis in my lower back because of a mildly malformed vertebra (articular tropism of the L5 for those curious), and have noticed that the GTD hasn't been as effective at controlling my lower back pain as BTD was.  I still want to reap the epigenetic benefits of the GTD, so that's why I am staying on it instead of going back to BTD.

So this is what I need to know: does improved immune system reactivity necessarily create more tissue inflammation?  I understand that inflammation is one type of immune system response, but can my sluggish Nomad immune system be aroused without more inflammation?  Can I limit or eliminate inflammatory superfoods without losing the immune system boost I get from GTD?

I have read that rice is inflammatory.  I can limit my rice (I use brown or brown basmati) if I have other grains I can use in its place.  Are oat bran, millet, or quinoa inflammatory?  Also, I'm sure that many of the Nomad cheeses are inflammatory, but which ones aren't?  What about yogurt?  I don't have the arthritis book, so I can't look up the recommendations there to compare with the Nomad food list.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message
mikeo
Friday, August 22, 2008, 3:08am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Hunter ESFJ
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 2,710
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 50
all the B pro inflammatory foods from the Arthritis book are avoids for Nomads

try the membrane fluid cocktail


try Cat's Claw 500mg twice daily

I would reduce your Nomad carb intake to one serving a day as B's with arthritis according to the book are allowed 5 to 9 servings per week


RHN MIfHI

Revision History (1 edits)
mikeo  -  Friday, August 22, 2008, 3:25am
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 1 - 19
JJR
Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,960
Gender: Male
Location: Caledonia, WI
Age: 42
Interesting.  I've been having to eat about 3 servings of grain a day to just maintain my weight.  Hmmmmmm.....  But I don't have arthritis.  I don't think.  

Hope your back feels better drive.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 2 - 19
Kristin
Friday, August 22, 2008, 3:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT6 Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 2,493
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado
Age: 53
I have also upped my intake of rice and cut out spelt and Ezekiel bread and I have noticed an increase in inflammation as well.

But for me it is hard to tell what it is from since I have gone through so many changes this year. The one that is most baffling is my increase in allergies... both seasonal allergies and my reactivity to certain metals. So I don't know what is causing it, but I didn't think that rice would be the culprit...  

I have gone back to eating B cheeses rather than nomad ones.


The true meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

- Nelson Henderson
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 3 - 19
Ron-A-Non
Friday, August 22, 2008, 3:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
drive,

I found out that, apparently, the disruption from microbial infection as brought on by a weakened immune system can look an awful, awful lot like the disruption from inflammation as brought on by an overactive immune system, which is the precise opposite.  In your case (which, it turns out, is also mine), I'd say that inflammation is the precise opposite of what's happening.

I say this because I had a look at the GTD book again and, on page 112, if you have a look at it, also, you'll notice that, at the bottom, it places the "Teacher" (which is me) and "Nomad" (which is you) types together as the "tolerant" physiological types.  That means that our problems will generally be brought on not by hyper-inflammation but, rather, the precise opposite:  hypo-inflammation and microbial infiltration and tissue damage, all due to a sluggish immune system.

I know that we nonnies don't have the antigen defense option, so we have to rely upon our immunocytes to deal with invaders, almost exclusively.  Normally, it would be hard for me to know if you do better on one diet or another because your immunocyte system is overtaxed and sluggish and you are living in a state of overinfection from microbial overgrowth due to carb-rich foods, or if your immunocyte system is working too well, and causing hyperinflammation.

Personally, I'd go with the vulnerability and overinfection option, for the reasons I've stated above.  Do you have a copy of the BTD Encyclopedia?  I just took a look at it and it says that, for you B nonnies, the rice carbs are the best... as far as carbs ever go for nonnies, and for overtolerant immune types such as ourselves.  Be aware, however, that, with a Nomad's sluggish immune system and inactivity, increased carbs amount to microbe fuel and tissue damage.

Based the GTD book, I would suggest that you focus on being antimicrobial.  You might try getting some anti-sugar formulas like NAP's "Glycosia", which contains maitake mushroom and, especially, some of the "Rekon Pro" formula to amp up your immune system.  

Revision History (3 edits)
mikeo  -  Friday, August 22, 2008, 4:24pm
mikeo  -  Friday, August 22, 2008, 4:23pm
mikeo  -  Friday, August 22, 2008, 4:18pm
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 4 - 19
TJ
Friday, August 22, 2008, 4:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from mikeo
all the B pro inflammatory foods from the Arthritis book are avoids for Nomads

That is good news!

Quoted from mikeo
try the membrane fluid cocktail

I use it almost every day, sometimes twice a day.

Quoted from mikeo
try Cat's Claw 500mg twice daily

Will look into it.

Quoted from mikeo
I would reduce your Nomad carb intake to one serving a day

I'm pretty close to that already, especially if the serving size is dry, not cooked.

Quoted from JJR
I've been having to eat about 3 servings of grain a day to just maintain my weight.

3 a day might help me gain some needed weight, but that would probably make my back worse, unless the other Nomad grains aren't inflammatory.  (Thanks for the good wishes!)

Quoted from Kristin
The one that is most baffling is my increase in allergies... both seasonal allergies and my reactivity to certain metals.

Allergies are an immune system overreaction.  Maybe the Nomad diet was working too good on yours!  I used to have some allergies pre-BTD, but fortunately, I haven't noticed a return on GTD.

Quoted from Kristin
I have gone back to eating B cheeses rather than nomad ones.

I suspect the Nomad cheeses are partially to blame, too.  They are so much more tangy and provocative to the taste buds than the B cheeses, so I wonder if they are provoking inflammation too.  But they sure are tastier than the B-nonnie selection!

Quoted from 521
the disruption from microbial infection as brought on by a weakened immune system can look an awful, awful lot like the disruption from inflammation as brought on by an overactive immune system

True, but my "gut" (heheh) reaction to this idea is that is probably isn't the right explanation for my case.  Also, is it possible to have yeast AND bacterial overgrowth?  They are competing for some of the same resources.  My candida is much better (few symptoms), but I still see it holding on tight where it's entrenched itself on the back of my tongue.
_________________________________________

So, does anyone know about those other grains?
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 5 - 19
Raquel
Friday, August 22, 2008, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI TEACHER
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 1,458
Gender: Female
Location: Tenerife-Spain
Age: 50
I´m still in BTD because GTD has many cheese and I notice that´s not goog for my allergies and inflamation.Also I try eat many SF and diamonds...

Lola said to me: don´t eat avoids from allergies (or arthritis) book, even though they are SF or diamonds in GTD.


Teacher's motto, "all you need is love".
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 6 - 19
Amazone I.
Friday, August 22, 2008, 7:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 16,318
Gender: Female
Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 56
hhhmmmm.....

I'm still willing to suscribe this coz of your young ages ...but I disagreee formally... most coz YOU said that you posses a degree of psyche... bla's....
sweetpie half of mine... I learned last night.... that ther's
a booklet from Louise Hay: *heal your body A-Z, the mental cause for physical illness and the way to overcome them*...
then lurk into the Dr. Sarn's books ...mind over backpain for ex.
and...and..and... stop immediately to believe onto....
and some other thingy is...get your candida issue solved as quick as possible!!!
We, the nonnies are susceptible to such annoying things...so we have to be aware with whom we share our time as well....



pst..pst..
still convinced about my A2B- nonnieness


MIfHI K-174
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 7 - 19
TJ
Friday, August 22, 2008, 7:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from Amazone I.
I'm still willing to suscribe this coz of your young ages ...but I disagreee formally... most coz YOU said that you posses a degree of psyche... bla's....

Isa, to whom is this statement addressed?  I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 8 - 19
JJR
Saturday, August 23, 2008, 2:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,960
Gender: Male
Location: Caledonia, WI
Age: 42
I don't know if the grains are making my Candida any worse or not.  I'm also drinking something called fire tree bark tea to kill it.  But you start out with just a 1/4 teaspoon a day and work up very slowly.

But anyways, I find that I am really sensitive to grains though.  Like Millet is supposed to be Beneficial for AB's but I tried it again this week and it sat in my stomach like a brick.  I can eat quinoa, rice and oatmeal.  Oatmeal may be the one my body likes least out of the 3 but not terribly. Rice and Quinoa don't seem to bother me at all.  Every once in a while oatmeal will if I eat too much.  But in smaller amounts it's OK. For some reason sweet potatoes go down really easy too.  I can almost overeat them with no digestion problems.  But I do realize these don't kill candida, yet I think you NEED some kind of grain to sustain yourself.  It has just taken me a while to figure out what works.  Hopefully it doesn't feed the yeast too much.  I guess time will tell.

Do you take any Holy Basil?  It's supposed to help with inflammation.  I heard cat's claw does too.  I did take that at one time, but not any longer.

Also, it could be the weather is changing.  My son's asthma seems to be kicking up and there are leaves starting to fall on some of my trees.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 9 - 19
Victoria
Saturday, August 23, 2008, 3:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
Moderator
Posts: 15,399
Gender: Female
Location: Oregon
These are some very good considerations, Drive!  I am still adjusting to the Genotype program, because it is changing my body in a different way than the BTD did.

I still need to take 500 mg. bromelain 3 x day in order to be pain-free.  I tried doing without it, and the aching in my joints returned.  In general, the nomad diet is helping me to be more resistant to bacterial infections (low grade, which was my style) and candida.  I keep a bottle of Candidase by Enzymedica in the house at all times, and occasionally I pick it up and take for a few days.  I can sense the candida imbalance by digestive sluggishness and gas.  It only takes 2 to 3 days of these enzymes to put that issue back in order.

I like Ron's suggestions about the medicinal mushrooms.  I was going to suggest Cordyceps, Maitake and Reishi, among others.  I get these from Dragonherbs.com and take them on a regular basis.  I also like Ron's suggestion of Rekon Pro.  It is a very powerful immune support formula, and with practice, I have come to notice when I need it.  It only needs to be taken for a few days, to bring the immune function back into line.

As far as the grains, I don't know which are more or less inflammatory among the ones I eat, which is only rice and millet, with very occasional quinoa.  I seem to feel much better if I eat a little bit of grain every day.  More than that, it becomes counterproductive.  Interesting balance.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 10 - 19
Ribbit
Saturday, August 23, 2008, 3:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
ABNW, are you cooking millet like you would rice and quinoa, or are you grinding it into flour?  If I cook millet whole it sits on my stomach, but if I use it as a flour in baking it's fine.

Drive, would you do an experiment for me?  Would you juice a lime and drink it down straight and then go look at your tongue?  


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 11 - 19
Amazone I.
Sunday, August 24, 2008, 7:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh+ GT 4...E/..INTJ ....prop.=non-taster..
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 16,318
Gender: Female
Location: CH-Benglen Kanton Z�rich
Age: 56
drive 55 it was meant that coz of you degree you should have lurked beyond all those issues...the  psychosomatic point in our nonnieness plays a huge role as well ....


MIfHI K-174
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 12 - 19
TJ
Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
Quoted from Ribbit
Drive, would you do an experiment for me?  Would you juice a lime and drink it down straight and then go look at your tongue?  

I just drank about 1/2 c. lime juice (from a bottle, not a fresh lime).  Didn't see any difference on my tongue.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 13 - 19
Ribbit
Sunday, August 24, 2008, 9:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
Hm.  I was hoping the acid would cut the goop like it does for me.  When you have a fresh lime would you try it again?


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 14 - 19
TJ
Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
I can't even get out all this "goop" with my toothbrush.  Well, at least, on the part of my tongue I can brush without gagging!  It seems thoroughly entrenched, and I'm sure it will have to be attacked from the inside.  I'm not terribly concerned about it atm, because I don't have symptoms (that I noticed), and even when I eat stuff full of starch and sugar (like oat bran with honey and molasses) it doesn't seem to spread much.

Maybe I should go low-grain again for another week or two, once I've gained some more weight.  Heaven knows I don't need to be any skinnier than I am now!  I hope that once my body has finished repairs on my gut than it will start building a bit more skeletal muscle and attacking the candida alien with more zest.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 15 - 19
eh
Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Sam Dan
Posts: 752
Hmmm, after feeling generally well I too have noticed some increasing inflammation, namely hayfever and sinusitis - congested and runny nose in the morning mainly. It's been unusually cold this Autumn and this has worsened the inflammation for me. I'm back on Vit C, garlic and horseradish tablets and they are working really well. Horseradish is a diamond food for nomads so maybe that'll help some nomads if used as a supplement in dealing with allergies, hayfever, sinusitis. (I don't know which supplements are recommended for Nomads in this case.) I've never had candida, so can't help there, but I do eat garlic daily.


Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 16 - 19
Ribbit
Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
Hey, now there's an idea.  How about cutting into a fresh clove of garlic and rubbing it on the back of your tongue.  Yeah, I guess you'll gag, but what if it kills whatever's growing there?

Certain foods make it worse for me, without apparent reason.  I've noticed that carob is one.  My tongue will be chalky white after I eat something with carob.  It doesn't stop me from eating it, but it does raise an eyebrow.  Also, sometimes too much tofu does it, and sometimes peanut butter does it.  Who knows why?  It wears off though.  What I used to have sounds like what you have now.  There was a chronic gray-ish/yellow-ish coating all over my tongue that could partly scrape off but not entirely.  It's gone now.  I hope you can get a handle on yours as well, Drive.  I certainly understand how frustrating it can be.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 17 - 19
TJ
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

54% Nomad
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 3,486
Gender: Male
Location: Midvale, UT, USA
Age: 39
It's funny how I will say one thing on the forums, only to turn around and find out I was wrong directly after clicking "Post" (or pretty close).  I had a bowl of oat bran with honey and molasses shortly after that last post, and just for fun I looked at my tongue in the mirror.  Yep, coated tip to tonsils.  I am going to have to back off the honey and molasses, and start using more xylitol (cringe, it's SOOOO expensive)...and I need to try out this vegetable glycerin, too.  I hope it's the sweeteners causing it, and not the oat bran itself.
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 18 - 19
Ribbit
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 12:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~W~A~R~R~I~O~R~ Defender, Survivor
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 8,156
Gender: Female
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Age: 36
Yeah, yeah, try some.  I'd be interested in knowing if your tongue responds better.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 19 - 19
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
Print Print Thread

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  Nomads, Immune Function, and Inflammation

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread