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BHealthy
Friday, September 21, 2012, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

43% GT1 Hunter
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 233
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Age: 57
Having read through all the threads on mitigating the additional polyamines in flash frozen and canned foods I wanted to summarize my understanding of what I found and ask for clarification on a few points.

1. Polyamines are essential for the maintenance of the high metabolic activity of a normal functioning and healthy body; and, they are critical to the healthy function of the nervous system.  

2. HOWEVER, since polyamines make cells grow, having too many of them (more than we need for 'normal functioning') can stimulate cancerous cell growth, inhibit the anti-cancer response of the body's NK (natural killer) cells, and can cause growth increases in several organs including the liver, pancreas and spleen.

3. Polyamines are both synthesized in the body, and are also derived from the diet.

4. When manufactured by the body most processes depend on the action of an enzyme called ornithine decarboxylase, or ODC.  Blocking ODC is usually sufficient to block the synthesis of all polyamines.

5. The following foods inhibit ODC:
  • Larch arabinogalactan
  • Walnuts
  • Green Tea
  • Dark blue, purple, or red pigmented fruits
  • Pomegranate, plantains and guava
  • Onions, dill. tarragon, broccoli leaves and garlic
  • Curcumin and turmeric

6. Polyamines derived from our diet include:
  • Dietary lectins induce polyamine production in the gut
  • Polyamines are typically found in fermented foods like cheese, beer, sauerkraut and yeast extracts
  • Polyamines are found in foods which have been quick frozen or canned
  • Putrescine: Most 'aged' or 'sharp' cheeses are very high in putrescine. Vegetables such as potatoes, canned/frozen vegetables (other than green vegetables) or certain fruit products, such as oranges and tangerines, can have very high concentrations of putrescine. Fermented soy sauce (containing wheat) is also a rich source of polyamines, particularly putrescine. Shrimp, especially the packaged and frozen types have also been shown to have high levels of putrescine.
  • Spermidine: Mature cheeses, fermented soybeans, fermented tea, Japanese Sake, domestic mushrooms, potatoes and fresh bread are high sources of spermidine.
  • Spermine: Cereals (other than bread), canned or frozen vegetables, meat products, red meat and poultry are high sources of spermine.

(Aha!  This explains some of my avoids!)

Mitigating polyamines in food.  Here is what I've found in all the threads I read.  The quotes below were from Dr D's writings or Heidi's blog:

7. MEAT: Always choose grass-fed, antibiotic, hormone and pesticide free meats.  Optimally, you should look for “free-range” and “grass-fed” cuts of meats.  

8. POULTRY: must be certified organic, antibiotic and pesticide free. Always choose free-range poultry.

9. SEAFOOD: Make sure that your fish is fresh caught, not farm raised and free of industrial toxins (dioxins, xenobiotics and heavy metals).

10. Use EGGS from free-range farm sources, preferably those advertised as being ‘DHA rich’.

11. Regarding fresh non-organic vs frozen organic: it is ALWAYS preferable to eat frozen fruit or vegetables over eating pesticide-polluted food.

12: Regarding flash frozen vs canned: rather than fish or meat frozen by flash-freezing, it is preferable to use canned wild fish and free-range meat products. It's the "flash freezing," not home freezing, which jacks up the polyamines so freezing fresh products yourself is acceptable.

13: Regarding conventional v. organic: Don't eat pesticides. "Organic" means you won't be eating genetically-modified foods, either, which are No Good for anybody.

14. Choose the cleanest food you can find.  If you can't find or afford clean food, then use the inhibitors in point #5 to mitigate them.

QUESTIONS:

1. The above seems to indicate that organic, wild, and grass-fed is more important than whether it's flash-frozen or canned.  In other words, wild/grass-fed flash-frozen is preferable to canned farmed/cafo.  Is this correct?

2. Since I need some polyamines, how do I know whether I have enough polyamines, too few, or too many?

3. When you eat high-polyamine foods, how long do the extra polyamines stay in your body?  In other words, do I need to 'remove' stored polyamines from pre-GTD diets?

4. Can excess levels of polyamides cause cancer or do they merely feed it if you develop it?

5. Do ALL blood types/epigenotypes have to control polyamines or only those that are susceptible to cancer?

6. Do the mitigating foods have to be consumed at the same time as the offending foods or can they be taken as supplements once or twice a day?


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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Lola
Friday, September 21, 2012, 2:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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swami will do the math for you......

enjoy!
Pathway map
Links ABO, diet, polyamines and homocysteine metaboism

http://www.dadamo.com/uploads/POLY-MTHFR.pdf


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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BHealthy
Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Lola
swami will do the math for you......

enjoy!
Pathway map
Links ABO, diet, polyamines and homocysteine metaboism

http://www.dadamo.com/uploads/POLY-MTHFR.pdf

My SWAMI did not answer any of the questions I posed, or I would not have asked them, and neither does the pathway map.





"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."

Revision History (2 edits)
BHealthy  -  Friday, September 21, 2012, 7:23am
BHealthy  -  Friday, September 21, 2012, 6:06am
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Lola
Friday, September 21, 2012, 6:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
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Age: 57
the food given, together with the genoharmonics, have taken all into consideration, given your variables


also try the search feature, for older threads dealing with the same


and what I meant by swami doing the math for all of us.....

here s a quote by Dr D, to give you an idea of the complexity involved in designing the swami interphase

Quoted Text
Interestingly, polyamines (linked to dietary
lectins), principally spermidine, also have
modulatory effect on the NMDA receptor by
regulating nitric oxide production, probably
by facilitating intracellular mRNA.


and also
Quoted Text
Both polyamine formation and lectin avoidance are addressed in ER4YT, which is probably why the diet does work rather well in psoriasis.



''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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BHealthy
Friday, September 21, 2012, 9:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

43% GT1 Hunter
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Age: 57
Quoted from Lola
the food given, together with the genoharmonics, have taken all into consideration, given your variables

also try the search feature, for older threads dealing with the same

I read every single thread on these subjects before creating this one. None of them answered my questions.

My questions are irrespective of SWAMI calculations.

Fish is a HUGE part of this diet and, without the answer to question #1, if I can't get fresh wild caught fish from clean water (which few people in this country can), how do I know whether canned tuna (which probably has mercury in it) is better 6 days a week than flash-frozen wild caught cod or six-day-old "fresh" flounder?  I can't believe the cod isn't the best option.    

Without the answer to question #2, how do I know whether I need to worry about question #1?  In other words, if I'm eating only diamonds and superfoods and everything else I eat is fresh, organic, grass-fed, and wild caught, how important is #1?  Do I still need to mitigate?  If I do, how exactly do I do it?  Once a day, before the meal, or with the meal?

Without the answers to the other questions, how do I advise (and explain why they should listen to me) my husband and other family members who are not using SWAMI?  All I have to guide me are the books.

Lola, I don't think you understand how difficult and frustrating it is for those of us who don't have the same level of knowledge and understanding of the science behind the diet that you do.  I spend most of the day reading the archives and I'm not finding what I need.

I do understand how frustrating it must be for you to be asked the same questions over and over but, if there was a definitive answer in the archives, you wouldn't have to do that.  

I'm not the only one who's looking for theses answers or there wouldn't be four pages of results when I search on "avoid flash-frozen".   If I'm using the wrong search criteria, please let me know the right one.


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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PCUK-Positive
Friday, September 21, 2012, 9:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,939
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Age: 53
people are trying to advise you not to get so wrapped up in the detail, but you are. let go of all the data in your head, (with respect) and just follow the diet. As you get better you can then adapt and change as your body tells you too.


1. The above seems to indicate that organic, wild, and grass-fed is more important than whether it's flash-frozen or canned.  In other words, wild/grass-fed flash-frozen is preferable to canned farmed/cafo.  Is this correct? of course it is

2. Since I need some polyamines, how do I know whether I have enough polyamines, too few, or too many? eat within the portion and frequency advise of swami, use it as a guide and then fine tune.

3. When you eat high-polyamine foods, how long do the extra polyamines stay in your body?  In other words, do I need to 'remove' stored polyamines from pre-GTD diets? why not just try and avoid foods high in amaines.

4. Can excess levels of polyamides cause cancer or do they merely feed it if you develop it? who cares, just avoid them! lol

5. Do ALL blood types/epigenotypes have to control polyamines or only those that are susceptible to cancer? it is is worked out in swami, the food chioces take all these things into account. all in moderation.

6. Do the mitigating foods have to be consumed at the same time as the offending foods or can they be taken as supplements once or twice a day?[/quote] It is only one areas that you are looking at, it all works out if you just eat compliantly. if you have a specific problem then follow a protocol to correct that before continuing with swami. although if yo have the swami setting correctly with all the info in there it will sort it for you



Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Gatherer.
DD ( is O+(Non)NN, Duffy Fy(a+b-) Lewis (a+b-) Gatherer
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AKArtlover
Saturday, September 22, 2012, 12:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
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Get the BTD Encyclopedia. You will enjoy it.

I understand your line of thinking-- however, this way of living/eating is fine tuning so much. Listen to your body to fine tune more.

Balance in all things.

Beware of over worrying about health. This stress of this line of thinking can be worse than any food. Good, better, best. Getting emotions cleared out and in check is probably more important than anything you put in your mouth.

Cultivating expression of what you are passionate about is even more important, IMO.

Best to you.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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ruthiegirl
Monday, September 24, 2012, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
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Posts: 12,295
Gender: Female
Location: New York
Age: 42
Even the encyclopedia won't answer every single question, as it's geared to consumers, not doctors or scientists.

Most of us find that the science involved is way over our heads; we do what we can to understand, but there comes a point where most of us just "trust Dr D's calculations" because we're utterly and truly lost in the data and we know we can't make sense of it ourselves. We put our faith in Dr D because we've seen enough to realize that he seems to know what he's doing and we can't truly follow along.

Based on what I've seen of BHealthy's posts, she doesn't fall into that category. She has a scientific mind and wants to take a look at the hard data so she can do her own research; after that she'll determine whether or not to follow Dr D's advice to the letter or whether she wants to make some alterations. There are also times when Dr D's advice isn't completely clear-cut (such as whether to eat frozen or canned fish) and she wants to do her own research on the "best" way to follow his guidelines.

Most of what's found on the message board itself is geared towards consumers, not scientists. There are some links to more scientific websites. Dr D has a few blogs on different subjects and with different target audiences; one or more of those may interest you. He's written a textbook designed for graduate students and is working on a second textbook; BHealthy may appreciate the depth of information in the textbook.

There's also a Facebook page called "Generative Medicine" that's more technically oriented than most of the BTD Facebook pages which may interest you. You need to be invited by somebody who's already in the group to be able to join it. If you PM me I can help you get hooked up with that- but  be aware that Yom Kippur starts tomorrow night and I may not have much time to be on the computer before Thursday (in a few minutes I'm getting offline, probably for the rest of today.)


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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BHealthy
Monday, September 24, 2012, 6:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

43% GT1 Hunter
Autumn: Harvest, success.
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Age: 57
First of all, @AKArtlover, thank you for understanding my line of thinking.  I looked at the encyclopedia and it's almost $300!  For that, I need to be sure the info is what I'm looking for, so I need to find a public copy I can peruse before I spring for it.  What is the return policy on books?

Second, why does everyone assume, whenever I ask for clarification, that I'm looking for reasons to cheat?  I have stated repeatedly that I am following my SWAMI religiously.  Telling me to "just follow the diet" when I'm asking for advice on the best way to continue to do so is contradictory.  

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
people are trying to advise you not to get so wrapped up in the detail, but you are. let go of all the data in your head, (with respect) and just follow the diet. As you get better you can then adapt and change as your body tells you too.

If SWAMI requires that I stifle my ability to reason, then it's a cult, and I seriously doubt that is Dr. D's intention.  

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
1. The above seems to indicate that organic, wild, and grass-fed is more important than whether it's flash-frozen or canned.  In other words, wild/grass-fed flash-frozen is preferable to canned farmed/cafo.  Is this correct? of course it is

Obvious to you, perhaps, but with respect to polyamines -- does freezing or canning create more of them -- it is not so obvious to me or I would not have asked.  If I'm to follow the diet, it has to be possible to follow it.  You can't tell me I must eat fresh wild-caught fish and give me no alternatives if they are not available where I live.

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
2. Since I need some polyamines, how do I know whether I have enough polyamines, too few, or too many? eat within the portion and frequency advise of swami, use it as a guide and then fine tune.

3. When you eat high-polyamine foods, how long do the extra polyamines stay in your body?  In other words, do I need to 'remove' stored polyamines from pre-GTD diets? why not just try and avoid foods high in amaines.

How am I supposed to 'fine tune' if I don't know how to determine whether I have enough, too few or too many?  

Due to the limited amount of input data required, SWAMI has to make assumptions, and I suspect that it assumes the worst with respect to past damage and provides an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol to mitigate that.

In my case, I eliminated most of the offending foods over two years ago and the rest of them, except for flash-frozen fish, when I started SWAMI last month.  I have also been taking every one of the ODC inhibiting foods (except larch which I will order today) for years.  So, if polyamines are necessary for some critical processes, I'm not sure I NEED an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol UNLESS I have to mitigate the effects of the diet I followed over two years ago.

If polyamines linger in the body like mercury, then I do, and I will make a concerted effort to clean house.  If not, and I only have to deal with the ones I'm currently eating, then I probably don't have to worry about the few pieces of flash-frozen fish I eat every week.

    Since I started this thread, I have been doing additional research and have found two tests to determine polyamine levels:  The indican test recommended in LR4YT, and this quote from a review of LR4YT: "Albumin is used to assess the long term nutritional status of patients since it reflect body protein stores for the last month. The reference range: 3.5 – 5-2 G/dL.  Levels above 4.8 probably indicate higher polyamine levels, levels below 4 are safe levels.  A few symptoms are bad breath, headaches from fermented foods such as wine, bear, or sauerkraut."

    So, on Wednesday, I will be having some lab tests done.  The lab reports I have from 1983-1996, when I practically lived on gluten, sugar, and dairy, show my albumin levels varying between 3.9 and 4.6.  Indican was not measured.  

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
4. Can excess levels of polyamines cause cancer or do they merely feed it if you develop it? who cares, just avoid them! lol

I care.      

I suspect that the reason it's so hard for me to get answers to my questions is that nobody knows them.  If that's the case, why can't you just say so?  Why is it necessary to make me feel like I'm ignorant for needing clarification?

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
5. Do ALL blood types/epigenotypes have to control polyamines or only those that are susceptible to cancer? it is is worked out in swami, the food chioces take all these things into account. all in moderation.

I also cook for my husband (A-), my sister (?), and my niece (?).  They all refuse to follow SWAMI, so I have to protect them on the sly, and I would like to know if my sister and niece need to be concerned about polyamines as well.  My questions are never only about me....    

Quoted from PCUK-Positive
6. Do the mitigating foods have to be consumed at the same time as the offending foods or can they be taken as supplements once or twice a day?It is only one areas that you are looking at, it all works out if you just eat compliantly. if you have a specific problem then follow a protocol to correct that before continuing with swami. although if yo have the swami setting correctly with all the info in there it will sort it for you

Thank you for the information on protocols; I did not know that was how the protocols were supposed to be used.

The advice given elsewhere in this forum to marinate flash-frozen meats in cherry juice implies that polyamines need to be inhibited when they are prepared/consumed.  This is what makes me think that I don't have to worry about past 'transgressions'.  But it also makes me worry that the ODC-inhibitors I've been taking are not as effective as I'd like them to be because I take them in the morning, not with the offending foods.

Unfortunately, I cannot turn off the wheels that are constantly turning in my brain and little details like this might make the difference between the diet working extremely well and working only marginally better than what I've managed on my own.

The answers are important.  The only way for me to eliminate stress is with knowledge.  


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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BHealthy
Monday, September 24, 2012, 6:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ruthiegirl
Based on what I've seen of BHealthy's posts, she doesn't fall into that category. She has a scientific mind and wants to take a look at the hard data so she can do her own research; after that she'll determine whether or not to follow Dr D's advice to the letter or whether she wants to make some alterations. There are also times when Dr D's advice isn't completely clear-cut (such as whether to eat frozen or canned fish) and she wants to do her own research on the "best" way to follow his guidelines.

He's written a textbook designed for graduate students and is working on a second textbook; BHealthy may appreciate the depth of information in the textbook.

There's also a Facebook page called "Generative Medicine" that's more technically oriented than most of the BTD Facebook pages which may interest you. You need to be invited by somebody who's already in the group to be able to join it. If you PM me I can help you get hooked up with that- but  be aware that Yom Kippur starts tomorrow night and I may not have much time to be on the computer before Thursday (in a few minutes I'm getting offline, probably for the rest of today.)

Ruth, you're a godsend!  I've just PM'd you about the Facebook group but don't worry if you can't respond until after YomKippur. I have patience if I know it's in the works.

I spent 6 hours composing my response to @Policychecker's reply and didn't see Ruthies' until I posted it.  Sorry.

It was the textbook I was referring to.  Does it explain the logic behind the diet or does it teach naturopathy?

Ruthie, is right, I need to know the best way to follow the diet.  I'm expecting better-than-average results so I have to have better-than-average compliance and to manage that, I need more information.

Thank you SO MUCH Ruthie!!!!!  


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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D.L.
Monday, September 24, 2012, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
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I ordered Dr. D's  BTD Encyclopedia directly from here (Dr. D) recently and paid less than $30 for it. When I looked first on Amazon, the only one I could find was $300. I couldn't do that.
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
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Quoted from BHealthy
First of all, @AKArtlover, thank you for understanding my line of thinking.  I looked at the encyclopedia and it's almost $300!  For that, I need to be sure the info is what I'm looking for, so I need to find a public copy I can peruse before I spring for it.  What is the return policy on books?

Consumer book, not textbook. Some of the items will tell you that they inhibit polyamine synthesis.

Second, why does everyone assume, whenever I ask for clarification, that I'm looking for reasons to cheat?  I have stated repeatedly that I am following my SWAMI religiously.  Telling me to "just follow the diet" when I'm asking for advice on the best way to continue to do so is contradictory.  


If SWAMI requires that I stifle my ability to reason, then it's a cult, and I seriously doubt that is Dr. D's intention.  

I think the response is more along the lines of "aim for excellence and not perfection"

Obvious to you, perhaps, but with respect to polyamines -- does freezing or canning create more of them -- it is not so obvious to me or I would not have asked.  If I'm to follow the diet, it has to be possible to follow it.  You can't tell me I must eat fresh wild-caught fish and give me no alternatives if they are not available where I live.

Yes, freezing creates more. You have to eat. It is better most often to eat something frozen than to exclude it completely. Balanced with other foods that counteract (weighting all factors).
How am I supposed to 'fine tune' if I don't know how to determine whether I have enough, too few or too many?  
In time, you will learn to listen to your body telling you if something is a good choice or not.
Due to the limited amount of input data required, SWAMI has to make assumptions, and I suspect that it assumes the worst with respect to past damage and provides an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol to mitigate that.

If you have serious health concerns, it is best to go see Dr. D or the U of B shift especially if a qualified practioner is not in your area.

In my case, I eliminated most of the offending foods over two years ago and the rest of them, except for flash-frozen fish, when I started SWAMI last month.  I have also been taking every one of the ODC inhibiting foods (except larch which I will order today) for years.  So, if polyamines are necessary for some critical processes, I'm not sure I NEED an aggressive anti-polyamine protocol UNLESS I have to mitigate the effects of the diet I followed over two years ago.

If polyamines linger in the body like mercury, then I do, and I will make a concerted effort to clean house.  If not, and I only have to deal with the ones I'm currently eating, then I probably don't have to worry about the few pieces of flash-frozen fish I eat every week.

    Since I started this thread, I have been doing additional research and have found two tests to determine polyamine levels:  The indican test recommended in LR4YT, and this quote from a review of LR4YT: "Albumin is used to assess the long term nutritional status of patients since it reflect body protein stores for the last month. The reference range: 3.5 – 5-2 G/dL.  Levels above 4.8 probably indicate higher polyamine levels, levels below 4 are safe levels.  A few symptoms are bad breath, headaches from fermented foods such as wine, bear, or sauerkraut."

    So, on Wednesday, I will be having some lab tests done.  The lab reports I have from 1983-1996, when I practically lived on gluten, sugar, and dairy, show my albumin levels varying between 3.9 and 4.6.  Indican was not measured.  


I care.      

I suspect that the reason it's so hard for me to get answers to my questions is that nobody knows them.  If that's the case, why can't you just say so?  Why is it necessary to make me feel like I'm ignorant for needing clarification?
Most people here have varying levels of education and input here; I think people's hearts are in the right place-- essentially they are saying, this works-- relax and let your body heal.
I also cook for my husband (A-), my sister (?), and my niece (?).  They all refuse to follow SWAMI, so I have to protect them on the sly, and I would like to know if my sister and niece need to be concerned about polyamines as well.  My questions are never only about me....    
You are getting hung up on one issue. There are many aspects about foods. Variety, balance, quality.
Thank you for the information on protocols; I did not know that was how the protocols were supposed to be used.

The advice given elsewhere in this forum to marinate flash-frozen meats in cherry juice implies that polyamines need to be inhibited when they are prepared/consumed.  This is what makes me think that I don't have to worry about past 'transgressions'.  But it also makes me worry that the ODC-inhibitors I've been taking are not as effective as I'd like them to be because I take them in the morning, not with the offending foods.

Unfortunately, I cannot turn off the wheels that are constantly turning in my brain and little details like this might make the difference between the diet working extremely well and working only marginally better than what I've managed on my own.
Dr. D said the people who get the best results are somewhere between 70-80?% compliant. I'm not worried about the percent other than misquoting. Higher compliance initially if ill is beneficial.

The answers are important.  The only way for me to eliminate stress is with knowledge.  
I am the generally the same Myers Brigg. Shifting your thinking slightly may help. Take this to extreme thought to see how ridiculous it sounds. i.e. "If I don't understand every single bodily process and the exact foods to put into my body, I am going to die after my next meal." Nah, the body is dynamic and flexible and always working toward health.

My neurotic need to know landed me in Dr. D's office as there was a lot more uncertainty than a detail about foods (health issues and genuinely Explorer/Hunterish typing as Warrior-confusing to me with a torn up gut). The type of detailed education you are desiring would from him directly (if that's how you would choose to use your alloted appointment time) or to go to U of B with a major as an ND or happening upon someone to get into a detailed convo with at an IFHI conference. I have the textbook and the conference CD's and will enjoy them when I get to them, but don't have the time to investigate this at this point.




"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
You should have listed on your SWAMI portions per week.

Remember to include lots of fresh fruits and veg. These are healing. Don't cook everything and light steam (or don't cook to death) what veg you choose to cook. Some feel that fruit should never be cooked.

Hope all this was helpful. That was the intention.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
If you just have a general health concern, like fatigue or cancer prevention, etc. you might get one of the specialty books from the store and just be extra conscious about including those beneficials for your blood type as they corolate with SWAMI.

Textbook is huge, interesting with lots of thought process about this and science, but is not necessary to being successful with doing this. It is one of three he was planning to write last I heard.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Monday, September 24, 2012, 8:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
Just thought of an answer to some of your thoughts. Look at Deflect. He often prescribes to clear out past lectins taken between meals. It is also nice if you are eating something with avoids or just need a boost of the lovely ingredients.

The more I learn, the more I appreciate the brilliance of the science and the thought process.

Gut regenerates quickly, but you need all the good stuff to make a new good gut. Variety, balance, quality (and some occasional supplements).


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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BHealthy
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 1:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

43% GT1 Hunter
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 233
Gender: Female
Location: Illinois
Age: 57
LOL! @AKArtlover -- thanks for trying to help!  My husband has been trying to get me to change my modus-operendi for years to no avail.  I'm a perfectionist.  Have you read my signature?  That's me to a tee.  I do everything 110% and the only time I'm able to relax is when I've accomplished my goal.

Flash-frozen isn't the only thing I'm 'stuck on'.  I was confused about to-soak-nuts-or-not last week, before that it was home-made-almond-milk, before that it was when-do-I-take-my-curcumin, and before that it was what-tests-do-I-need-to-gauge-progress.  If I have any doubt about a 'rule' I will always try to get clarification.  

I don't have any major health issues, just the few things my current diet hasn't addressed to my satisfaction -- allergies, migraines, and tooth decay.  They've improved but I still have them.  I would also like to know (know, not hope) that I'm preventing the cancer, HBP, arthritis, and dementia that runs in my family.  So far, I've been spared.

At the same time, I need to protect the rest of my family from those diseases, without their cooperation.  I'm sure that if they see noticeable improvement in me, they'll accept my help, so I have to make sure they DO see noticeable improvement in me.  

The books I have are GTD, LR4YT, ER4YT and the type O and A food lists.  The problem is that the 'pearls of wisdom' are scattered throughout all of them and the indexes aren't detailed enough.  I wish the books were available in a digital format that could be searched.  

I'm willing to spring for the text book IF it has what I'm looking for.  I think that would be cheaper than a trip to Connecticut and since I'm not deathly ill, I just need direction, I can't really justify the expense of seeing the master.

Supplement-wise I was going to get Trehalose for my post-nasal drip, Quercetin and Collinsonia for the allergies, and ARA 6 for general health.  Are you recommending Deflect over ARA 6?  I really only need something to mitigate when I'm eating out and there is nothing near-compliant available.  E.G. no organic veggies, grass-fed beef, wild caught fish and complaint cooking fats.  I avoid all my other avoids and I'm not shy about asking for substitutions.

My husband loves to eat out but I can usually get a salad with EVOO and lemon juice and a piece of beef filet, either carpaccio or medium-rare.

My goal is 99% compliance until I see results.


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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ABJoe
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 1:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

35% Nomad or Teacher - health history dependent
Sun Beh Nim
Moderator
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Age: 51
Quoted from BHealthy
I would also like to know (know, not hope) that I'm preventing the cancer, HBP, arthritis, and dementia that runs in my family.  So far, I've been spared.

I don't think we can ever KNOW that we won't get "something", as all of the same inputs don't necessarily equal the same output in each body.  There are so many pathways in the body and any one of them may react differently in two different bodies...  I understand the desire, and the work to be the best we can be, but we don't ever KNOW what is in our future.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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AKArtlover
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 2:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
Dr. D has a way about him that on some levels he may not even be aware consciously of his intuitive ability to level out a patient. I don't really have the words for this... Watched him in action a few times as well as being worked on myself. Very, very interesting. A visit is worth more than a textbook.

You sound so much like me. Cracks me up a bit.

Had a lot of emotional work done in the past year and a half. I appreciate how my mind works, but also realize that it is just one way of viewing the world and not to let myself get nutty in a loop. Hence the "centered-leaning" in my avatar. I have noticed personality change as I've let go of baggage and incorporated more behavioral flexibility.

Deflect contains some ARA 6 (larch). Andrea calls it Dr. D's pixie dust as it is in many of his supplements.






"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 2:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
Worry is a negative prayer.

Quoted Text
Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?


Keep asking questions, you are fine. Just make sure you aren't creating negative chatter for yourself if you don't get complete answers.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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AKArtlover
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 2:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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BHealthy
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 5:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

43% GT1 Hunter
Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 233
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Location: Illinois
Age: 57
Quoted from AKArtlover

LOL!  I'll order some!  Have you tried it?


"Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical, and expecting more than others think is possible."
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AKArtlover
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 10:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39
I'm a big fan of Bach flowers.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 12:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 12,295
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Location: New York
Age: 42
Reading this thread, I was actually thinking "You need some Bach Flower Remedies to relax your thought processes about food." I think you should get a few books about the remedies (or thoroughly read through a few different websites about them) to figure out exactly which remedies are most likely to help you. Vervain is likely a good one, but it may not  be the only one you need, and another one (or combination of remedies) may be a better fit for you than Vervain.

In the meantime, buy the best quality fish you can find, alternate between canned and flash-frozen until you get a clear answer on which one is "better," and continue to soak your walnuts but for a shorter time than you used to.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Spring
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 3:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,268
Gender: Female
Location: Southeastern USA
Quoted from AKArtlover

Boy, am I ever thankful I'm not carrying around that load of symptoms! You poor people!!    I really like Bach's stuff though!

As for the diet, I enjoy being surprised over and over again that Dr. D. is right on the money about so many, many different things! This ain't no cult! It is reality!! I enjoy the forest myself - who wants to look at a tree or two all day?! 'Way too inhibiting for this gal!



"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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AKArtlover
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 5:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

centered leaning INTP Explorer, Supertaster, SWAMI
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 2,121
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest, US of A
Age: 39


re: vervain
They just give all of those to help you narrow in the one that will work for you. I doubt there is an individual fitting all of that! You are right, what a load!

ruthiegirl is right, you have to find what works for you. A book will help.
You can make custom mixes as well.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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Victoria
Friday, September 28, 2012, 12:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Posts: 15,410
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Location: Oregon
Quoted from BHealthy


It was the textbook I was referring to.  Does it explain the logic behind the diet or does it teach naturopathy?



I've seen some of the textbook that Dr. D shared with those of us at a reception at National College of Natural Medicine - mostly N.D.'s in attendance.  The book, as well as most of his talk was way over my head, although I thoroughly enjoyed meeting him and watching how fast the wheels of his mind turn!

This is all I know about the book:

"Foundations of Generative Medicine, Volume 1 is the reference guide for the didactic education modules of the new Center of Excellence in Generative Medicine Studies at the University of Bridgeport. Topics include:

    Epigenetic and environmental influences on phenotype
    Developmental origins of disease
    Network medicine
    Living systems analysis
    Historical basis of variation
    Morphometrics and dermatoglyphics
    Molecular glycomics
    Archeogenetics
    Nutrigenomics
    Polymorphisms and individuation
    Nutrient control of gene expression
    Self-organization and emergence as molecular vitalism
    Glycogonjugates and oncology


Envisioned as part of a three-volume series, and with over 800 pages of text, 100 unique illustrations and extensively referenced, Foundations of Generative Medicine, Volume 1 provides the basis and guidance for the true practice of personalized medicine."
http://www.generativemedicine.org/textbook.shtml

Purchase at Drum Hill Publishing $249.95
http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED012



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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