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Oats and gluten contamination  This thread currently has 1,413 views. Print Print Thread
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 3:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hey, per a conversation offshoot in the "Gatherers Unite" thread, I got to having a big old think about the whole oats and gluten contamination issue.  As discussed in that thread, oats themselves do not contain gluten.  However, oats are usually processed and stored in silos that facilitate cross-contamination with the gluten from other grains such as our old nemesis, WHEAT.  Thus, your basic person with celiac disease or any sort of gluten intolerance will often react to oats.

However, you can now buy oats that are labeled "gluten free", and have been processed away from wheat, etc.  I checked this out and the oatmeal at my HFS labeled gluten free is a whooping eleven dollars and change for a small-ish package!!!!  For that price, I'll buy a few steaks, thank you!  If you cut me, I still bleed O, baby!  Lovely as oats are, I will choose steak over eleven-dollar oats any day!

So, I got to thinking:  what if you simply washed the gluten off the oats?  But no, that wouldn't work, as oats soak up water so fast, the minute you tried to rinse them under running water, they would start to absorb it and become oatmeal, gluten still intact.

So, this O nonnie Gatherer has decided, albiet very reluctantly, to give up oatmeal (again!) until I can afford the gluten-free kind.  It simply isn't worth "toxing" with the wheat gluten, when I'm working so hard to "detox" via the Gatherer diet.  Because if the gluten gets on there, which is bad enough, what's to stop a lectin or three from sneaking aboard?

No more oatmeal or other oat products for this Gatherer unless and until I can afford the kind labeled "gluten-free".  Fabulous and convenient as oatmeal is, it isn't worth it.



(Why does wheat have to insert itself into and/or onto EVERYTHING?)


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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TJ
Monday, January 21, 2008, 4:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe you could buy whole, unrolled oat berries and rinse them off.  They wouldn't absorb water as quickly if they haven't been rolled, correct?  Then you could roll them yourself....???
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Kristin
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've often wondered... just how much gluten contamination occurs in oats processed where wheat is milled and also just how much gluten it takes to have a negative reaction to it? It probably varies with each individual. I know with the peanut allergy it is actually the mold spores that is the culprit and it takes very little to cause a reaction.

Just curious....


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gulfcoastguy
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I imagine that the very small amount of glutein contamination is neglible unless you are celiac. How do you know the quinia or millet is not cross contaminated? Or rice for that matter? Just keep your oat intake low and see if you get the wheat cravings.
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Chloe
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Peppermint Twist
Hey, per a conversation offshoot in the "Gatherers Unite" thread, I got to having a big old think about the whole oats and gluten contamination issue.  As discussed in that thread, oats themselves do not contain gluten.  However, oats are usually processed and stored in silos that facilitate cross-contamination with the gluten from other grains such as our old nemesis, WHEAT.  Thus, your basic person with celiac disease or any sort of gluten intolerance will often react to oats.

However, you can now buy oats that are labeled "gluten free", and have been processed away from wheat, etc.  I checked this out and the oatmeal at my HFS labeled gluten free is a whooping eleven dollars and change for a small-ish package!!!!  For that price, I'll buy a few steaks, thank you!  If you cut me, I still bleed O, baby!  Lovely as oats are, I will choose steak over eleven-dollar oats any day!

So, I got to thinking:  what if you simply washed the gluten off the oats?  But no, that wouldn't work, as oats soak up water so fast, the minute you tried to rinse them under running water, they would start to absorb it and become oatmeal, gluten still intact.

So, this O nonnie Gatherer has decided, albiet very reluctantly, to give up oatmeal (again!) until I can afford the gluten-free kind.  It simply isn't worth "toxing" with the wheat gluten, when I'm working so hard to "detox" via the Gatherer diet.  Because if the gluten gets on there, which is bad enough, what's to stop a lectin or three from sneaking aboard?

No more oatmeal or other oat products for this Gatherer unless and until I can afford the kind labeled "gluten-free".  Fabulous and convenient as oatmeal is, it isn't worth it.



(Why does wheat have to insert itself into and/or onto EVERYTHING?)


Bob's Red Mill makes a gluten free oat.



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from gulfcoastguy
I imagine that the very small amount of glutein contamination is neglible unless you are celiac. How do you know the quinia or millet is not cross contaminated?

Well, between this poser and the one about the cloned bull jumping the fence and mating with the regular-issue bull, you are just full of cheery thoughts today, aren't you, gcg?!



Good point.  I might as well eat oatmeal if I am going to continue to have millet, quinoa, and/or any other grain, huh?  Yet how come we never hear about cross-contamination of these other grains?  ...Then again, I never heard of cross-contamination of oats until Friday.

Man.

Wheat:  It's everywhere.  Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Meanwhile...I will look into cross contamination of other grains.  Maybe because of how rare quinoa still is, it isn't usually grown around wheat or processed/stored the same way?  I just made that up, mind you, but maybe it isn't usually around wheat.  Millet, though...jeepers.  Seems like it would be mixing and mingling with wheat as much as oats are/do.

Man alive!  Stop posting all these excellent, yet terrifying, points today, gcg!





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gulfcoastguy
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Umm, I guess if the bionic bull wanted to mate with the regular bull they wouldn't let him in the army?
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
Bob's Red Mill makes a gluten free oat.

Yeah, and it's eleven bucks per bag, duuuuude.  That's a dealbreaker.  I mean, for OATS?  No, I prefer to get 3.43 gallons of gasoline for that eleven dollars.





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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Umm, I guess if the bionic bull wanted to mate with the regular bull they wouldn't let him in the army?

  Ooops.  I meant regular-issue COW.  Cow, bull, whatever.  Let's not split hairs.  The point is, twist might have to revert to vegetarianism, so get your storm cellars prepped and ready now.  It could get ugly.


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Chloe
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Peppermint Twist

Yeah, and it's eleven bucks per bag, duuuuude.  That's a dealbreaker.  I mean, for OATS?  No, I prefer to get 3.43 gallons of gasoline for that eleven dollars.





...mind boggling price.  I never saw the price sticker on the package.... I only saw that my local HFS carried it in their gluten-free section. I'd rather put gas in my car too!



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Kristin
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Umm, I guess if the bionic bull wanted to mate with the regular bull they wouldn't let him in the army?



Well..... as long as they comply with the "don't ask/don't tell" policy....



The true meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe
...mind boggling price.  I never saw the price sticker on the package.... I only saw that my local HFS carried it in their gluten-free section. I'd rather put gas in my car too!

Word up!



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Chloe
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Carol the Dabbler
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It's my understanding that the gluten contamination of oats amounts to at most a couple hundred parts per billion, which is presumably not a worry for anyone who is not gluten sensitive.

But -- for those who are gluten sensitive -- this is not necessarily the sort of contamination that can be washed off.  Oats are typically planted, harvested, and processed using equipment that is also used for wheat and other small grains.  If a few grains of wheat have gotten stuck in the machinery, they can shake loose later when oats are being planted, harvested, or processed -- so there can be actual grains of wheat in the oats.  With oat groats, you might be able to spot the difference and pick out the wheat grains.  But with any form of processed (even rolled) oats, this would be difficult or impossible.

Of course, there can also be wheat "dust" contaminating oats, in which case I think Edna had it right.


Carol

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Carol the Dabbler
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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P.S.  Wheat contamination can also occur with any other small grain -- barley, Kamut, rye, spelt, etc. -- but again, this is presumably not enough to be a problem.  (Of course, anyone who is gluten-sensitive should not be eating these grains anyhow.)

And it's not just grains.  I've seen what appeared to be occasional kidney beans in a can of pintos.  Any compliant food that can be planted, harvested, and/or processed using equipment that's also used for avoids MIGHT be contaminated.

But you could drive yourself crazy worrying about things like that, and it's not likely to be a major issue except where sensitivies or allergies are concerned.


Carol

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Peppermint Twist
Monday, January 21, 2008, 6:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chloe

You know what?  I just saw that because I was looking on line to show y'all the price of 11.00+ per bag, and I saw that instead.  I think my HFS has yet another variety of Bob's Red Mill gluten-free oats, because it would be highly unusual for them to sell any product at such a huge mark-up.  So then, I went to see if their new site is up, as they used to be owned by pups who owned another HFS in the area, but then a few years back, they "broke up" and are now separately owned, thus the website that used to be for both stores is now just for the other store.  But I just noticed now that my HFS finally has its own site (complete with COUPONS--weeeeeeee, just got one for Spectrum:  momma needs a new bottle of olive oil!), which I'm all a'twitter about!  That one is definitely getting added to my iGoogle homepage list of bookmarks!

Anyway...wanted to see if they listed their Bob's Red Mill products and prices, but they only list one item of BRM (edited to add:  No!  I found out how to list a lot more...but not the one I'm looking for!  Oh well.).  They have, at least, five types of BRM oats, that is what is confusing.  There is the "old-fashioned" variety, the organic, the steel-cut, the gluten-free...and now I'm thinking there is some sort of premium gluten-free or something...but rest assured I shall solve the mystery by eyeballing the variety that was eleven bucks and reporting back here at some point.

Meanwhile:  my HFS has a site now, oh happy day!  Coupons all around!!!  I was never a coupon person, and I still wouldn't be if I hadn't discovered this site, because most coupons from the paper or wherever are never for anything I'd buy in this lifetime.  They are always for things like Nestle formula, Cool Whip, Hot Pockets, etc., ya know?  But my own HFS is bound to have at least ONE coupon among the featured ones that I would actually give a hoot about!  Oh joy, oh rapture!  I shall save two whole bucks on my next bottle of olive oil!!!!!

It takes so little to make my day!

My HFS' new site--weeee:  http://www.rollinoats.com/reta.....8K8RKLUEPXFW532WBWA9



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Melissa_J
Monday, January 21, 2008, 10:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't worry about other grains, quinoa, millet, etc. they are usually produced more exclusively from wheat than oats, and easier to distinguish with the naked eye.  Wheat and oats are harder to tell apart, if you have the whole grains you may be able to pick out the wheats in there, but I'm not sure I could.  They're often grown in rotation in the same fields.  If I weren't gluten sensitive, I probably wouldn't worry about it, I'd just pick the better brands (better than Quaker, which I know got me sick once long ago).

So I buy GF oats, eat them in very modest amounts, and don't worry about the other grains.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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TJ
Monday, January 21, 2008, 10:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I thought that oats had a gluten of their own, but that it's a very different kind of gluten than the stuff in wheat and spelt.  So this is incorrect, I gather from this discussion?
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Brighid45
Monday, January 21, 2008, 11:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm going to order some oats from the glutenfreeoats site later this week, and will report results here. I'm also ordering some frozen currants and hope to make some oat flour currant muffins.


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Chloe
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 12:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I found this on a website called allergy solutions.


Do Oats Contain Gluten?


Oats do not have gluten in them, but they may have gluten on them. If that sounds confusing then please let me explain.

For years oats have been mistakenly considered to contain gluten. Many people with a gluten allergy discovered that eating oats could result in the same symptoms known to be caused by eating wheat, barley or rye. However, recent research has shed some light on this problem and given everyone with a gluten allergy a reason to rejoice.

Oats do not contain gluten. However, because oats are a major agricultural product they are handled by the same mills, processing plants, and grain elevators that handle wheat, barley and rye. This results in enough contamination of the oats that they can readily trigger a gluten allergy when ingested.

The good news is that there are companies now providing non-contaminated oats. These can often be found in your local health food store or online at one of the many gluten free food retailers.

Bring on the oatmeal cookies!



"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Melissa_J
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 1:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There's gluten, then there's Gluten.  Even corn and some types of rice have something in them referred to as gluten, but it is not the gluten that celiacs react to, it just means something that imparts it with some stickiness.  Most celiacs do not react to pure oats, but some do.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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northstar
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 3:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have been wondering about oats. I happen to love oatmeal and
cook it with soya milk. But I was told to go on a detox and stay away from gluten free products, including oats. I was
surprised because I thought they were gluten free. The explanation of oats being mixed up with wheat and getting
the gluten makes sense. I love oatmeal but cringe of trying to
buy gluten free oats here in Tokyo. If it is expensive there,
the prices must be outrageous here.



Out & About in Tokyo...
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Squirrel
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 4:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I had oatcakes and almond butter for lunch yesterday.

Oh boy!

Within a few minutes my insides (transverse colon) cramped up  - for 2 hours. Big, big oouuuucccchhhh. And I'm still sore today.

The almond butter I've been eating for months, but the oatcakes are from the new Gatherer diet. They contain palm oil which has been neutral but is now an avoid, so I was kind of eating them up so I could start the GTD afresh. So my money's on the oats, although it could have been the combo of course. Unless my organic oats were contaminated with wheat.

Why is life so complicated...?!!!!  


Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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Vicki
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 5:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Squirrel, are you able to get "gluten free" steel cut oats?  I found Bob's Red Mill brand in my local store.  I like to soak them overnight, just cooking per the bag instructions doesn't seem to process them enough for me.  
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Squirrel
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We have a limited and ever-changing Bob's Red Mills selection in the second-mortgage section of our supermarket. The amaranth flour is about US$7.20 for 500g, in a country where everything costs about one third of the price everywhere else charges.

I don't remember seeing it there, but I'll look again. Thanks!


Note to self: I am me, and also an O-nonnie - I'm allowed not to fit the mould.
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