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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  So which O GT can survive Veganism better?
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So which O GT can survive Veganism better?  This thread currently has 5,828 views. Print Print Thread
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Andrea AWsec
Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI INFJ Warrior Taster
Kyosha Nim
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I am wondering if the Hunter's or the Gatherer's can survive vegan/vegetariansim longer?

I don't think there is a real answer.

Any O's love being vegetarians?


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Amazone I.
Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I do have O-clients, mostly secretors who are vegetarians, I always recommend to go for Forskolin as a supplement   they are mostly all thinny people.....


MIfHI K-174
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speedy
Monday, July 14, 2008, 3:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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When I did the detox diet just using vegan and vegetarian foods - I went down with shingles - having no meat did not suit me at all although during my "yoga class years" I did stop eating red meat for a while
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Bekki Shining Bearheart
Monday, July 14, 2008, 4:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have known O vegetarians, and was vegetarian 2 times during my life. The first time age 16-19-- became anemic and has to quit. Again in late 20's - early 30's for 8 years. Put on weight, developed fibroids, was fatigued all the time (never felt rested even with 10 hours' sleep) and was beginning to get arthritic when I discovered the BTD. I think around 1996-97? My life changed dramatically in 2 weeks. ALL of my symptoms improved- joint pain GONE. Sleep patterns improved 80%.

I have seen the same kinds of changes in O friends willing to try the diet. Unfortunately none of the Os I know who have stayed with vegetarian/vegan eating have improved in health. Some have got much worse. Understand that I'm 54 and I'm thinking about the 40-60 year olds that I have watched through the getting older (won't say aging!) process.

I cannot do dairy-- I don't really try, even though Explorers can have some. I just get mucusy from it. So I suppose that is a plus for O vegans. But the problem is that many plant based protein foods available commercially are wheat based, and that also I don't tolerate. I stay away from most grains and find that I do much better. Beans and Nuts are also not so good for me. I'm sure there are Os that can do them. What does that leave? Not much...
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Lola
Monday, July 14, 2008, 6:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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your testimonial is a keeper!!
thanks!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, July 14, 2008, 6:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer; iNfj; BTD/GTD aficionado; lost 97 lbs
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Andrea AWsec
I am wondering if the Hunter's or the Gatherer's can survive vegan/vegetariansim longer?

What a good question!

I think, just riffin' off the cuff here, that while Gatherers might be able to go along a tad longer without MEAT than Hunters, so in that sense, we could survive being a veggie better, on the other hand, Hunters could drop the excess weight gained by going veggie (or grainy, more like) faster AND their insulin recepters could recover quicker, so it is six one way and half a dozen the other.  Bottom line:  O's, eat your humanely-raised, sustainably-raised, organic meat.



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Peppermint Twist  -  Monday, July 14, 2008, 6:41pm
removed my inexplicable use of apostrophes
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jayneeo
Monday, July 14, 2008, 7:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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just curious: do explorers eat much meat? seems like they may eat the least meat, but I could be wrong...I think they don't do beef...
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Andrea AWsec
Monday, July 14, 2008, 7:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo
just curious: do explorers eat much meat? seems like they may eat the least meat, but I could be wrong...I think they don't do beef...







Nope, Warriors have the Explorers beat on the meat thing.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

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Andrea AWsec  -  Monday, July 14, 2008, 7:40pm
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jayneeo
Monday, July 14, 2008, 7:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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yeah, but the question was only about O's. I imagine a warrior would have no problem being vegan, but no O can be a warrior.
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Andrea AWsec
Monday, July 14, 2008, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I was answering a question regarding meat consumption.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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jayneeo
Monday, July 14, 2008, 9:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from jayneeo
just curious: do explorers eat much meat? seems like they may eat the least meat, but I could be wrong...I think they don't do beef...


sorry, andrea, I should have said..."of O's...etc."

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Jenny
Monday, July 14, 2008, 9:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo


sorry, andrea, I should have said..."of O's...etc."

I'm interested in this question too, for a friend.She is a yoga/vegetarian O type, and quite ill off and on, but simply can't stomach much if any meat. She hasn't done the measurements yet, but I am guessing Gatherer by her appearance.
I was hoping that this turns out to be the case, and that she will then try Gatherer with very little red meat.




Eating half and exercising double.
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jayneeo
Monday, July 14, 2008, 9:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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yes, I believe a gatherer or explorer could actually eat all fish or maybe fish with a little turkey now and then and be ok.....hope you can convince her....
I was a long time vegetarian as past posts on the subject can show....had health issues to undo, but enjoy great health now.
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Andrea AWsec
Monday, July 14, 2008, 11:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from jayneeo
but enjoy great health now.




MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Bekki Shining Bearheart
Monday, July 14, 2008, 11:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Lola- that was the short version!

I think one of the reasons I haven't had as much overall damage from the vegetarian days is that my family always ate out of the garden, or had venison or other quality meat. My dad never let us do the junk food thing, and I learned to love good food and cooking from scratch and gardening.

I love lean, grass fed beef and feel pretty good when I eat it, but fish and wild game are my favorites. It has actually been hard getting used to so much lamb (since my husband is a B we have tended toward lamb and beef-- we get it from local farmers at our farmer's market, which features a lot of organic stuff (there's a lot of interest in that in our community). Lamb can be a bit fatty to my taste. We can also get goat here, from local folks, but only in the fall. The hardest thing about being vegetarian was that I seriously craved meat one week out of every month. The diet really made sense to me because of that.

I'm not sure it is so important to get lots of meat as to have it every day, several times a day. Though I noticed when I changed to the BTD that I could eat gobs more food of all kinds and still lose weight.

The one thing I have trouble with in the book is that it will say eat fish so many times a week and meat so many times a week, but nowhere that I could find does it say eat so many grams/ ounces etc of animal protein a day/week. I try to pay attention to what my body says, and frankly if I need a pick me up I always go for the animal protein even if it's just a few ounces. Plant proteins just don't do the same thing for me.

Jenny, is your friend vegetarian for reasons of conscience, or because she really doesn't like meat? And is it red meat or any meat that she doesn't care for? I have a friend (a B Explorer) who will eat meat but just can't bring herself to eat those little lambies (she really says that). I really appreciate that. I didn't want to eat animals either, in my head. But my body did. It's always a balancing act. I decided that I wouldn't do the world any favors by being ill, low-functioning etc. I had so much more to give when I became healthier. I made a choice to shop for my food consciously-- all of it, not just the meat. Doing that, and seeing how the diet change improved not just my life but the lives of everyone I touched, I could live with it. Every being in the world causes damage, death or decay at some point in its life cycle. We as humans can live consciously in order to minimize the cost to other beings. Once I looked at it that way I was free to listen better to my body and make choices based on my whole being.

Andrea, thanks for the question-- I never really had the opportunity to articulate this in this way. It was a huge thing for me to make the switch, but I never have regretted it.
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Rebecca_C
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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We need Accidental Chef over here!!!  Seriously, culturally she is a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) so could probably provide some excellent inputs.


Mum to two gorgeous Alaskan Malamutes named Omen and Anoki
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Jenny
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 5:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Bekki, my friend has conscience issues, but also does not like red meat at all. she has tried to force herself to eat a little beef (from my BTD days) but did not like it. I have given her the GTD book, and hope that it will inspire her to try again, hopefully Gatherer as that is less meaty.



Eating half and exercising double.
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accidental_chef
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 6:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Rebecca_C
We need Accidental Chef over here!!!  Seriously, culturally she is a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) so could probably provide some excellent inputs.


Thank you Bec, just what the Boards need-another of AC's diatribes .

Andrea, I would hazard a guess that O & B Gatherers would find it easier to be vegetarians. Having said that, I feel that an O or  B for that matter, who comes from a culture of being vegetarian wouldnt have any problems being vegetarians if they kept away from wheat. South Indians for example ate millet and rice before the arrival of wheat. We have generations of families who have never ever eaten meat or fish and they seem just fine with their vegetarian diets.

I think you need to have a few generations of vegetarians in your genetic hardisk to feel OK with it.


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

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Rex
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Bekki...wonderful testimony...I totally feel the same as you do & the improvement in my well-being is as remarkable as yours...people tell me that I don't look like I will be turning 70 in March...we have to change people's perception of what a 70 year old person looks like. A few years ago I met a 70 year old woman who looked great...ever since then I made the decision to work at being as fit as she...with the help of the BTD/GTD...I've done it. Congratulations on your success.
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Andrea AWsec
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 1:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Ah, so my vegan sister must be an O Gatherer.. if she was a Hunter it would  make her much more sick. She does not eat wheat.


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

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Andrea AWsec  -  Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 1:36pm
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Mrs T O+
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 1:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Can your friend start with turkey? Isn't that a bennie for all types & maybe gentler than beef?
BTW, my son's girlfriend is a vegetarian. She has a lot of dairy & likes avocados, etc. Her personality is also very sweet. I thought that too much dairy made people surly & cranky. I hope she is an A, but even As need some fish & poultry once in a while.
Sea Salt & Light,
Mrs "T"    O+


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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Bekki Shining Bearheart
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 8:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rex, this age thing is something I'm really conscious of-- my spouse person is a B Nomad who will turn 72 in September. He gets really made when people get "age-ist"!

He himself probably has pretty good genes, and he takes excellent care of himself. He also is very diverse in his eating habits, does lots of quality veggies and meat, and gets a fair amount of appropriate exercise and outdoor time. He follows the diet in most things, has given up beans for the most part (doesn't digest them very well), and eats chicken very occasionally, but loves Chinese food which he cooks very well (an ex is Chinese and so his daughter is half Chinese). He is heartsick that I as an Explorer cannot do soy products which means no tamari, which he refuses to give up. I tell him that when I have solved the last of my health problems, which I believe may be rooted in the molds and fermented foods issue, I will think about eating tamari again!!!!

All this to say that he looks 10 years younger than he is, and can outwork some of the healthy men we know who are in their 30s. For that matter at 54 I can outwork women half my age, some of them seemingly in really good shape.

I think that most of us are raised to believe  in the myths of aging. For that matter there are a lot of myths about childhood too. In indigenous societies children begin learning hunting, gathering and gardening skills at an early age. My husband, who was a silversmith when I met him, began teaching his daughter to use his tools and design jewelry for him at age 4! By 8 she was making her own pieces and selling them. We need to think very differently about our productivity and usefulness as humans, if we want to live happy fulfilled, LONG lives. Which is also the best reason I can think of to do the Diet...
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jayneeo
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 8:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree on all points and appreciate your sharing very much, Bekki!
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koahiatamadl
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm not sure it is so important to get lots of meat as to have it every day, several times a day. Though I noticed when I changed to the BTD that I could eat gobs more food of all kinds and still lose weight.

The one thing I have trouble with in the book is that it will say eat fish so many times a week and meat so many times a week, but nowhere that I could find does it say eat so many grams/ ounces etc of animal protein a day/week. I try to pay attention to what my body says, and frankly if I need a pick me up I always go for the animal protein even if it's just a few ounces.


What books have you got?

BTD portion and frequency guidelines are in LR
GTD portion and frequency guidelines are in the GTD book
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Bekki Shining Bearheart
Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Books I have
Eat Right
Live Right
Cook right
Genotype

Health Library (mostly so I can lend to others when they need them, to get them started):
Diabetes
Cardiovascular
Cancer
Arthritis
Menopause
Aging (wince)

Wish there was one for Thyroid Disease...

I started using the Live Right when it came out, occasionally referring to the others. Have been using the Genotype Diet since Feb, pretty exclusively, since I am an Explorer and it's a pretty idiosyncratic type.

I find it difficult to sort out questions like frequency of animal proteins though.

And another thing, while I do like that way more species of fish are listed, having these neutrals that are not listed makes me worry-- what if something fairly obscure that I like is not listed? Can I be sure that it has really been checked out?

At the same time, this is emerging science and better to have some answers than none at all.
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