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yvonneb
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here is a thought:

If one has not eaten a food at all because of following the BTD (obviously for longer than 3 months) and this food now turns out to be a black dot, surely one does not have to wait the 3-6 months and can eat this particular food straight away?

It would mean a bigger choice of foods for everyone!

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kipperkid
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It sounds a v. tempting theory, but I wonder whether the aim is that you are clear of ALL black dots for 3-6 months before reintroducing them?  I hope you are right, would certainly open up a few more possibilities......


  • Toyed with BTD from 2006
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Cheryl_O_Blogger
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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I'd like to believe this would be the intent, but I'd guess it's 3-6 months with the whole mix of foods, especially emphasizing the new superfood list, then add in some black dots.  For me more of the black dot foods are items I could have before and are now restricted.


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NewHampshireGirl
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I like your way of thinking, Yvonne.
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Mercedes
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My guess would be no.

The fact is most of us have been eating a combination of foods that negatively influence how our genes behave. I think the point is to spend time with as little negative food as possible. So perhaps having one or two black dot avoids will work, but treating them all as neutral immed seems counter intuitive to me.

And the thing to remember is those black dots are like infrequent neutrals- they aren't to be staples in your diet, but more like the 1-2 times a week. Letting them all in immediately is likely to further dependence on them, and potentially lead to a diet of most black dot avoids, which would defeat the purpose of following the diet.
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Melissa_J
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree with Mercedes, in order to turn on all the good genes and turn off all the bad ones, I think the black dot avoids should all be avoided for a time.  After that time, they are infrequent, if at all.

I don't always live by that thinking, and did have a small amount of a black dot over the weekend (restaurant and family events), and if I have to go hungry, eat a toxin, or eat a black dot toxin, I usually choose the black dot.  I do try not to do that at all, but life happens.  I am doing much better with compliance on GTD than I was on BTD O-non, but not quite perfect.  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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MyraBee
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Melissa_J
I am doing much better with compliance on GTD than I was on BTD O-non, but not quite perfect.  


Me, too on the compliance level with GTD.  I really wonder why this is?  Especially for me, an O-Nonnie Hunter, the diets are not that different.  


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Melissa_J
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes, I just feel more satisfied.

Having the holidays over with is helpful, as well, but I think there's more to it than that.

Even when I do cheat, I want to cheat by having more portions of a superfood, rather than craving an avoid/toxin.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Mercedes
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Boo on you guys who find this easy!! I had to cave and have a banana yesterday... before BTD I didn't even like bananas! Yesterday I would have paid 50$ to enjoy that banana... it was sooooooooooo delicious...
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Lisalea
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Mercedes

And the thing to remember is those black dots are like infrequent neutrals- they aren't to be staples in your diet, but more like the 1-2 times a week.

I was wondering where u read this and if I perhaps missed it in the GTD diet book  
Thanks Mercedes  


The older I get, the more wide-eyed I become.  
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geminisue
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 2:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't have my book here right know, but I think it is near the bottom of the page before the Hunter Food List starts,
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Lloyd
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 3:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lisalea

I was wondering where u read this and if I perhaps missed it in the GTD diet book  
Thanks Mercedes  


The book says they can be reintroduced in moderate amounts. We all have different interpretations of what that means.  
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Lisalea
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 3:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Ee Dan
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Quoted from Lloyd


The book says they can be reintroduced in moderate amounts. We all have different interpretations of what that means.  

That's for sure  




The older I get, the more wide-eyed I become.  
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think all of the lists are meant as guidelines, rather than as hard-and-fast rules.  The closer one adheres to the guidelines, the more benefits one is likely to receive.

I don't recall whether this was in the book, or in one of Dr. D's blogs before the book came out, but he said that this diet is more about what you DO eat than about what you DON'T eat.

On the BTD, there are relatively few Beneficials, lots of Neutrals, and relatively few Avoids, so we mostly concentrated on avoiding our Avoids -- at least that's what I did.  On the GTD, there are a whole slew of Superfoods, so it's not all that difficult to eat mostly Superfoods.

If I have an occasional craving for a Toxin, I don't think it'll kill me to have a little (though I do generally manage to distract myself with something equally yummy from the Superfoods column).  And if I'm eating in a restaurant where they put heaven-knows-what into the food, I'll just do the best I can.


Carol

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Mercedes
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'll admit, I can't find it in the book. I think someone here posted that neutrals are supposed to be 2-5 times a week. If neutrals are to be 2-5 times a week, black dots should be a fair bit less.

They are put on the list as toxins, not neutrals, so they can't very well become "neutral" the same as other neutrals. Moreover, the book clearly states if you wind up with some probs after following the GTD for a while, (such as weight gain) then cut back on those black dot avoids. Which, would logically mean that unlike real neutrals that just act like food, these foods do have an effect, and a negative one, though perhaps only mildly.

None the less, if things are to be "reintroduced in modest amounts" (not moderate, but modest, which I think is less than moderate, even though the dictionary often uses moderate to define modest...), I wouldn't consider something I have 5 days a week to be modest. At five days a week, that's definitely a staple.

And of course, I'd assume the amount matters. One thing to have a teaspoon of a black dot sweetener or condiment, vs. a whole plate of black dot pasta.

Everyone's allowed to cheat. I'm on the record as not yet willing to give up my mayo. However, I'm at least fully aware and conscious that it's not following the diet. But it seems some of us (not pointing fingers, just making an observation) are trying to rationalise things that are "cheating" or not following the diet the way Dr. D likely intended.

(EG: My money is on the lack of "cream" being listed as an avoid is a typo, and cream isn't neutral. Oh how I wish it was, but I don't think so- so I'm not going hog wild on delightfully divine whipped cream...)
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Lloyd
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mercedes


(EG: My money is on the lack of "cream" being listed as an avoid is a typo, and cream isn't neutral. Oh how I wish it was, but I don't think so- so I'm not going hog wild on delightfully divine whipped cream...)


Cream has never been a tested item in BTD and there is no reason to think it was a tested item in GTD. Tested options include half n' half, cream cheese and butter as closest relatives. They each have advantages and disadvantages in the comparison.
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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OK, I found the "what you eat, not what you avoid" quote.  It's on pages 181-2.  In the same section, Dr. D also says, "... when you start your GenoType Diet, begin by emphasizing what your GenoType best thrives upon, then slowly move some of the nonrecommended food out of the pantry and refrigerator."

I was also trying to find the "2 to 5 times per week" bit that Mercedes mentioned, but don't offhand see it.  I'm sure she's right about that, though.  And I agree, if Neutrals are to be eaten only 2 to 5 times per week, then surely black-dot Toxins are to be eaten less often than that (after the waiting period) -- I was thinking 1 or 2 times per week, like Mercedes.


Carol

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Squirrel
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yes the paragraph is on the bottom of the intro page of each of the Genotypes' diets. The wording is the same for each. The black dot foods need only be avoided for a short time to regain your balance, after 3-6 months you can reintroduce them in modest amounts unless you're fighting an illness or the weight's going back on.

Carol - A and O BTDs overlapped quite well. But Gatherer and Teacher ones don't. Superfoods are not as abundant for everyone, certainly not in Asia. Try telling an Asian Gatherer to cut out rice for 3-6 months!!

I wish it were different.


Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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Spring
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Okay, here is one quote: "If a food is not listed, it is essentially neutral, meaning that the nutrients in it will benefit you but won't specifically help you restore balance to your genes or health to your cells.  Feel free to eat these foods---but don't neglect the foods I recommend."
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Squirrel -- You're obviously working under a couple of handicaps, with you and your husband being two different GenoTypes, plus trying to follow a diet designed by an American doctor when you live in Asia.

Short of moving elsewhere, you're pretty well stuck with the second handicap, so I agree with what some posters were saying on your other thread, that it's easier to just fix different foods when necessary.  That is, it's more work, but at least it's doable.

One other thing you might do is compile a list of foods that are mentioned on *other* GenoType's food lists, but *not* mentioned on yours (e.g., Jackfruit).  These are presumably Neutrals, and could extend your options considerably.

I have posted threads with Neutral fruits and vegetables for Teachers, and plan to post other Teacher Neutrals as well.  So you could concentrate on figuring out what the Gatherer Neutrals are, and use my Teacher lists.


Carol

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Squirrel
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh wow I never thought of the neutral listings from other types!
Where's my brain??!! (smacks forehead and probably kills a few more precious brain cells)
Thank you - I will!

We'll be moving back to the UK in the autumn so yes, things will be different there. I'll definitely be reassessing my options when we get back.

It's a shame though, because we wanted to do this for fertility reasons, and we can only get treatment here. Once we get home for good, it's bye-bye baby and probably relaxing the diet to 70%+ compliance anyway. We've been so super-careful so far but it hasn't got us anywhere yet (sigh).

Anyway! Onwards and upwards. Off to check the lists!  


Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Finally found the 2 to 5 times per week quote(s) -- it's not in the GenoType Diets chapter where I was looking last night, it's in Chapter Seven ("Meet the GenoTypes"), at the end of each GenoType's section (e.g., for Teachers, it's on page 146):

Quoted Text
Unlisted foods are foods that don't appear to do much good or bad.  They are essentially neutral, and can be used judiciously (2-5 times weekly).  The nutrients in them will benefit you, but they won't specifically help you restore balance to your genes or health to your cells.


There you go, Mercedes -- we weren't imagining things!


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor
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kipperkid
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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OK, being thick here............

Does that mean any individual neutral food can be used 2-5 times weekly, or that 2-5 portions of neutral food in total are allowed?


  • Toyed with BTD from 2006
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kipperkid  -  Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:28pm
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Carol the Dabbler
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
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I'm thinking it means no more than 2-5 times per week for *each* Neutral food.  (Of course, you don't *have* to eat any Neutrals at all.)  The basic idea seems to be, you can eat them, just don't use them as a staple.  If, say, Asian pears are a Neutral for you, don't go eating them every day if you could be eating some Superfood fruits instead.  I would also think it's better to eat a variety of foods, Superfoods when possible, than to concentrate on just a few foods.






Carol

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kate4975
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 7:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from kipperkid
OK, being thick here............

Does that mean any individual neutral food can be used 2-5 times weekly, or that 2-5 portions of neutral food in total are allowed?


I would think 2-5 portions from that category (e.g. 2-5 portions of neutral fruits, 2-5 portions of neutral poultry, etc.). Of course, if your superfood portions are smaller for that category in general, I would go with the lower neutral portion as well.


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