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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  glycation
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glycation  This thread currently has 1,835 views. Print Print Thread
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JohnW
Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am interested in using BTD compliant fruit juice as a base for some of my protein shakes.Would this combination create a glycation problem once consumed?
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Dr. D
Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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If you GenoTyped as a Gatherer, perhaps.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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jayneeo
Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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what the heck is a glycation problem???? I am a gatherer...so what 's the deal? I put fruit juice in my protein shakes....but tell me why not and I won't.
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Dr. D
Sunday, December 30, 2007, 7:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Read the book, pages 26-27.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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jayneeo
Sunday, December 30, 2007, 8:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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wow....thanks, Dr. D.!
Wow, just read it.....so it would seem that we should keep proteins separate from fruits? maybe. Even better, don't caraamelize things (which really is yummy...)
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JohnW
Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I still can't figure out my genotype.The calculator rates me as a Gatherer because I am a B+,non-sec,legs longer than torso,upper leg longer than lower,and index fingers longer than ring fingers.....But,until the past 3-4 years,I have been an ecto-mesomorph and my fingers just touch around my wrists(I am 63 yrs old and am starting to put on excess fat).
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Dr. Natalie Colicci
Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JohnW
I still can't figure out my genotype.The calculator rates me as a Gatherer because I am a B+,non-sec,legs longer than torso,upper leg longer than lower,and index fingers longer than ring fingers.....But,until the past 3-4 years,I have been an ecto-mesomorph and my fingers just touch around my wrists(I am 63 yrs old and am starting to put on excess fat).


Hi John,

Sounds like a Gatherer to me.  Don't get hung up on what you think a particular genotype must look like.  Each genotype has people of all shapes and sizes...
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jayneeo
wow....thanks, Dr. D.!
Wow, just read it.....so it would seem that we should keep proteins separate from fruits? maybe. Even better, don't caraamelize things (which really is yummy...)


Oh come on now.. help!  I like to have a piece of fruit after my meals and now is that off limits since I have protein at virtually every meal?  Please say it isn't so!??????
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jayneeo
Monday, December 31, 2007, 1:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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well, funkymuse, it sounds like it is so, since gatherers don't clear glycation well....back in the day (and still now) a lot of folks did food combining, in which they didn't eat carb with protein, now that was hard. Eating fruit an hour or so away from food is probably good....
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 2:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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well darn.  
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Dr. D
Monday, December 31, 2007, 11:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Quoted from 12


Hi John,

Sounds like a Gatherer to me.  Don't get hung up on what you think a particular genotype must look like.  Each genotype has people of all shapes and sizes...


Yup.

BTW, the low fruit is for the first stage, since a high fructose diet increases glycation. After the first phase this eases somewhat.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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JohnW
Monday, December 31, 2007, 12:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for the help.I will give the Gatherer diet a try.Guess I will have to find a good home for my formally super beneficial BTD kefir and containers of whey protein powder.
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 3:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dr. D


Yup.

BTW, the low fruit is for the first stage, since a high fructose diet increases glycation. After the first phase this eases somewhat.


Thanks Dr. D.  Last night I ate my beef stew and then and hour or so later, had my basmati rice with a pear before bed.  So it's doable but weird!    All changes are weird at first.


Quoted from JohnW
Thanks for the help.I will give the Gatherer diet a try.Guess I will have to find a good home for my formally super beneficial BTD kefir and containers of whey protein powder.


Hey why can't you have Whey Protein Powder?  I see it on the list a a Superbeneficial for Gatherers?
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JohnW
Monday, December 31, 2007, 4:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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See page 209.It is one of the foodstuff that can be reintroduced for ocassional use after a period of time.
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Don
Monday, December 31, 2007, 6:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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jayneeo
Monday, December 31, 2007, 6:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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thank you so much for that clarification, Don.
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Don
I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.


Well tell that to the folks making up the daily food lists on the  GTD site.  Todays morning breakfast for Gatherers was Cottage cheese with Pineapple and Papaya and the morning snack is Ricotta Cheese with Pineapple.

I don't think I'm ever going to heal because there is not a huge possibility I can give up fruit.  
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Lola
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Celery Sticks with Almond Butter is the snack!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Sorry Lola... my diet list says Pineapple with Ricotta Cheese.

there's nothing anywhere for today with celery and almond butter.
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Don
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Interesting, my Gatherer meal plan shows pumpkin seeds for a morning snack and celery and almond butter for the afternoon snack.

Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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funkymuse
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Maybe the menus are set up for starting with Day one on the day you joined... so Don you joined before me, so you are ahead of me on the menus... understand?  I'm still back at the day one menu today since I just joined last night.
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jayneeo
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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I love those menus!! Now, we don't get many fruits but Pineapple is so divine!
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Don
Monday, December 31, 2007, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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That is a possibility.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Lola
Monday, December 31, 2007, 11:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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individuality at its best!!
it is according to your personal data, I guess.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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funkymuse
Tuesday, January 1, 2008, 2:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Lola
individuality at its best!!
it is according to your personal data, I guess.


I BET it's based on how many calories you chose to eat!

I chose the bigger amount because the lower amount was ABSURD!  Whoever is putting those together is definitely from the old school of dieting starvation!  1200 calories at the low end is not healthy physically and certainly NOT mentally in the long run.

Just an opinion from FAR TOO MANY YEARS of useless low calorie dieting.    
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accidental_chef
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Don
Interesting, my Gatherer meal plan shows pumpkin seeds for a morning snack and celery and almond butter for the afternoon snack.

Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.


It's a huge departure from the protein+veggies breakfast, isnt it? How does it feel...?


BTD compliance means: Definition of "Compliance"

[color=blue]Pranic Healer with http://www.pranichealing.sg/

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Lloyd
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Even the Hunter plans have vegetarian meals and light breakfasts. I'm going to be using my license to be an Individual for awhile, at least until I'm adapted to other changes and see what's what.  
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italybound
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Don
Breakfast is Puffed Millet with Rice Bran, Rice Milk, Dried Apricots, and Walnuts.


Oh please, please, please, I want to be a Gatherer. I am tired of eating dinner at every meal.    I want some breakfast food too!!!     STILL no book. 2 days late now. If it's not here tomorrow, I'll be making some phone calls. Well maybe Friday  , tomorrow I'm tied up.



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funkymuse
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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So far, I'm having a hard time with the light breakfasts.  I'm trying but I have to eat 2 hours later and then again 2 hours later.  I'm much better with a nice big breakfast that holds me steady.

Today I did the light breakfast and man low blood sugar and hunger 2 hours later about put me down.  
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Don
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 4:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from accidental_chef
It's a huge departure from the protein+veggies breakfast, isnt it? How does it feel...?

I don't plan on following the GTD site meal plan. I never followed any of the BTD meal plans either.

I have been eating lamb and cooked greens for breakfast for about 2 years. Before that it was beef or bison for a couple of years. Lamb is a Gatherer diamond superfood (S) so I will probably continue with that most days. When I run out of lamb I might have eggs for a day.

I will try to switch to eating more turnip greens (S) instead of my usual collard greens (N), although I still plan to eat plenty of collard greens.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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jayneeo
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I've made up some gatherer breakfasts lately...may not be bennie, but they work for me. one third cup of rolled oats cooked up in water with currants and cinnamon, flaxseed and agave and bit of butter and salt.....that is so satisfying, then I have a turkey sausage  or a scrambled egg. Maybe I don't need the protein like I think I do....(you know the food combining thing)
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OSuzanna
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1323


Well tell that to the folks making up the daily food lists on the  GTD site.  Todays morning breakfast for Gatherers was Cottage cheese with Pineapple and Papaya and the morning snack is Ricotta Cheese with Pineapple.

I don't think I'm ever going to heal because there is not a huge possibility I can give up fruit.  


From personal experience w/BTD, one can be amazed at what one can give up readily after thinking that impossible.


OSuzanna
A Before Picture , In the Process of Becoming an After Picture
FOOD for THOUGHT, Super Beneficial 4 All Blood Types!
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Melissa_J
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 5:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I agree, 1200 calories should not be an option to gatherers, it would shut my metabolism right down.

That would be cool if it gave us all the same menus at the same time, we could compare notes and substitutions   It probably randomizes it.  I'm surprised at how loaded with carbs the breakfasts are, of course I've always put off the carbs until later in the day.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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JohnW
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 12:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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With the fruit and veg. sources this seems to be a low carb diet to me.I realize foods like millet and oats up the carb load but generally you subtract the fiber from the carbs and it comes out more moderate than you might think.My carbs have been quite low the past few days and my body hasn't noticed.
Being a mesomorph,and a power lifter I feel the need for more protein,so I add a scoop of egg white protein powder to each feeding...I am,however,missing my whey protein powder like a lost lover.
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funkymuse
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 2:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I cannot even find turnip greens in my store and the collard greens are not organic!  So I'm still downing the Swiss Chard and enjoying it.

But I can find spinich which I like best raw or added to soups to disguise the flavor.  Being a super taster is not a good thing when it comes to greens!!!
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Don
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from 1323
I cannot even find turnip greens in my store and the collard greens are not organic!  So I'm still downing the Swiss Chard and enjoying it.

But I can find spinich which I like best raw or added to soups to disguise the flavor.  Being a super taster is not a good thing when it comes to greens!!!

Unfortunately, I can only find organic bundles of spinach every once in a while at the HFS and I don't buy non-organic spinach since it is 11th on EWG's pesticides food list.

I may have to start buying the more expensive washed and bagged organic spinach.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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funkymuse
Thursday, January 3, 2008, 3:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Don



I may have to start buying the more expensive washed and bagged organic spinach.



Yes I've had to buy that for along time now.  It's very pricey.  But I justify it because I used to spend anywhere from $10 to $15 on junk food when I would binge.  
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TypeOSecretor
Friday, January 4, 2008, 2:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Don
I don't think the glycation issue is really about not eating protein and high glycemic carbs at the same time.

Your body is already full of protein molecules all over the place that can be damage by glycation.

What you want to avoid is eating the high glycemic foods at any time, particularly for the 1st 3-6 months on the GTD, so they can't damage the proteins in your body.


Thanks for this note.  It is taking me some time to get a grasp of what glycation means.  Does this mean that the superfoods listed under fruits (for gatherer) don't cause an adverse reaction to whatever body chemistry we are trying to achieve?  For example, it would be OK to eat 1/2 a grapefruit with an egg because the grapefruit does not cause the adverse reaction?  Also, it would be OK to combine the superfood vegetables with a superfood meat - such as a mushroom, snow pea, onion stir fry with turkey and basamanti rice on the side?  The only dumb question is the one not asked.

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Melissa_J
Friday, January 4, 2008, 2:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Good question, and I don't know the answer to it, but I hope somebody does.

I can see avoiding major fructose sources, like fruit juice or agave nectar, when you're having protein (i.e. meat).  Beyond that, I don't know, but that part alone will take some time for me to get used to.  Other carbs, besides fructose-containing ones, may be ok... I hope.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Lola
Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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fruit pectin is the one of choice.....does anyone know a source?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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jayneeo
Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- Gatherer
Kyosha Nim
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I am sure the stir fry vegiies and meat over rice is fine...
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Lola
Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
missing my whey protein powder like a lost lover

do the GT testing...you might be very surprised to find the missing link, John!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lola
Friday, January 4, 2008, 3:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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today s menu was ostrich burgers, yams and zucchini.....
i believe it s fine to combine.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Lloyd
Friday, January 4, 2008, 4:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from Lola
fruit pectin is the one of choice.....does anyone know a source?


In the states, pectin can be bought with other canning supplies sold in most large groceries. Haven't looked in a few years, assume this to still be true.
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italybound
Monday, January 7, 2008, 4:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1323
So far, I'm having a hard time with the light breakfasts....Today I did the light breakfast and man low blood sugar and hunger 2 hours later about put me down.


just another case of individuality.    I would love it if I came out being able to eat light at breakfast, but I'm doubting it. I think I'm going to be more like you, need the protein.



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JohnW
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 1:33am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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After getting my wife to help with measuring and getting it right this time,it seems I am a Nomad.That seems more organic since I strength test 24 as a Nomad,and 6 as a gatherer.It was very nice to dine with the gatherers,but it is time to wander the Stepps...peace,cousins
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Paula 0+
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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My Dad has a lot of brown age spots/marks on his skin, some raised, some not.  I am starting to get them also.  Not raised like him, but lots of what looks sort of like large freckles on the arms, etc.
I think they are this glycation showing up on my skin.  Is carnosine the supplement to help that?  Does anyone else have this?
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Ribbit
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have several "angel kisses" that Dr. D mentioned were common with Warriors.  I've had them since childhood.  My A son has a couple too, and he's 2 1/2.


ISTJ, BTD since 5/05.  Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..."  I Corinthians 6:12

Family: 3 As, 1 B, 1 AB, 1 O
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Beth
Saturday, January 26, 2008, 5:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Does anyone know any more about these brown spots on ones skin?
I have so many of them.
Ribbit you say Dr. D calls them "angel kisses".
So I am hoping someone can share more about these brwon spots and if they are indeed caused by glycation.
Paulam, carnosine is supposed to help glycation as well as Querctin and yerba mate says Dr. D in the Gatherer protocol in the GTD book.
Also we are not to eat any carbohydrates or fruits with a protein meal as this causes glycation.
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    The GenoType Diet  ›  glycation

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