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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  which is worse?
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which is worse?  This thread currently has 1,099 views. Print Print Thread
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D.L.
Friday, May 25, 2012, 5:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
Ee Dan
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Location: Jackson, Mississippi
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Just wondering if farm-raised catfish are actually any worse than the beef we buy from the grocery stores. I know we are supposed to eat wild-caught fish and organic beef but if you can't get either, which should you pick?
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Andrea AWsec
Friday, May 25, 2012, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI INFJ Warrior Taster
Kyosha Nim
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You have beef on your  SWAMI?

You are an A right?


MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo
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Kibble
Friday, May 25, 2012, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I've read that farm raised from the US is ok but to avoid the foreign farm raised catfish.  I'm sure you can google and get specific information.
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Lola
Friday, May 25, 2012, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
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make the best out of what you have.....


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Conor
Friday, May 25, 2012, 6:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1 52%+GT4 ST INTJ E7
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Quoted from D.L.
Just wondering if farm-raised catfish are actually any worse than the beef we buy from the grocery stores. I know we are supposed to eat wild-caught fish and organic beef but if you can't get either, which should you pick?

Hi D.L., first, I'd categorize the foods in question according to their superfood vs. neutral status, i.e., if one or the other is better rated, I'd tend to go with it. All things being equal, then I'd check the food source (actually, I'd check the source no matter what, but I already probably skew toward certain OCD personality traits ).

For example, Laura's Lean Beef brand of beef isn't organic, but the conditions in which the cattle are raised for market are significantly better than, say, typical feedlot-raised beef. Also, Whole Foods Market (WFM) sells farm-raised catfish. The main differences with their catfish (opposed to what you'll find in a conventional grocery store) are (1) WFM worked in conjunction with their suppliers to develop a 'floating' feed, so that the catfish aren't feeding off of the bottom of the stock ponds, and (2) WFM performs random inspections of its suppliers' fisheries to ensure that growing conditions are compliant with vendor agreement standards. I don't know of any conventional grocery retailers that perform spot inspections such as this (maybe some do, I just don't know).

Anyhow, for me the bottom line is being as well educated as possible about the true source and growing conditions of the food I'm going to eat ... even if it annoys one of the counter people, or it takes more of my time for them to find out a straight answer. Good luck. (:



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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gulfcoastguy
Friday, May 25, 2012, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

B to Bnonnie to Nomad, the journey continues
Kyosha Nim
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Well just looking at the GTD book catfish is a diamond for explorers and the only beef that is a diamond is calf liver or soup bone. If that is farm raised Mississipppi catfish I'd choose it as long as it isn't cornmeal battered and fried in a noncomplient oil.
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D.L.
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
Ee Dan
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Thanks, all. No, beef isn't on my Swami. Certain kinds of fish are. I have always hated fish and am painstakenly trying to eat some. Even smelling them cooking makes me nauseated. My husband eats both beef and fish, when I can get him to eat. He is not on any particular diet. I'm just glad he is finally putting on some weight after extensive mouth surgery. He was getting very, very skinny. But I've heard that farm-raised fish contain a lot of stuff we shouldn't eat because of what they are fed. On the other hand, feed-lot beef is also fed stuff they/we shouldn't eat, too, hence the question. I don't like beef, anyway, unless it is hidden in mustard, catsup, mayo, and pickles on bread, or in spaghetti sauce, all of which I can't eat because of gluten allergies and Swami avoids. If I had to kill and dress my meat, I couldn't do it because I love animals. I pretty much gag on fish. So I have been eating some chicken. At least I can have most vegetables, nuts, seeds, and fruits, if I balance the blood sugar from rising. No dairy, eggs, gluten, etc. Getting complete protein is a challenge, as I cannot digest rice nor most beans. Eating is ... well, not particularly fun.
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C_Sharp
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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Quoted from D.L.
So I have been eating some chicken.


Don't forget ostrich and turkey.


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
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Conor
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
Eating is ... well, not particularly fun.

Sounds like you have the SWAMI Xpress software(?), and am just wondering if you've tried the meal planning/recipe applet that you have access to as part of SWAMI? To maybe get some new ideas for recipes and/or meal planning ... to assist you and, hopefully, help you find some enjoyment in planning your/your family's meals again (and, let's not forget the really important part of the process: eating the food ).

Just so that it all doesn't seem like such a chore while you're trying to implement positive changes.



Compliant, me?!? ... I even attended a university whose mascot is one of my ◆ Superfoods!
What is food to one man is bitter poison to others. ~ Titus Lucretius Carus
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ABJoe
Friday, May 25, 2012, 11:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
No dairy, eggs, gluten, etc. Getting complete protein is a challenge, as I cannot digest rice nor most beans. Eating is ... well, not particularly fun.

Sounds like you need to keep healing your digestive tract and getting the flora balanced again...

I try to focus on beneficial foods.  Once I know what beneficial foods are available, I get the best quality of each I can afford.  This is working pretty well.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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DoS
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 12:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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No A will ever have beef on their SWAMI.

I don't even like it much anymore at all. Lamb though... oh I love it.
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Victoria
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 3:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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D.L., I second the suggestion for you to eat turkey.  Beef will do you NO good.  Why even try to force yourself to eat it?  If you really hate fish, try some other forms.  Have you eaten canned fish, maybe made into patties or tossed with a beautiful salad?  

Look at your personal food list and really examine how you might choose one or two and prepare them in such a way that you could enjoy them.

Can you eat eggs?  Are there cheeses on your food list?  What about soy foods - such as tofu or tempeh?



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Spring
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from D.L.
I pretty much gag on fish. So I have been eating some chicken. At least I can have most vegetables, nuts, seeds, and fruits, if I balance the blood sugar from rising. No dairy, eggs, gluten, etc. Getting complete protein is a challenge, as I cannot digest rice nor most beans. Eating is ... well, not particularly fun.


I feel so sad for you, D.L..    I enjoy my food so much! I had a hard time on the GENO diet because of the bean deal, and chicken was not making me feel well, either. For some reason I didn't enjoy cooking fish unless I knew it was right out of the water - oh, that was delicious! But I don't have chicken on SWAMI, and I am so glad. Certain fish I can enjoy now and lots of turkey! I can have cottage cheese which I have always loved. And I love tons of vegetables, both cooked and raw! And fruit!!

Maybe it would help if you mixed up a good sauce or dressing you could pour over some of those things that don't appeal to you. Any little change can make a big difference to me in how much I enjoy a meal! I do hope you can work things out that will make your food something to look forward to!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Goldie
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 5:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
getting complete protein is a challenge, as I cannot digest rice nor most beans. Eating is ... well, not particularly fun.


I am not A so no advise .. yet I would expect that there is some underlying issue, away from food that is causing issues.  WHY can you not eat ? or why can you not digest? where in the intestines exactly does certain food bother you?  How long following BTD?

I have met other A's that are making WAY to much out of I 'can't' eat.. Like they had really bad experiences in life with food, and it now is as much a mental issue as it is real..

Normally three month on super beneficials or Beneficial foods ought to fix the intestines, so why still the severe issues?  Just saying that you 'react' is not enough _I would want to know a lot more..   Because if you can not tolerate foods for a long time you will a) get worse, and B) get more sensitive..

I am not judging here nor wish to make you feel as If I was judgmental, yet, ill advised food THOUGHTS can make a big difference.  This even if true, does not mean it is not REAL for you.

I just say, what about this? Could there be hidden motives or hidden pleasure in being 'sensitive'.. could it be from wrongful foods fed in childhood?  From something other than food?   I would be worried about getting enough food VALUE.. but I am O..

How is your overall health?  I wish you well..      


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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D.L.
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 2:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
Ee Dan
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I get bad sinus headaches and post nasal drip and elevated pulse from anything with gluten (wheat, rye, barley, etc). Quinoa (spelling?) and oatmeal do me the same way. I tried oatmeal again this morning as a test. Same thing. I'm not allergic to rice, but it doesn't digest well, probably due to low stomach acid of an A. Same way with most beans, although no problem with string beans. Maybe it's starches in general. Dairy gives me stomach trouble, sinus headaches, and post-nasal drip. Same with soy. I love eggs, but my pulse goes up to 125 if I eat any. Sunflower seeds & oil break my tongue and throat out in big itchy welts. A LOT of foods, even almond milk, contain sunflower something. My grown children are still allergic to dairy, gluten, eggs, and one to corn. My IgG blood test also said avoid eggs, gluten and many of the same things that are on my Swami avoid, such as bananas, strawberries, and oranges, but some others also. I used to eat a lot of bananas and orange juice. Then there is the problem of being borderline diabetic. Rice and certain other foods raise my blood sugar, which contributes to my high triglycerides.
My blood tests say my liver is no longer inflamed, my blood count is good, kidneys are good. Cholesterol still too high but I'm working on it. Hormones are on the floor but the doctor won't give me bio-identical hormones. Says I don't need any, since I'm not "having any symptoms", and I have bad varicose veins, a risk for thrombosis.  Hospital tests show my heart is enlarged, leaky valve, left ventricle not pumping right. I attribute that to a bad virus a year ago. I also have a lot of allergies to molds, pollen, and chemicals.
And yes,I ate wrong foods as a child. Ate everything. Always sick. Bad earaches. Swollen tonsils, etc. And I was exposed to Malathion a lot as a teen because grove owners sprayed the orange groves around my house from the air. It has a shelf life longer than the average person lives, and research says it causes all kinds of health problems. I wouldn't be surprised if my leaky gut problems were compounded by 48 years of drinking lots of cola soft drinks and eating gluten.
Now,I mostly eat nuts, various greens, some fruits and chicken, occasionally turkey, and take some supplements. I haven't been on Swami very long yet, and it's only been a year since I found out my IgG residual food results. Sure hoping to heal my gut. I can actually almost see one of my fingerprints now. Funny thing - when I used to drink colas, it seemed like the acid in the colas helped me digest foods. But the tanic acids in teas broke my mouth out in canker sores, instead.
      
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Spring
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 3:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh, my.... Whatever it takes you need to heal your digestion. I wonder why you can't have bananas.. Can you have sweet potatoes? Is there some reason why you don't have turkey more often?


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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ABJoe
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Healing the gut takes time.  Are you taking any probiotics?

Are you able to eat raw vegetables and fruits to get the enzymes?

Being able to start seeing a fingerprint is progress, so what you are doing is helping.  Just keep doing it or do more of it, if possible.  Once the gut is healed, I think many of the sensitivities to beneficial or neutral foods will pass and you'll be able to expand your diet to that extent.  

I accept that I will never eat avoid foods again, just like I don't add other poisons to my diet...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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ABJoe
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 3:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spring
Whatever it takes you need to heal your digestion. I wonder why you can't have bananas.. Can you have sweet potatoes? Is there some reason why you don't have turkey more often?

It is my understanding that proteins require an acid to break them down, but sugars/starches requires more enzymes...  It is possible that in D.L.'s case, the acid is OK, but she may be lacking the enzymes.  Hence my question as to whether she is eating raw vegetables or fruits.  It is possible that after years of very little raw food, the pancreas doesn't have any more stored enzymes and she may need to supplement some enzymes for a while to restart the process...


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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D.L.
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 4:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
Ee Dan
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Spring - bananas and sweet potatoes are both on my Swami avoid list. Bananas are also on my IgG blood test avoid list. As far as turkey, if I cook it, the smell makes me sick. (Same with fish.) I think it is an aversion to the smell of fat cooking. I've had that problem since a child. Have always had problems digesting animal fat since a child. Mom's meatloaf was so greasy the thought of even eating meatloaf today turns my stomach. If I buy turkey pre-cooked at a deli or in a package, it is full of salt (even low-sodium), and preservatives. If I could only find someone to cook a whole one for me at their place where I couldn't smell it cooking ... hehe.
ABJoe - yes, most of the vegetables I eat raw, esp. in salads. I never cook the fruits I eat. I take probiotics when I remember. They're in the fridge. I should remember every day.
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D.L.
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 4:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Explorer Swami 44%, INTJ, Haplo Kla2a
Ee Dan
Posts: 567
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Age: 68
ABJoe - Thanks. That could very well be one of the problems. I just bought some digestive enzymes. Papaya and pineapple are both on my IgG avoid list but are on my beneficial Swami list. I'm going to try the pineapple-derived enzymes for a while. I haven't had pineapple for a year.
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Spring
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 4:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Explorer
Ee Dan
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Quoted from D.L.
ABJoe - yes, most of the vegetables I eat raw, esp. in salads. I never cook the fruits I eat. I take probiotics when I remember. They're in the fridge. I should remember every day.

I wonder if the condition of your stomach is why there is so much aversion to the smell of certain foods. I know if I forget my probiotics, it doesn't take long for my stomach to start reminding me!! In more ways than one!! So put a big note on the fridge to remind you to take them! I think this, along with ABJoe's suggestion about the enzymes, will make a huge difference in your whole outlook.


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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ABJoe
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 7:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from D.L.
If I could only find someone to cook a whole one for me at their place where I couldn't smell it cooking ... hehe.

ABJoe - yes, most of the vegetables I eat raw, esp. in salads. I never cook the fruits I eat. I take probiotics when I remember. They're in the fridge. I should remember every day.

One thing we do to get around the initial smell of the turkey cooking is to make it all ready and just start the oven, or start it to come on once we are gone, then go to bed or out of the house to an event or ??? and come back when the turkey is almost done, so it smells really good in the house...

You could also start it, then go work in the yard, etc...

I've taken a snip from a pretty good, but short article on enzymes for digestion.  Amylase is the primary enzyme used for processing sugar:
Honey is considered the best source of amylase, according to Klement; but not just any honey will do. It has to be not only raw, but contain pollen, royal jelly and propolis. A spoonful of honey eaten with meals high in starches may prevent bouts of acid reflux and other unwanted symptoms of indigestion.


I've used this enzyme supplement to rebuild my pancreas:
http://store.ourhealthcoop.com/Pancreatic-Enzymes-p/pev.htm


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer

Revision History (2 edits)
ABJoe  -  Saturday, May 26, 2012, 8:01pm
ABJoe  -  Saturday, May 26, 2012, 7:59pm
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yaeli
Sunday, May 27, 2012, 5:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have heard of the protein Quorn for the first time in the Quron thread that Jenny opened. Have you heard about it? Maybe you could have it in the meantime, or for a long time.



Revision History (2 edits)
yaeli  -  Sunday, May 27, 2012, 6:09am
yaeli  -  Sunday, May 27, 2012, 6:08am
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ruthiegirl
Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Here's how I'd catagorize things:

"Avoid" foods are a definite no-no. Even if I could get organic, top quality food, if that food is an avoid for me, quality won't make a difference. For example, I can easily obtain organic tofu, but it's an "avoid" for me (and for at least 3 members of my family.) So I don't buy it, period.

Clearly, I'd buy organic, grass-fed beef if I could afford it- but I can't. I buy the beef I can afford, because my health suffers when I don't eat enough red meat. I buy the poultry I can afford as well- which also happens to be the grain-fed kind. Once again, I don't do well without enough animal protein in my diet. All things being equal, I select the turkey (bennie) over the chicken(neutral), and I always buy the best quality I can afford.

Where it gets complicated would be if I had access to organic, free-range chicken (neutral) or grain-fed turkey (beneficial.) Let's further assume they're the same price, and that my type B son (for whom chicken is an avoid) wasn't eating it with us. THAT would be a tough question, and I'm not sure which one I'd choose.

In your case DL, I would suggest you eat more poultry along with trying to find fish that you don't mind so much.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah , 18yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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Kibble
Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 6:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The only fish I really enjoy is Icelandic Premium Center-Cut Cod Loins.  They are not fishy tasting or smelly and are steak like, not all mushy.  
I usually simmer in a little water then add butter or olive oil on my plate and salt or seasoning.  Cod is beneficial for everyone on the BTD.
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