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Are all "avoids" created equal?  This thread currently has 2,807 views. Print Print Thread
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ibhipru
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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In the process of sorting out my beneficials, neutrals and avoids, I noted that some simply said "avoid" while others had specific warnings.  What is the difference between the two?  It almost seems as if the naked "AVOID" is an opinion rather than something based on science.  A friend who has followed this diet for years, ignores the naked "AVOIDS" and only eliminates those with stated warnings. He says he is doing just fine using that modified approach.

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Drea  -  Thursday, July 12, 2012, 2:52am
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Chloe
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 7:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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The most important foods you can eat are your beneficial foods....The more you can focus on your beneficials, the sooner you'll feel well.

As for avoids...they are simply foods that will make your body hold onto toxicity...Whether there is such a thing as a "naked" avoid, I've never heard that term before and I've followed this way of eating for 20+ years.

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to focus on eating your most beneficial foods. They are healing to your gut, your immune system and this will eventually get you focusing away from toxins...Eventually you won't feel well on toxins..and will probably want to avoid them entirely. Dr D has always said to focus on healing foods.

I personally think all avoids are toxins and should be treated the same.  Most of us who have
been eating this way for a long time rarely eat toxins if we can avoid them.  Even black dots are supposed to be eaten rarely.  People with health issues would really want to avoid toxins.


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Andrea AWsec
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Depends on how sick you are the sicker you are the more you need to pay attention. If your friend is not that sick or is a secretor he will be able to " get away"  with more avoids in his diet. One day it all catches up to us. Some at 50 some at 60 some later.

Some people are billy goats others are doves.

Looking for reasons they are avoids try the typebase.  http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/typeindexer.htm



MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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C_Sharp
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from ibhipru
In the process of sorting out my beneficials, neutrals and avoids, I noted that some simply said "avoid" while others had specific warnings.  What is the difference between the two?  It almost seems as if the naked "AVOID" is an opinion rather than something based on science.  A friend who has followed this diet for years, ignores the naked "AVOIDS" and only eliminates those with stated warnings. He says he is doing just fine using that modified approach.


Since whether a food item has comments is somewhat random in typebase you might want to consider other approaches to ranking avoids in the BTD:

---->Consider whether avoids in the BTD diet depending whether they are tier 1 or tier 2 avoids. These values are provided in this book:

http://www.4yourtype.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ED003




---->If you are treating a specific health condition consider  whether a food is a full avoid or a neutral allowed infrequently.

This information is presented in these books:

http://www.4yourtype.com/products.asp?dept=19





MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Lola
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Individualized is what Dr D is designing for each one of us

More information on SWAMI diets can be found at:
http://www.4yourtype.com/swamixp_video.asp
http://www.dadamo.com/media/swami.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/clinic/swamigenotype.htm
http://www.dadamo.com/media/gtd.htm
find out how food rates for you individually, given your personal variables.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 9:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No, avoids are not all created equal. But which avoids are the worst will vary from person to person.

For example, wheat is absolutely awful for me. I can get sick for a month if I eat it. I can even get sick from TOUCHING wheat, although that only lasts a few days. No other "avoid" affects me that way.

Meanwhile, my oldest daughter has no obvious reactions to wheat, but potatoes mess up her skin and cause sores in her mouth (because the skin in her mouth is weakened and then her braces create sores.) In some sort of emergency, I'd eat foods with potato ingredients before I'd eat wheat. She carefully avoids potatoes, but "cheats" on wheat more often than she should.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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chud
Thursday, July 12, 2012, 3:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You are right that avoids are not all created equal.
You will just have to find out which ones are the worst for you.

For me as an AB, it's chicken that is my top avoid; I get terrible heartburn if I eat it, and no other avoid on the AB list affects me as much.
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Mrs T O+
Thursday, July 12, 2012, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I seem to find that eating different avoids once rather than the same one a few times is less harmful (outwardly, at least).
For example, if I ate the same avoid 3 times in a week, I would start to feel it rather than 3 different avoids the same week.   Does that make sense?


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!
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gulfcoastguy
Thursday, July 12, 2012, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No not all avoids are the same. Chicken can give B's strokes and corn just does plain nasty things to our metabolism.
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san j
Friday, July 13, 2012, 5:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from gulfcoastguy
Chicken can give B's strokes .


But it usually doesn't.

Please direct us to the evidence that the ingestion of chicken causes a stroke in individuals with bloodtype B. I think it would be good to have that handy. Almost all B's in the world are eating chicken, so I'd expect to see proof that a large proportion of them are suffering stroke, moreso than those of other types, and that the stroke is directly linked to the ingestion of the chicken (since the other types, all over the world, are eating chicken, too). Thanks.  



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prunella
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 4:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hello to all!

I am new to this forum and have not yet introduced myself.  I have been unknowingly following BTD for about a year. I am O-, recently ID'd by swami as 40% GT2.  Secretor status is still a mystery.    I will test for that, but first need to adapt a bit more to the GT diet, as I eat very little meat and no poultry.


Thanks for addressing the question I had been trying to formulate! Essentially: are all avoids created equal?
I will continue to experiment, as ruthie suggests.  I have hopes that a small amount of soy will not condemn me to misery.

BTW, is there a part of the forum for newbies to introduce themselves?  I may have missed it.




The sun, with all those planets around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.

Galileo
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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 6:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The way I remember it is that a B is susceptible to a certain kind of stroke from eating chicken.

I don't know if I'm susceptible so I'm simply being cautious and eliminate eating chicken altogether.
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chud
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 7:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I tend to agree with NewHampshireGirl and gulfcoastguy.
I believe that chicken contributes to strokes, though I have no proof.  
It is a really nasty avoid for B's and AB's.  
Dr D says that chicken causes agglutination in the blood for us, which would make sense that it could lead to stroke.  
Since stroke runs on both sides of my family, my plan is to avoid it like the plague.  It gives me terrible heartburn anyway, so I don't miss it.

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gulfcoastguy
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 8:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I believe that I read it on both the Eat Right for Your Type book and the Live Right for Your Type book. I don't remember it being mentioned in the GTD book but "out of an abundance of caution" I'll treat it the same. I decided a long time ago that I was going to have to take somethings on faith.
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san j
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 9:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from san j


But it usually doesn't.

Please direct us to the evidence that the ingestion of chicken causes a stroke in individuals with bloodtype B. I think it would be good to have that handy. Almost all B's in the world are eating chicken, so I'd expect to see proof that a large proportion of them are suffering stroke, moreso than those of other types, and that the stroke is directly linked to the ingestion of the chicken (since the other types, all over the world, are eating chicken, too). Thanks.  



I asked for evidence. A reference. What I was given were statements of "faith" in one's own "belief".

I think it behooves us to use language in such a way as to say only what we mean, and to mean only what we know, qualifying our statements in some responsible way. "Taking on faith" that what almost all Bs of the world eat without a consequent stroke DOES "cause strokes" is the kind of Belief that renders Dr. D'Adamo's work impossible for your listeners/readers to take seriously. Chicken-eating Asians are not dropping from strokes at some alarming rate, in spite of your "belief". If they were, an investigation of this phenomenon would be definitely called for.

I would like people to look into the work of Dr. D'Adamo. I would like them to consider their blood type, factoring it into their health management programs. I would not like them to walk away finding my "beliefs" inexplicable and wacky. "Chicken causes strokes" is a serious statement. But "Chicken has been proved to be associated with pathological blood clots in type B individuals" (if indeed proved) would be a more responsible and credible alternative, both in presenting the diet to prospects and in conversing with newbies and fellow adherents.
IMO.


EDIT/PS.
I was just thinking, "If Peter D'Adamo himself were to say to me 'Chicken Causes Stroke in Type B', I would similarly ask him for evidence for such a flat statement."
I turned to his books, owning them all as I do.
I found a reference, in Eat Right 4 Your Type, to a clinical case of his, in which the elderly patient had a lifelong diet consisting of chicken with buckwheat twice a day, plus corn and "avoid" beans. Dr. D'Adamo writes, "The lectins in foods such as chicken, buckwheat, beans, and corn...were causing the cells of his blood to agglutinate, and that was probably a major factor in his stroke."

Apparently Dr. D'Adamo has followers with greater "faith" than he does that "Chicken Causes Strokes". He seems to believe that its lectins combined with other lectins and ingested daily into old age were "probably" a "factor" in this single patient's stroke.
I have looked at his later books (Live Right 4 Your Type, Cardiovascular Disease: Fight it with the Blood Type Diet, and the foods index in CBTE) finding only in the second of those books reference to the possibility of fat metabolism being affected by lectins found in chicken, and the fact that it is a methionine-rich food, methionine perhaps being related to higher homocysteine "in some individuals".
Wow. That's still a far cry from "Chicken Causes Stroke". And why "stroke" only? Are you unaware that homocysteine and fat metabolism are implicated in atherosclerosis in general, most of which does not eventuate in full-blown stroke?

If Peter D'Adamo is not -to my knowledge- on record stating it, why do you all "believe" in it. What are you "taking on faith"? Your own belief!

Okay. But don't call that sort of legalism "The BTD". Call it your own personal belief, of which Dr. D'Adamo's work is (as he says) "probably" a "factor".  



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san j  -  Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:44pm
san j  -  Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 9:54pm
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Spring
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I thought it was arrhythmia that chicken caused in B's. I have a friend who is on the diet and if they eat chicken they will have arrhythmia. It makes them feel terrible besides. I can relate to that because it makes me feel awful too!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And the lectins in chicken are only the beginning of the bad stuff concerning chicken.  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Dr. D. suggests that A-types are more susceptible to heart problems than others. I have another friend who is now a nurse practitioner with an advanced degree who used to work as a nurse in the heart unit at a major hospital. One night she decided to see just how many of the folks in there were A-types. (She was familiar with Dr. D.'s diets.) There were multiple dozens of patients in there and all of them were A-types except two O-types! So I tend to take Dr. D.'s "suggestions" seriously!! I "seriously" don't want serious heart problems!  


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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NewHampshireGirl
Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 11:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I understand the need to verify.  I looked up Bs and chicken on the internet approx. 10 to 13 years ago and found a scientific study on this topic that corroborated the fact that stroke in B blood type can indeed be caused by chicken.   There are probably more studies to be found but I don't have the inclination to search further in 2012.  I know that Dr. D. does plenty of research and he is privy to more studies than I know how to find.

San J, why don't you do your own research, if you have the time.  Perhaps you will find answers that will satisfy you.  It's too bad I didn't print out what I found back then but I was only trying to corroborate what I was reading in Dr. D's first two books.  I was just satisfying myself that the blood type diet as spelled out by Dr. D'Adamo was the right approach.
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san j
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 12:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
Dr. D. suggests that A-types are more susceptible to heart problems than others. I have another friend who is now a nurse practitioner with an advanced degree who used to work as a nurse in the heart unit at a major hospital. One night she decided to see just how many of the folks in there were A-types. (She was familiar with Dr. D.'s diets.) There were multiple dozens of patients in there and all of them were A-types except two O-types! So I tend to take Dr. D.'s "suggestions" seriously!! I "seriously" don't want serious heart problems!  


This is not a mere suggestion of Dr. D'Adamo's. There is evidence with respect to Blood Type A and cardiovascular risk. You "tend to take Dr. D's 'suggestions' seriously" because there is scientific evidence (that your friend was able to anecdotally corroborate one night at work re: patients currently being treated there).

But to lead a B person about to eat a piece of chicken to believe that this act could land him/her in the hospital with a stroke... is something else, and I'm asking for evidence of such a notion. Absent that, at least be sure Dr. D'Adamo is on record saying that eating chicken causes Bs to have strokes. I'm asking you to tell me where he's written that, and no one has come up with it. A simple and (thank you NH girl -"I understand the need to verify.") understandable request.

The fact is, people are parroting this here as if it were Common Knowledge, readily accessible to all who have read his books. And I think that's irresponsible. Someone's got to advocate for the newbie arriving here and wondering about this stuff, reading these quasi-factoids, logging-off and saying to her 93-year-old B grandma who's eaten chicken all her life, "They're wacko." If they call Dr. D'Adamo that (and some do  ) when he DOES provide evidence, then how are you "selling" his work, by citing your "beliefs" as if they were gospel chapter and verse?

In the interest of a better website, more credibly reflecting the work of a bona fide scientist: Qualify your statements. Dr. D'Adamo certainly does!  



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Spring
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As far as I'm concerned, chicken doesn't have a leg to stand on in regard to being something worthwhile to eat to make one healthy. Yes, we could survive a few decades on it probably, many of us have, but I know now that it would make me miserable, and I know others who have the same problem with it that are not my blood type. I didn't even need Dr. D. to tell me that I shouldn't eat the stuff anymore. I had already stopped eating it before the GENO diet came out because I felt exhausted all the time.

Doctors tell people who become diabetic in their last years to stop eating a whole world of foods. So it isn't as if that is anything new. My DFIL was in that situation. It was a horrible balancing act to try to make his last days a little enjoyable by having him eat some of the things he loved and being terrified that he would go into a diabetic coma. He died with brain cancer. My DMIL was very wise in the way she handled it, and it wasn't altogether by the doctor's orders.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Spring
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http://www.dadamo.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1317327325/
Replies #8 and #9 are interesting about chicken. And #14.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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san j
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 1:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Chicken is a black dot for Nomads.  


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gulfcoastguy
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My interpretation of black dot is something that if it can't be avoided is okay once in a blue moon. Say no more than once a month. As I said that is my interpretation, opinions vary.
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san j
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from gulfcoastguy
My interpretation of black dot is something that if it can't be avoided is okay once in a blue moon. Say no more than once a month. As I said that is my interpretation, opinions vary.


I believe that the "once a month or so" idea is or approximates Dr. D'Adamo's intent. I don't know about the "if it can't be avoided", however. Anchovy would be, for instance, another black dot and, like most black dots, is not difficult to avoid! But there are people who choose not to avoid them, and the black dot says, "That's cool." i.e., it's more negotiable.
On the GTD, the Avoids are to be avoided.  



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