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Poor absorption?  This thread currently has 1,874 views. Print Print Thread
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D.L.
Friday, August 10, 2012, 5:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
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I think I am not absorbing nutrients from food nor supplements. I stay very, very tired. Going to a couple of stores, then Walmart, wears me completely out. Watching people with a lot of energy, such as sports on T.V., makes me too tired to watch. I get 8 hours sleep each night. Also, my fingernails are getting worse and worse. Now, you can not only see the verticle ridges, you can feel them. And the ends are transparent now. I'm thinking it is either lack of iron (my multi doesn't have iron because of my age and heart), lack of protein, or sluggish thyroid. I don't eat gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, strawberries, bananas, red grapes, avacado, and tropical fruits because of allergies. I have very little salt because it swells my already bad leg arteries. I can't seem to find a grain that doesn't cause me serious sinus congestion. I hate fish. Pork and tomatoes are avoids. I eat some compliant beans, but they bloat my stomach.
     So basically I eat compliant nuts, compliant vegies, and a few fruits. I eat a small steak once a week with broccoli and a salad. I eat a little chicken if I don't have to smell it cooking. I tried ground turkey but it gave me a lot of phlem.
     I went to two pharmacies this morn to try to find some HCL, but no. One girl said she didn't think it was an OTC. I know better. I can get it at a health food store or order it. Maybe that will help. I don't know if there is much iron in what I eat. I'm scheduled to have a blood test late this month. That should tell me something, maybe, about my iron level. Through the years I have been animic off and on. Maybe I should eat fish for protein (yuck) if I don't have to smell it cooking.
     The good news ... my fingerprints are starting to come back.
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ruthiegirl
Friday, August 10, 2012, 5:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Have you tried canned fish? It comes already cooked, so you don't have to worry about smelling it.

What is your typical diet like, and which supplements are you taking? You've listed a bunch of foods you're NOT eating, but what ARE you eating?


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Lloyd
Friday, August 10, 2012, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
     The good news ... my fingerprints are starting to come back.


Healing.

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ABJoe
Friday, August 10, 2012, 6:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
The good news ... my fingerprints are starting to come back.

What you are doing is helping the gut heal.  It may seem like some things are getting worse, but when the fingerprints get better, the gut is healing which will help the absorption...  Sometimes when we are really sick, healing seems frustratingly slow, but we have to start where we are and heal until the body is finished.  We can only heal as fast as the body can, so it helps us develop patience as well...


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aisling
Friday, August 10, 2012, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Your diet sounds pretty low protein to me, maybe you could use some more?  I second the canned fish idea.
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D.L.
Friday, August 10, 2012, 10:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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For breakfast I usually eat either half an apple with peanut butter, or mashed black eyed peas with lemon juice stuffed in celery, or once in a while sauteed carrots, onions, and  turnip greens or spinach.
     For the rest of the day I have either peanuts or almonds or fruit or sometimes pumpkin seeds as a snack, a salad with iceberg lettuce (I have trouble with the other kinds), grated carrots, and whatever fresh vegie available, with olive oil and lemon juice, and later in the day steamed Brussels sprouts, broccoli, or whatever canned or fresh vegie I have on hand. But usually I just snack on the nuts instead of eating supper. Like I said, we go out to eat once a week and I have a 6 oz. sirloin (which I have no trouble digesting), steamed broccoli, and a small salad. Once in a while, if I don't have to smell it cooking, I'll have a piece of fried chicken breast or thigh and I pull off the skin. Two months ago I had some canned salmon after I rinsed it off, but it kind of makes me nauseated. Twice in two months I had some fried fish that someone caught in a lake (mostly bones) with no breading, which wasn't too bad. Tuna fish is a Swami avoid, plus I can't have the mayo(egg allergy)and pickles (swami avoid) to hide the taste.
     So, its peanuts, almonds, pumpkin seeds, sometimes flax, certain vegies, either steamed, raw, or in salads, such as spinach, Brussel sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots,  sometimes turnip greens, berries (except no strawberries and only limited blueberries on a rotation basis), grapefruit, watermelon (except my husband says don't buy any more because they aren't good), apples, cherries, figs and dates,(when I can find any), apricots, prunes/plums, green beans, black eyed peas, certain brands of P.B. but not all, and that's about all I eat, due to allergies and Swami. I only drink reverse osmosis bottled water, sometimes with lemon.
     As far as supplements: Ubiquinol, hawthorn, and L-carnitine for my heart, fish oil, complete B vitamins, sublingual B12, vit. C, milk thistle for my liver (no longer inflamed), red yeast rice for my cholesterol, a little calcium citrate with magnesium, D3, potassium, and a baby aspirin (heart doctor said one a day), multivitamin with no iron, astaxithin, turmeric, and bacopa. I take  these, after doing much research, instead of meds. They have made an amazing difference in lowering my heart rate (except if I eat gluten or dairy or eggs), lowering my blood pressure from dangerously high to normal, and lowering my cholesterol/triglycerides (which still needs more work because I'm pre-diabetic).
     If you could have seen me when I got out of the hospital, you wouldn't believe I am the same person. But I do get too tired ... maybe my heart or thyroid or not enough iron or protein. So there you pretty much have it.  
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ABJoe
Friday, August 10, 2012, 10:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
But I do get too tired ... maybe my heart or thyroid or not enough iron or protein. So there you pretty much have it.  

Have you ever done an Iodine Patch Test?  Here is one link to a basic procedure:
http://www.flowermoundchiropractor.com/index.php?p=143056


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D.L.
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 1:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ABJoe - Thank you. I did the patch test this evening as you suggested. My iodine disappeared in under 45 minutes from my inner arm, and I had put it on quite thickly. Now you can't even see where it was.  According to that website, if "Patch disappears, or almost disappears in under 6 hours - VERY SEVERE". If that is true, no wonder I am so tired. I know in years past I have had issues with under active thyroid. Now that you mentioned it, I remember my mom talking about that type of test many years ago. She had a really severe case of under active thyroid all her life and had to take something from the doctor. I don't get iodine from salt because I don't add any, due the side effects salt causes in my body, and I quit eating shrimp because of my Swami, two sources of iodine. Thanks again!!!
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ABJoe
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You're welcome...  I hope it helps you.  


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DoS
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Try taking 30-60mg of Biotin for a week or however long one bottle of it lasts. Avoid the type with sorbitol in it.

It is clear your digestion is actually very wrong. Everything you are describing is telling me extreme imbalance. At that point you won't be making your own biotin, which is usually made in abundance from bacteria in you. Your fingernails tell me the same thing. Furthermore you need biotin to not be pre-diabetic. You'll probably have some interesting BM's for that a week but... after a few days on biotin start consuming some sort of probiotic. I know you say dairy, but can you handle yogurt?

I'm going to point out you are a secreter so you should be more tolerant of things than you currently feel you are. Something is very off. I can't recommend highly enough to try the biotin. Consider this, it'll cost you $10 and there is no upper limit to that amount you can take, perfectly safe. Also being a secreter you are going to want to consume some grains, but you have to be able to balance blood sugar first. Unhappy gut flora appears as one of the leading causes in diabetes and poor blood sugar... It comes up constantly in the news. Biotin will help with that. I think after a few days you'll find you can tolerate a 1/2 cup (cooked) brown rice twice a day. Some animals and humans need some carbohydrate to keep cardiovascular system in good shape.

If you are an explorer you need more protein, and especially for blood sugar balance. I understand not being big into fish. How you don't like turkey is beyond me though. Turkey is a good source of selenium which will help cardiovascular repair. Eggs, what do eggs do to you? Sometimes people are allergic to the yolk or whites, but not the other. Figure something out... maybe some soy protein smoothies?

You could switch to Nattokinase instead of nasty aspirin. Nattokinase is a better blood thinner than anything else.

Also I see some contradictions. First of all if you can eat dates you could probably eat some carbohydrates. Dates are extensively high glycemic compared to grains. There are not that many things with a high glycemic index, not even straight glucose.

Back off the almonds, too high in omega 6. Explorers need high omega 3 in order to keep metabolism correct.

Honestly I think once your gut gets back in balance a little, you'll gain a sensitivity to harder to digest foods like beef (try lamb), and feel the benefit from the vegetables. You won't be pre-diabetic, swelling will go down, etc. You may even find some recommended whey based cheeses work for you as well. In fact some of them might work right now but the increase in insulin reception will result in the body dealing with latent bacterial issues and be really uncomfortable (feel like your ears get cleaned out, sinuses, etc). You'll probably make more stomach acid etc once you get your gut flora calmed down a little (inflammation will inhibit everything, as you know).

How is your weight?
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D.L.
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 2:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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DOS - Thank you. Yes, my digestion is amiss. Has been since a child. I used to eat everything when growing up and always had sinus infections, ear aches, headaches, and stomach trouble.
     I looked up biotin in two of my books. It certainly does impact what you said. So I looked at what I have been taking. There are 300 mcg in my multi vitamin/mineral supplement and 100 mcg in my B complex supplement. Perhaps I just am not absorbing it or taking it after the wrong meal or is blocked by something else.
     Yes, I have tried yogurt off and on. Within a couple of minutes it puts me to sleep. Strange. I can't find lamb around here. I will back off the almonds. I didn't know about the high omega 6. I eat a lot of almonds. I have tried all types of cheeses and whey. Sinus headaches and phlegm. I like turkey, which is why I have bought ground turkey twice, but ended up throwing most of it away because of immediate excess phlegm and headaches. Perhaps it was something in the processing or something they put in for preservative. I am extremely chemically sensitive. The smell of a whole turkey cooking makes me nauseated. Same with chicken and fish. I think it is the smell of the grease, because my stomach never has been able to tolerate grease ... makes me sick.
     I haven't had dates for a long time, because of the high glycemic index, but it is something that I can tolerate allergy wise. I tried natto, thinking it would be a good substitute for baby aspirin, but because of the soy, it made me sick, sinus-wise and stomach.
     I have had skin tests for allergies twice, IgG blood tests for allergies twice, and the test of trial-and-error all my life. Eggs, gluten, and dairy top the avoid list with the tests, and soy and sunflower are right up there with experiences. I didn't know I had a delayed reaction to some of the fruits, such as bananas and strawberries, until I took the IgG blood tests, a year apart, but I had wondered what was wrong hours after I ate them, not relating it to food reactions. I used to have a smoothy with bananas every day with fruit and flax. Some of those are also on my Swami avoids list.
     I am going to go buy some HCL, some good acidophilus capsules, and some type of iodine supplement today. I am also going to research the best times to take the biotin and with what foods. I'm just not absorbing what I already take, I think. 400 mcg should be enough per day.
     One thing that probably will always remain a problem is the high doses of malathion I was exposed to for years as I grew up in FL, where they would spray the orange groves around my house from planes and it would drift. Then I'd ride my horses through the groves. Research shows it can really impact the immune system, and the shelf life is longer than a person's life span. But I'm still here and kicking.  Thanks again.
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ABJoe
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 3:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
I like turkey, which is why I have bought ground turkey twice, but ended up throwing most of it away because of immediate excess phlegm and headaches. Perhaps it was something in the processing or something they put in for preservative. I am extremely chemically sensitive. The smell of a whole turkey cooking makes me nauseated. Same with chicken and fish. I think it is the smell of the grease, because my stomach never has been able to tolerate grease ... makes me sick.

Have you tried starting a whole turkey baking, then leaving the house for most of the baking time so you come back when the initial smell has been replaced by the mostly done smell?  Or alternatively, putting the turkey in the oven on "Time Bake" before you go to bed so it starts in the middle of the night and when you wake up it is almost done?  I have to do this for my DD who is also sensitive to the smell of turkey skin starting to cook.

It is possible that you are sensitive to the "Natural Flavors" in the ground turkey.  We can no longer find 100% pure ground turkey.  It all has natural flavors, which the manufacturer has stated is "Spice material such as Rosemary, Thyme, etc."


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DoS
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You are taking 300-600mcg. 300-600mcg in mg is only.3-.6mg. Supplement forms come in 5,000mcg or known as 5mg. I'm recommending 30-60mg, or in otherwords 30,000 to 60,000mcg.
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D.L.
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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DoS - I just got home from the health food store. I bought aome biotin that is 3500 mcg per softgel. If I add that to my 400 mcg I already take, that should help with my nails, stomach, and my hair (which  I didn't mention has been "shedding").
     I also bought some milk-free probiotic acidophilus plus FOS, some power zymes full spectrum digestive enzymes, some bataine HCL plus pepsin, and some TSII thyroid balancing formula. Something has got to help!!!
     ABJoe - I wonder if baking the turkey or chicken in one of those baking bags like some folks do would help reduce the smell. Of course, I don't know what the bag is coated with. Might be bad.
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ABJoe
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Quoted from D.L.
I wonder if baking the turkey or chicken in one of those baking bags like some folks do would help reduce the smell. Of course, I don't know what the bag is coated with. Might be bad.

I've never used or evaluated a bag...  I only use an enameled roaster with a lid (or a foil tent - depends on the size of the turkey)...  I also add onion, garlic, (sometimes carrots) and herbs on my turkey to add additional flavor.


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Damon
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 5:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I haven't read all replies, but to possibly help, the following thought;

It could be that your liver is for some reason overburdened (possible cause: a long-term diet containing too much fat, protein and/or gluten). If you're generally constipated that would be a decent symptom too.

To find out if this is the case, try one week of focusing on foods that are beneficial for the liver, while considerably limiting your protein and fat intake.

- Eat compliant veggies and fruits as much as you like (don't eat too many fruits in a single sitting though, in order to keep the glycemic load of your meals balanced).
- Focus on the fruits and vegetables that are known to be beneficial for the liver (such as green leafy vegetables, garlic, onions, carrots, cruciferous vegetables, beets, celery, chicory, apples, and spices like thyme, rosemary and curcuma. (Google is your friend) Juicing is great by the way!
- As for starches/energy: Brown rice is very good; potatoes aren't very bad but brown rice would be better; yet gluten must be avoided at all cost.
- High protein and/or high fat (health) foods like the nuts, peanut butter, steak, etc should definitely be eliminated for this week. A bit of olive oil, avocado OR fatty fish is more than enough for one day.

The aim should be to give your liver a complete break and support it with health foods.
I think there is a very decent chance that you'll start feeling more energetic within a matter of days.

PS / edit. Also, just quit all supplements and medication you can do without for this one week. (To prevent fillers etc from burdening your liver)
PPS / edit2. I forgot to mention sweating is fairly important too (to get rid of toxins); make sure you exercise a bit each day to the point that you break a decent sweat. (The goal is not to get very fatigued.)
PPPS / edit3. Dairy would preferably have to be avoided as well (as its high in protein and hormones, which both burden the liver)

Revision History (4 edits)
Damon  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:40pm
Damon  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 5:46pm
Damon  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 5:36pm
Damon  -  Saturday, August 11, 2012, 5:36pm
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DoS
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Quoted from D.L.
DoS - I just got home from the health food store. I bought aome biotin that is 3500 mcg per softgel. If I add that to my 400 mcg I already take, that should help with my nails, stomach, and my hair (which  I didn't mention has been "shedding").
     I also bought some milk-free probiotic acidophilus plus FOS, some power zymes full spectrum digestive enzymes, some bataine HCL plus pepsin, and some TSII thyroid balancing formula. Something has got to help!!!
     ABJoe - I wonder if baking the turkey or chicken in one of those baking bags like some folks do would help reduce the smell. Of course, I don't know what the bag is coated with. Might be bad.


I would do as I was saying, take about 8 of those softgells a day. That will be the equivalent of one egg yolk. Taking less won't do the same thing. It won't even be close. A healthy body probably produces somewhere between 40-90mg a day, that is 40,000-90,000mcg. That is when digestion is well.

Try it before you discount it. Taking small amounts is like taking nothing if what I think is going on, is going on.
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Lloyd
Saturday, August 11, 2012, 10:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from DoS


I would do as I was saying, take about 8 of those softgells a day. That will be the equivalent of one egg yolk. Taking less won't do the same thing. It won't even be close. A healthy body probably produces somewhere between 40-90mg a day, that is 40,000-90,000mcg. That is when digestion is well.

Try it before you discount it. Taking small amounts is like taking nothing if what I think is going on, is going on.


I find that for me, it is more important to take the biotin several times a day than taking larger doses.  Some use it for candida control and that may call for a larger dose, or if absorption is extremely poor I can see that as well.

The main point is 1000 mcg 3 times a day should result in more absoption than 5000 mcg once a day. At least that is my experience.
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DoS
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Either way, my point is to bring the body to levels that are similar to what it would naturally produce in order to help re-balance the intestines and especially bring a little equilibrium to prevent diabetes. It does a lot more than that, but those are the things you will notice. The rest will follow later.

I wouldn't get overly worried about spacing and stuff.
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Lloyd
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2722429
Quoted Text
Abstract
Single biotin doses (600 micrograms and 900 micrograms) orally administered to male and female volunteers were very rapidly eliminated from plasma after absorption leading to a remarkable increase of urinary excretion. A prolonged enhancement of plasma levels occurred only after continuous supplementation with 300 micrograms biotin/day for 1 week and following 900 micrograms biotin/day for another week. From the diurnal turnover of the plasma level after oral stimulation with 600 micrograms biotin some biokinetic indices, such as the constants of invasion and elimination rate as well as the elimination half life time were determined. The median of the invasion constant was calculated to 2.068 h-1, that one of elimination constant to 0.3867 h-1 suggesting no indication of diminished body stores. The elimination half life time of the administered biotin dose from plasma amounted to 1 hour, 50 minutes.



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Possum
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D.L. I can't stand the smell of fish canned or otherwise... Turkey, while cooking makes me feel icky too (must be an explorer thing?) I cook my turkey pieces overnight in a crockpot & if I wake up in the night they smell awful,but by morning are more appetising... There must be something, part way through the process?

Great post & advice re the biotin etc DOS in reply 9...
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D.L.
Sunday, August 12, 2012, 2:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks, everyone, for the great advice!!!! I appreciate your responses.
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DoS
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Lloyd that also doesn't account for people with very different function. Also I wouldn't seclude what it does in the body even if only for short of two hours. You won't believe it until you try it... I don't care how you try, all at once, or throughout the day.

Also considering poor digestion, yes, it is going to take more to even work for you.
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Lloyd
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Quoted from DoS
Lloyd that also doesn't account for people with very different function.


That's part of the point, actually.

Quoted from wikipedia
In general, biotin exists in food as protein-bound form or biocytin.[19] Proteolysis by protease is required prior to absorption.....

....Also, relatively low levels of biotin have been reported in the urine or plasma of patients who have had a partial gastrectomy or have other causes of achlorhydria, burn patients, epileptics, elderly individuals, and athletes.[20] ...

.... Biotinidase deficiency is not due to inadequate biotin, but rather to a deficiency in the enzymes that process it. Biotinidase catalyzes the cleavage of biotin from biocytin and biotinyl-peptides (the proteolytic degradation products of each holocarboxylase) and thereby recycles biotin.


Among the various things that could be considered.

If there is a specific reason to attempt to maintain (an extremely) high plasma level of biotin then it makes sense to mega-dose. If instead the issue is making use of the biotin once it enters the bloodstream then there is also the consideration of how much of the plasma concentration can actually be used in a given time period.

There are other arguments both ways, of course.

As I have already stated, my experience is that unless there is a specific reason to take exceptionally high levels in a brief time period, there is a clear benefit to splitting the dose for ingestion at multiple times during the day, and that a smaller total dosage can be effective using that method.

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D.L.
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Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
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So, does that mean I should take the 3500 mcg biotin softgels at different times and the B complex pill at a different time and the multi vitimin pill at a different time? Also, are there certain supplements that would hinder absorption if taken at the same time as the biotin, or certain ones that would help it absorb?
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