I found this interesting because since going into Perimenopause, my poor breasts have been hurting so bad and I've been weeding through my diet trying to find the culprit of my increased estrogen.  Well, when starting the GTD, I found that Grapefruit and it's juice were SUPER foods, so I delved in as I love both.  

So I'm thinking maybe this might be a culprit based on this study I read in the April issue of Self Magazine:

"Grapefruit may elevate the odds of developing breast cancer, at least in post menopausal women.  A study of 50,000 older women in British Journal of Cancer found that those who ate half a grapefruit every other day were 30 percent more likely to develop breast cancer than women who never ate it.  Compounds in the fruit block the production of an enzyme that helps your body metabolize estrogen; the more estrogen in your system, the higher your risk.  More research needs to be done, but if you're concerned, switch to oranges, which don't have the same hormonal effect.

Anybody know of this study?  I think I'll google for more....

I love grapefruit but it makes me hurt like the dickens so I'm avoiding it right now. Grapefruit sure is a hard fruit to love!   It is one of the few things that bother me that I haven't simply turned against and forgotten. I still want to like the stuff!

Humm that's interesting Spring.  I wonder if increased estrogen causes swelling...   which of course would cause pain.

I put Agave Syrup on my fresh ones and Stevia in the juice.  I just love it in the mornings... but now I'm suspecious that it's my pain culprit... sigh.

did you follow the menopause book before GTD?
how is grapefruit rated there?

Quoted from Lola

did you follow the menopause book before GTD?
how is grapefruit rated there?

No I didn't but grapefruit is an avoid for menopause.  I'm was hoping that changed with the GT diet because the menopause book was based on the BTD.  

well there you go then!
it s good to follow your GT guidelines with your menopause symptoms in mind....same with other health issues and such, until the body balances out.

a gtd swami program, designed for your physiology, might also have grapefruit as an avoid, perhaps?

we need to use common sense here, in our food choices.

Grapefruit is supposed to be a superfood for me too but it bothers me. Lately the only thing I've had is the juice, so maybe the fruit would be better, but having candida issues, so avoiding it all together. This is something to think about tho.  

Well, that's not good. Grapefruit is on my superfoods list  
Question number 56 for Dr. D. I don't know what to do now.
I was just going to eat it tonight too.

I'm looking in my menopause book and grapefruit is Neutral allowed frequently for Type O.  

Quoted from Suzanne

I'm looking in my menopause book and grapefruit is Neutral allowed frequently for Type O.  

OPPS!   I was looking in the Arthritis book!  

sorry!  

Glad you looked!  So now we are back to what the study said as far as looking at this.

I haven't had it now in 3 days and my breasts are still sore.  

Do breasts grow in perimenopause or in mid-life (49)?

As they are so sore and feel so swollen now.

Self magazine printed this, right? It is not a medical journal, do they quote a source of this information?
Taking blood type and geno type into account is essential when reading any information.
  If we can find the actual study it would  help in evaluating the information for accuracy.
  

Quoted from Andrea AWsec

Self magazine printed this, right? It is not a medical journal, do they quote a source of this information?
Taking blood type and geno type into account is essential when reading any information.
  If we can find the actual study it would  help in evaluating the information for accuracy.
  

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/07/cancer_grapefruit.html

Quoted from Suzanne

I'm looking in my menopause book and grapefruit is Neutral allowed frequently for Type O.  

If one is following GTD, don't the health series books become null and void? The encyclopedia supps are.    and speaking of that, what about the protocols? if one is following GTD are they null and void as well?

I've just noticed this thread, interesting for me as I posted about this a few months ago when the information first appeared in the press. I used to have a grapefruit every morning for breakfast, am now 51, have been prone to breast pain in one breast on and off (not right now). There were various helpful replies but the bottom line for me was that, much as I really love grapefruit, the uncertainty completely spoiled my enjoyment so I sadly gave them up. Incidentally, re breast pain, I don't think that stopping grapefruit necessarily made a difference but that quite possibly, an Omega-3 capsule three times possibly has.

Quoted from italybound

If one is following GTD, don't the health series books become null and void? The encyclopedia supps are.    and speaking of that, what about the protocols? if one is following GTD are they null and void as well?

My thoughts since the beginning as well!  I just didn't know how to ask the questions!  

I would suspect that Dr. D is working on a whole new set of health series books based on the GTD info. and 'science.'  

I mean it has been said several times that the BTD and the  GTD are two different entities and not necessarily to be combined.

Quoted from 1323

My thoughts since the beginning as well!  I just didn't know how to ask the questions!  

Me either. Now I feel like if I'm going to GTD, which I want to, I have a whole bunch of books here that are not helpful and none other than the GTD book, that are. It's very disheartening. Not to mention, if we have to pay to use the GTD site, that is out for me as well, as many others, so we  only have the GTD book and our awesome members here to help us out.

Funkymuse, there might be some information in this article that could be helpful.

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=1133455

Been there and done the many hormonal imbalance years and my experience has been that estrogen
dominance and a lessening of progesterone being produced each month during cycles where
you're not ovulating during peri menopause is the culprit behind the breast tenderness and other awful estrogen dominance symptoms.  

It helps to both increase natural progesterone while at the same time taking supplements that
helps remove excess estrogen in the body.  From NAP checkout Fem Balance, Aromastat and
Hepatiguard.  I have taken all three with good results.

Quoted from Chloe

Funkymuse, there might be some information in this article that could be helpful.

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=1133455

Been there and done the many hormonal imbalance years and my experience has been that estrogen
dominance and a lessening of progesterone being produced each month during cycles where
you're not ovulating during peri menopause is the culprit behind the breast tenderness and other awful estrogen dominance symptoms.  

It helps to both increase natural progesterone while at the same time taking supplements that
helps remove excess estrogen in the body.  From NAP checkout Fem Balance, Aromastat and
Hepatiguard.  I have taken all three with good results.

Thank you.  I'm on a natural progesterone right now and my NP may put me on a very small dose of prescribed if I don't improve soon.  I'll check the other supps as well.  This month I only had a very very small period.  And breasts were sore a few days before that and increasingly so afterwards now into about 2-1/2 weeks of soreness. ouch!...

Quoted from Frances AB

I've just noticed this thread, interesting for me as I posted about this a few months ago when the information first appeared in the press. I used to have a grapefruit every morning for breakfast, am now 51, have been prone to breast pain in one breast on and off (not right now). There were various helpful replies but the bottom line for me was that, much as I really love grapefruit, the uncertainty completely spoiled my enjoyment so I sadly gave them up. Incidentally, re breast pain, I don't think that stopping grapefruit necessarily made a difference but that quite possibly, an Omega-3 capsule three times possibly has.

I'm reading through this thread and it's scaring me. I eat a whole organic grapefruit every other day, so about 4 whole grapefruits a week (unsweetened)! That puts me well within the 30% who are at increased risk of developing breast cancer, according to the study. Except that I'm not post-menopausal, so does it really? I have no soreness in my breasts or any other negative effect of eating grapefruit, but the uncertainty might very well spoil my enjoyment now too.

Here's another article that might help to make a decision whether to keep eating it or not...

More Study of Grapefruit Needed

Seems like the study still left a lot of unanswered questions, including the effects of grapefruit juice vs. the whole fruit.

And what about grapefruit for men? My hub eats as much of it as I do.

a grapefruit a day, keeps the doctor away!
at least for me!
I have one whole GF every PM, it s my dessert for the day, besides being a diamond in my GT2 guidelines.

I did follow the menopause HS book for a while, as a preventative measure, when I hit 50, it helped balance out my hormones together with fembalance.

I believe that helped kick meno right in the butt!!!

I'm a huge fan of Estraphase by NAP.  From the NAP catalog:

Estraphase is a unique blend of three synergistic ingredients: Calcium combined with Glucaric acid to form calcium D-glucarate, and the botanical Phyllanthus.

Glucaric acid is found in small amounts in our bodies and in fruits and vegetables.  Calcium D-glucarate is a form of glucaric acid, which is utilized in the body to enhance the process by which the body rids itself of potentially dangerous environmental pollutants, including foreign organic compounds, fat-soluable toxins and excess steroid hormones such as estrogen.

yes, I believe the new GT sups contain GA, too.

Quoted from Lola

a grapefruit a day, keeps the doctor away!
at least for me!
I have one whole GF every PM, it s my dessert for the day, besides being a diamond in my GT2 guidelines.

I did follow the menopause HS book for a while, as a preventative measure, when I hit 50, it helped balance out my hormones together with fembalance.

I believe that helped kick meno right in the butt!!!

Awesome, Lola, and thanks! This is enough to get me right back on the grapefruit wagon. Think I'll go and have one now!

Interesting to note that the ones on this thread that are experiencing "soreness" from grapefruit are secretors. I wonder how much that has to do with it?

Quoted from karen

I'm a huge fan of Estraphase by NAP.  From the NAP catalog:

Estraphase is a unique blend of three synergistic ingredients: Calcium combined with Glucaric acid to form calcium D-glucarate, and the botanical Phyllanthus.

Glucaric acid is found in small amounts in our bodies and in fruits and vegetables.  Calcium D-glucarate is a form of glucaric acid, which is utilized in the body to enhance the process by which the body rids itself of potentially dangerous environmental pollutants, including foreign organic compounds, fat-soluable toxins and excess steroid hormones such as estrogen.

This is great information too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6900482.stm
Here is another link with the same information.

  
  
   The GTD looks at my particular hereditary weaknesses (genes) and then turns down the volume on those genes that might cause disease.

Grapefruit does some very positive things for my GT. So I will stick with the GTD and my lovely grapefruit, that I eat while in season.

    Too much of a good thing is just too much.

Maybe Dr. C will comment on the study...I'd like to eat grapefruit and not have to worry.. If this thread were not in the Genotype forum, Dr. D might have commented on the study. Why was it started here?

Quoted from Mayflowers

Maybe Dr. C will comment on the study...I'd like to eat grapefruit and not have to worry.. If this thread were not in the Genotype forum, Dr. D might have commented on the study. Why was it started here?

me too.. i love them so much.  especially the juice!

I hope she does comment!

and if it is the chocolate, agave, ghee mixture that I am indulging in daily (one serving), that is causing my pain, then I will live with the breast pain!  By gosh...I am not giving that up!

I have one every day for breakfast  peeled then roughly chopped put in a bowl and eaten - nothing added - luscious - couldn't do without it! the pink ones are the best, white ones are more tart and the red ones can be a bit bitter - none of your canned stuff - I like the real thing!

Quoted from speedy

I have one every day for breakfast  peeled then roughly chopped put in a bowl and eaten - nothing added - luscious - couldn't do without it! the pink ones are the best, white ones are more tart and the red ones can be a bit bitter - none of your canned stuff - I like the real thing!

Ah fellow Hunter!  

I paid $2.39 for an organic Red the other day.  Too much!  Which brings me to a point I've been wanting to address:

They say that one can safely eat non-organics if they are things you need to peel... i.e. apples, grapefruit, sweet potatoes, etc., etc... BUT if the land they are grown on is being fed with chemicals and bad water, doesn't that go into the meat of the vegetable/fruit through the tree roots or seedling roots, and still have bad effects on us?

Maybe I should start a separate thread on this...

add this question to your list MF!

Interesting thread....I have premenstrual breast pain, unless I faithfully use progesterone cream
for 2 weeks before it comes.  But I am not always consistent.    I agree with Chloe that it can be
an estrogen dominance thing.  It's funny about grapefruit, it's got something called naringen, that
can interfere with certain medications also.  It's a bit too bitter for me, so I tend to avoid it.  
I will have it once in a blue moon, and when in the mood, it's very good.
There is another supplement I am wondering about here, chaste berry/vitex and maybe some form
of gla oil, like black currant seed, or whichever is correct for your type.  Sometimes they can help.

Quoted from Mayflowers

Maybe Dr. C will comment on the study...I'd like to eat grapefruit and not have to worry.. If this thread were not in the Genotype forum, Dr. D might have commented on the study. Why was it started here?

Lola...Can we please move this thread to a more general location so perhaps Dr. D will comment?

Teri, sorry if my post scared you, didn't mean to. I'll elaborate. When all the articles suddenly appeared in the press and on the news I just thought SH*T, another stupid health scare, this time about one of my favourite foods. I'm always sceptical of these research projects, we don't know many details about sample size, other factors etc. I carried on eating grapefruit for a while and then just realised that I wasn't enjoying them as before, so I made a purely personal decision, in line with my general thinking about food, that it's not good for the digestion to eat something feeling even vaguely worried about it, even if the worry isn't entirely evidence-based. I like to eat my food with enthusiasm. When I was pregnant with both of my children there were various food scares about pregnant women eating soft-cooked eggs, soft cheese, smoked salmon and liver. I didn't feel even vaguely anxious, continued to eat them all occasionally with great enjoyment (pre-BTD obviously!)and everything was fine. Just couldn't summon up that feeling over the grapefruit so decided to ditch them. But if you want to carry on enjoying them, then good for you.

Hey Mayflowers the thread was started here because I'm not a member of the GTD site and I just use the GTD Forum Thread to address GTD issues... which seems to be all the time now!

The studies are quite mixed. Women taking a minimum of 1/4 grapefruit daily has a 1.3 RR (see my latest blog for details) of greater incidence of breast cancer. However, limonene and other bioflavanoids in citrus are potent inhibitors of breast cancer as well.

Reading between the lines it would appear that your risk of having this effect from grapefruit is directly proportional to the level of other toxins (besides estrogens) in your body, particularly your digestive tract, such as polyamines.

Looks like there is a focus on grapefruit's effect on the liver, specifically CYP 450 3A4, which is involved in the metabolism of estrogens.  It's effects on the liver is also why patients are told not to eat it while taking certain medications.

However, as Dr. D. stated, there are other constituents found in grapefruit that have anti-cancer properties, and other factors play a role on an individual level. (Can't forget that individual component that we all bring to the table!)

Quoted from 12

Looks like there is a focus on grapefruit's effect on the liver, specifically CYP 450 3A4, which is involved in the metabolism of estrogens.  It's effects on the liver is also why patients are told not to eat it while taking certain medications.

However, as Dr. D. stated, there are other constituents found in grapefruit that have anti-cancer properties, and other factors play a role on an individual level. (Can't forget that individual component that we all bring to the table!)

Thank you Dr. D and Dr. C!

My  liver is a bit comprimised due to my hemochromotosis so my NP is continually informing me that I don't process things to well such as caffeine, etc., and that my system is very sensitive due to increased Iron in my blood at any given time depending on how often I get my blood let.  

So I'm still not sure how to take this all since I certainly ate (binged) on chocolate and caffeine in the past without much affect and now that my body is getting very balanced this breast pain pops up.  It could just be conincendental with heading into peri menopause more and more with each passing day.

I guess the rest is left for me to figure out!!

So I'm off caffeine except for my daily chocolate treat (all compliant); and a slight bit of green tea (pretty diluted); I do have Yerba which does not have caffeine; and I tried the Grapefruit juice this morning again.  I am upping my progesterone creme and we will just see how it goes.  

Thanks again!!!

Funky, why do you just have a little green tea? It is good for the polyamine problem. You can buy naturally decaffeinated green tea, but I thought it was low in caffeine anyway. I quit having any problems with my breasts when I started taking evening primrose oil years ago. If it hadn't been on my Warrior diet, I don't know what I would have done because of the magic in this oil!  Before that, it was an ongoing aggravation.

I don't think Hunters are supposed to have e.p. but there are other oils that would do the same thing, no doubt. I would certainly look into it. This would be something different from fish oil. I have taken that, too, for decades but the e.p. affects me in another way altogether. It also makes me feel wonderful.

if I were to take a sup or a herb, or had to follow a protocol, I d only look into following the protocols given by Dr D, and I wouldn t hesitate in following the advice given in the BT encyclopedia....always, even if I m fully into the GTD!

Quoted from Dr. D

The studies are quite mixed. Women taking a minimum of 1/4 grapefruit daily has a 1.3 RR (see my latest blog for details) of greater incidence of breast cancer. However, limonene and other bioflavanoids in citrus are potent inhibitors of breast cancer as well.

Reading between the lines it would appear that your risk of having this effect from grapefruit is directly proportional to the level of other toxins (besides estrogens) in your body, particularly your digestive tract, such as polyamines.

Thank you for answering Dr. D., and Dr. C.
So, how does one know if it's individually ok to eat grapefruit? How do we determine the level of our polymines?

Quoted from Lola

if I were to take a sup or a herb, or had to follow a protocol, I d only look into following the protocols given by Dr D, and I wouldn t hesitate in following the advice given in the BT encyclopedia....always, even if I m fully into the GTD!

It is funny, Lola, but I was only taking one supplement Dr. D. didn't recommend for Warriors in one way or another. That was licorice. I have been taking some of these supplements for a decade and others for over 40 years. I was so glad that the knowledge I had gained from the BTD and my own experience stood me in good stead during those years, and I didn't wind up doing more harm than good.

Quoted from 1323

I found this interesting because since going into Perimenopause, my poor breasts have been hurting so bad and

Don't smack me for saying this, but....you're not pregnant are you?  My husband's sister started going through menopause and was really, really tired and achy and went to her doctor.  Surprise, you're pregnant, she was told, much to her astonishment....she's over 40 with two teenage boys already.

That pooooooooor woman!   That would have killed me dead for sure!

yeah, but that lucky woman, too! (just the other side of the coin)

Now I'll make this issue even more confusing.  There was a study 2 years ago (I blogged about it) that said ruby read grapefruit was one of the best things you could eat for cholesterol.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-02/acs-rga020806.php

It seems every single wonder food there is has a dark side to it! Sort of like the high oxalate foods and the risk of kidney stones in some people. But we've survived this long eating loads of it, so my thinking is there is still a lot to learn about how all the components work together - which Dr. D. has certainly made a huge dent in! I would eat red grapefruit every day if I didn't hurt so bad.

Soy is one of those foods that has a dark side for some BT's.

Quoted from Ribbit

Don't smack me for saying this, but....you're not pregnant are you?  My husband's sister started going through menopause and was really, really tired and achy and went to her doctor.  Surprise, you're pregnant, she was told, much to her astonishment....she's over 40 with two teenage boys already.

I've thought about it.  But I did bleed very lightly for two days this month and my  husband is fixed.  Plus I'm 49.  So the chances are very low.

My tummy has been swollen for no reason what-so-ever and that's the main reason I thought maybe it was a remote possiblity.

Can you bleed when you are pregnant?

Quoted Text

Can you bleed when you are pregnant?

If that is what is going on with you at your age, I would think it would be a strong possibility! But I don't think this is your problem. On this diet, every now and then I swell up, too, but after a day or two I'm right back down again. How long has this been going on? Have you gained any weight?  

Quoted from 2330

If that is what is going on with you at your age, I would think it would be a strong possibility! But I don't think this is your problem. On this diet, every now and then I swell up, too, but after a day or two I'm right back down again. How long has this been going on? Have you gained any weight?  

When this all started 2-1/2-3 weeks ago, yes the scale was NOT budging and I was up 3-5 lbs on any given day.  Since I've dropped two of those lbs (as of 2 days ago), but haven't weighed since as I don't like the disappointment of it.  

If your husband is "fixed" you shouldn't be pregnant, but yes, you can bleed during pregnancy and it's not good if you do.  My recommendation is to simply go buy an at-home pregnancy test just to make sure.  I know ladies in their early 50s still having babies.  Is it really possible that your husband......well, I know the first few weeks after a "V" you should avoid each other because of the possibility, but after that isn't it pretty much a sure-fire thing that it's not going to happen?

Quoted from Ribbit

If your husband is "fixed" you shouldn't be pregnant, but yes, you can bleed during pregnancy and it's not good if you do.  My recommendation is to simply go buy an at-home pregnancy test just to make sure.  I know ladies in their early 50s still having babies.  Is it really possible that your husband......well, I know the first few weeks after a "V" you should avoid each other because of the possibility, but after that isn't it pretty much a sure-fire thing that it's not going to happen?

Well, my breasts finally stopped being sore!  I had upped the Pro-Gest a bit and everything I read said to give it some time... so it was 3 weeks of soreness... Plus I stopped green tea.  So I'm thinking..... hormones and green tea were the culprits!

thanks God I'm not pregnant!  

AND I started grapefruit juice again several days ago... so I know it's NOT that!

I love to eat grapefruit and drink the juice.

In relation to eostrogen and breast soreness does this include breast increase?
or does it mean all over swelling?
Also does anyone experience weightloss with grapefruit?

I have only just started drinking it again and I had diarrhea the other day after drinking it for a day - has anyone experienced this?

I prefer eating a whole grapefruit instead of having fresh squeezed juice......it is too sweet for me, and lacks the fiber I get from the whole fruit.

Quoted Text

after drinking it for a day

that must have been a LOT of juice!!

Quoted from angelighte

I have only just started drinking it again and I had diarrhea the other day after drinking it for a day - has anyone experienced this?

I get the same reaction from eating the whole fruit. I stopped eating it because of what Dr. D posted on the other page of this thread. I'll have to talk to him about that...