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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Is the blood type diet scientific? Concerns...*
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Is the blood type diet scientific? Concerns...*  This thread currently has 10,840 views. Print Print Thread
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wrotek
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 9:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Dx borreliosis, 4 strains of bacterium
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Quoted from Dr. D


The last paragraph in the blog says that the most common issue with non-responders is that they have their ABO type wrong. This is a common finding in our clinic as well. That should fit your concept of a wrong diet.

So if person is typed wrong, can he die from wrong transfusion ?
50% error is a lot when we are talking about life and death.
Mine blood was typed in a hospital, hope they did a good job


Diagnosed with Lyme Disease - Borreliosis . 4 strains
Bartonella antibodies only in IgG now present.

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wrotek
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 9:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Dx borreliosis, 4 strains of bacterium
Summer: Realization, expansion.
Posts: 80
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Location: Poland, Wroclaw
Age: 30
Quoted from Andrea AWsec
Research a bit on lectins--- and you will learn how foods are tested. Petri dishes are used for cultures--

http://www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl/Lectinology


ok


Diagnosed with Lyme Disease - Borreliosis . 4 strains
Bartonella antibodies only in IgG now present.
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Patty H
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 4:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Having followed the diet very strictly for over a year, I saw very little difference.  In fact, some of my blood tests actually got worse.  I fully admit that I started a medication which could have negatively affected my blood tests, however, the main reason I went on the BTD/GTD was to reduce my blood pressure and cholesterol.  Unfortunately, neither of these were positively impacted by the diet.

What I have come to lately is more balance in my diet.  If I want dairy, I try to eat only the best quality dairy, like yogurt rich in probiotics and I don't eat it all the time.  If I want wheat, I try to eat whole grain bread from a local bakery as opposed to mass-produced bread.  If I go out to a restaurant, I try to order something that keeps me mostly compliant.  I don't cheat all the time mostly because the habits instilled with following the BTD/GTD are well ingrained in me by now.

I still eat organic fruits and veggies, wild-caught fish and grass-fed meat.  However, I have stopped worrying about the negative impacts of a few high-quality cheats here and there.  This balance helps to reduce stress that can be a part of any strict diet.

I would also like to remind folks that because of my rare blood antigen, I am considered a minor blood group.  And yes, I have had my blood type tested and retested - first by the Army and second by the American Red Cross - because of my rare blood antigen.  It is my understanding that lectin theory has NOT been tested on the minor blood groups, so the lectin theory is applied with a broad brush to the major blood groups, which makes sense.

I think maybe I fall into that 20% rule and I am glad to know that the 80/20 rule applies because it explains a lot in my case.


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Spring
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 5:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I remember a noted nutritionist saying that in her practice she would not even attempt to write a diet for anyone on a diuretic.  Other drugs can mess things up almost as bad. Or even an overload of certain supplements.....


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Patty H
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Quoted from Spring
I remember a noted nutritionist saying that in her practice she would not even attempt to write a diet for anyone on a diuretic.  Other drugs can mess things up almost as bad. Or even an overload of certain supplements.....


Dr. Nash was able to incorporate my use of the prescribed diuretic to counter the negative side effects of it.  Fortunately, with exercise, I was able to lower my blood pressure and come off the diuretic.  However, my cholesterol went right back to the same values as before I began taking it, despite following the diet.

Also, living with a household of all O's, I believe that my husband and daughter fit much more neatly into the typical type O 80% rule.  Our daughter was recently diagnosed with gluten intolerance and coffee intolerance.  My husband has had psoriasis or some other skin rash for years.  He also has had two joints replaced due to arthritis.  The jury is still out on our son.  Funny thing is though, our daughter does have my rare blood antigen, but she is a secretor, like her dad.


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Chloe
Saturday, April 28, 2012, 8:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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I think defining the term "scientific" needs to be properly understood. "Science" isn't provable.
I found this article interesting:

Words have precise meanings in science. For example, 'theory', 'law', and 'hypothesis' don't all mean the same thing. Outside of science, you might say something is 'just a theory', meaning it's supposition that may or may not be true. In science, a theory is an explanation that generally is accepted to be true. Here's a closer look at these important, commonly misused terms.

Hypothesis
A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.

Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.

Theory
A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

Example: It is known that on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska, Siberia, there was an explosion equivalent to the detonation of about 15 million tons of TNT. Many hypotheses have been proposed for what caused the explosion. It is theorized that the explosion was caused by a natural extraterrestrial phenomenon, and was not caused by man. Is this theory a fact? No. The event is a recorded fact. Is this this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

Law
A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the description gives you a means to explain 'why'.

Example: Consider Newton's Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn't explain why it happened.

As you can see, there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. The closest we get are facts, which are indisputable observations. Note, however, if you define proof as arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the evidence, then there is 'proof' in science. I work under the definition that to prove something implies it can never be wrong, which is different. If you're asked to define hypothesis, theory, and law, keep in mind the definitions of proof and of these words can vary slightly depending on the scientific discipline. What is important is to realize they don't all mean the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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DoS
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 12:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

L (a-b+); Slight-Taster; INFJ; Warrior
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This all goes back to the issue of people reading old lies, old mis-informed, piss poor journalism floating around. It gets repeated like it is common knowledge only a fool wouldn't know... Not that long ago people would of scoffed at you if you claimed birds migrated; you where just wrong everyone knew they hibernated underground.

Reality is while not proven using all standards possible, the conclusion end to create applicable treatment is substantiated by a lot of information. Ignoring this information to exists, and claiming there for the BTD/GTD work is just pulled out of thin air, is "like your opinion, maannn"; not anything we could consider relevant to temporal reality.
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Dr. D
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 10:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Science is a way of thinking and investigation. Something is 'scientific' if it follows these prescribed methods; it is not some sort of label you give or take away from something based upon your opinion or level of understanding.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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yaeli
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 1:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Patty H
Having followed the diet very strictly for over a year, I saw very little difference.  In fact, some of my blood tests actually got worse.
Back in ER4YT I read, and I take it as a rule, that in compliance, it takes the body 1 month for each non-compliant year of life to rehab.  




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NancyEllen
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 1:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well that will be 4 and a half years of compliance for me, Yaeli!  


“He who is of calm and happy nature will hardly feel the pressure of age, but to him who is of an opposite disposition youth and age are equally a burden.”  Plato
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yaeli
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 1:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Gatherer / Taster / ISFJ
Ee Dan
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Compliant and Happy!  


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Maus
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

40% Hunter
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I used to worry about that too.  Because every diet out there has their scientific proof.  But after a while going back and forth to other diets plans or no diet plans, I keep finding more and more points that this diet plan keeps hitting the nail on its head.  My body feels best with this diet.  At the very least it can't hurt to give it a try.  
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Chloe
Sunday, April 29, 2012, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

42% Teacher Rh+ N1, N1b
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Maus
I used to worry about that too.  Because every diet out there has their scientific proof.  But after a while going back and forth to other diets plans or no diet plans, I keep finding more and more points that this diet plan keeps hitting the nail on its head.  My body feels best with this diet.  At the very least it can't hurt to give it a try.  


Can I please ask you to be specific.  Which diets are you speaking about that are scientifically proven?  Proven to do what?  


"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"
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Eric
Monday, April 30, 2012, 9:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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As a skeptic by nature and a strong advocate of the BTD, I find this sort of conversation exhilarating   

I don't want to say too much about the documentary, but Steven Novella, one of the world's top skeptics, has agreed to an interview to discuss his views on naturopathic medicine.   I think instead of fearing these people, we should embrace them and guide them toward relevant information.  We may not convince them over night, but it'll surely happen faster by opening up the subject for rational debate.

Just my take.


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grey rabbit
Monday, April 30, 2012, 11:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

swamix 47% Teacher-INFP
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The science behind many fad diets is the first law of thermodynamics, it is difficult to get over that and realize there is more to it. One of the great videos that's gone viral lately is this one, where Dr. Lustig explains why the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to the consumption of food.

I used the GenoType Diet to develop a "Health Improvement Plan" for my nutrition class. I was very impressed with how the plan completed all the essential nutrient requirements with ease. I also received a 100% on the semester long project, my professor was equally impressed.

This diet has been easy to follow, has provided me with great health (my CBC came back with very impressive #s) and I feel that the "proof is in the pudding".


“Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It’s perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we’ve learned something from yesterday.”

John Wayne's last words
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Jane
Monday, April 30, 2012, 4:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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When I first came to the BTD back in the mid 90s, I was really sick.  I had just been diagnosed with Inflammatory Bowel Disease (ulcerative colitis) and my gastroenterologist had me on a diet that was basically white bread and some meat....no veggies or or fruits or even juices....
I found the BTD and never looked back.  I eat all kinds of veggies and clean meats and NO white bread.  My symptoms, which were quite severe at the time have been held in check.  
All I know is that it works.  
I'm probably not the most compliant of followers.  I eat way too much cheese (even if it is goat cheese) and don't follow portions as much as I should.  I also eat too many eggs too.  
I never eat wheat (and for the past year or so any other gluten), try to avoid corn to the best of my ability....it may sneak in on the occasion that I'm out to dinner with friends or family, and always buy the cleanest meat and veggies that I can afford.  
From my perspective, the proof is in the pudding - it works!
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Patty H
Monday, April 30, 2012, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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Quoted from yaeli
Back in ER4YT I read, and I take it as a rule, that in compliance, it takes the body 1 month for each non-compliant year of life to rehab.  



Rehab from what?


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SandrAruba
Monday, April 30, 2012, 6:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Damon
I have done two home tests, and one lab (blood)test; the results were unambiguous. The Warrior profile description (i.e. characteristics like facial flushing) actually describe me pretty well. That was also a reason I initially got convinced the BTD held some truth. I still do believe in the existence of different genotypes etc, but feel the dietary implications are far too exaggerated.


Damon,
You should determine by measuring if you are a Warrior or not, not go by the description. Furthermore as a Warrior you are allowed lamb which is red meat. I eat it every now and then.

I do believe that an A can also be an explorer which has some meat in their diet. I am not sure about the Genotype, but someone else here will surely know. So perhaps you are not a Warrior. Redo the measurements with someone to assist you perhaps you typed yourself wrong (especially if you only went by the description).




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ABJoe
Monday, April 30, 2012, 6:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from SandrAruba
I do believe that an A can also be an explorer which has some meat in their diet. I am not sure about the Genotype, but someone else here will surely know.

Type A can be Teacher, Warrior, or Explorer Genotypes.  Yes, Teacher and Explorer generally get more meat than Warrior.


RH-, ISTJ
Wonderful Wife = A+ Teacher; Darling Daughter = A- SWAMI Explorer
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DoS
Monday, April 30, 2012, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've never seen a study that shows that the FDA food pyramid (thing) conclusively provides health for everyone, to the extent which people are asking the BTD/GTD be tested. Maybe it is out there and I am ignorant of it, but it appears to be assembled in the same manner as the BTD/GTD; based on what we do know, not what we've proven.

Maybe it is just me, but the weight of that idea is astronomical to me.
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Patty H
Monday, April 30, 2012, 8:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER L(a+b-) NMg Prop Super Taster ENFP
Ee Dan
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I think the entire argument is ridiculous.  What diet out there has had double blind studies performed comparing the specific diet to another way of eating and measuring the health improvements of the people involved?

I don't think any of the current list of popular diets can claim that they have been scientifically studied to be superior to other diet theories.

Is the same argument used to discredit the Paleo Diet?  The Atkins Diet?  The Scarsdale Diet?  The Rosedale Diet? The Primal Diet? The Perfect Gene Diet?  The list goes on and on of diets that have not been scientifically studied.  Nor can one argue that these diets don't have some scientific basis behind them.  

The back cover of The Dash Diet states that it was developed through research entitled the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) and was sponsored by the U.S. National Institutes of Health.  The ironic thing is that this diet allows the dieter to eat things like Wheaties, All-Bran cereal and other low sugar/high fiber cereals, pasta, frozen pizza crusts, corn or flour tortillas, margarine, artificially sweetened  yogurt, egg substitutes, etc.

Does this diet, which has been sponsored by the National Institutes of Health look healthy to any of you?


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Victoria
Monday, April 30, 2012, 8:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from SandrAruba


Damon,
You should determine by measuring if you are a Warrior or not, not go by the description. Furthermore as a Warrior you are allowed lamb which is red meat. I eat it every now and then.

I do believe that an A can also be an explorer which has some meat in their diet. I am not sure about the Genotype, but someone else here will surely know. So perhaps you are not a Warrior. Redo the measurements with someone to assist you perhaps you typed yourself wrong (especially if you only went by the description).


Also knowing secretor status is important.  Many meats that are avoid for secretors become neutral if a person is a non-secretor.  And non-secretors are recommended a greater frequency per week.  This is just the BTD, not even taking into account what the genotype is.

It's really necessary to do the detailed measurements in order to know what ones' genotype is.  Otherwise guesswork can play tricks.  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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DoS
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Ee Dan
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Quoted from Patty H
I think the entire argument is ridiculous.  What diet out there has had double blind studies performed comparing the specific diet to another way of eating and measuring the health improvements of the people involved?


That is my point... I'm not sure that any FDA/government approved "diet" has even gone through those rigors, in its entirety.
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Spring
Monday, April 30, 2012, 10:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from SandrAruba
Damon,
You should determine by measuring if you are a Warrior or not, not go by the description. Furthermore as a Warrior you are allowed lamb which is red meat. I eat it every now and then.

I do believe that an A can also be an explorer which has some meat in their diet. I am not sure about the Genotype, but someone else here will surely know. So perhaps you are not a Warrior. Redo the measurements with someone to assist you perhaps you typed yourself wrong (especially if you only went by the description).

Yes, this Explorer can have lamb on SWAMI, which I enjoy very much!


"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Damon
Tuesday, May 1, 2012, 10:06am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Lewis(a-b-) Warrior 45%
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Comments referring to the notion that "it is totally irrelevant whether the basis for the BTD is scientifically proven" and that "the proof is in the pudding" are not appropriate IMO. The topic starter is not without reason asking for reference to a scientific basis. The BTD is a 'lifestyle diet' and not simply a 'lose weight (quick) diet'. Since it involves some drastic lifestyle changes, it is pretty logical that someone would want to see some proper scientific evidence before given it a shot. And for all those who have already found their proof in their pudding; what if not all (sometimes very drastic) dietary rules you are following are necessary? Wouldn't you want to know that?? Also note that most of the people making these comments are following SWAMI (or at least the GTD). Especially SWAMI is far more advanced than the BTD, and incorporates a lot of factors (which are properly scientifically proven), in addition to the basic BTD 'lectin-stuff'.

As mentioned in my prior posts, I don't intend to claim the BTD, GTD and/or SWAMI don't work; but in response to the opening post of this topic, and the many positive replies of you 'believers' (no pun intended), I do want to ring a different noise. It is not that I don't believe in genotypes etc., but I do want to point out (especially towards the topic starter) that there are people like me who have not found the proof in their pudding and who believe that some core aspects of the BTD may well be wrong or exaggerated.

Let's get back to the scientific discussion, and mind you, I am definitely open to being convinced. As mentioned before there is little scientific about the 80% overall success rate. Sure there are lots of lectin-related studies as provided via Andrea's URL, but I would call these studies circumstantial. Where are the studies that specifically look at a type A's blood agglutination pre and post a beef-potato-bellpepper-meal? I feel that if the BTD would be considered sufficiently scientifically proven, Dr D should surely have received a Nobel prize. (And no, I don't believe in a large conspiracy against Dr D.)

Also think about this; all humans, regardless of blood type, cultural background, or diet histories have the same basic gut design, dentition (number and type of teeth, type of enamel), type of saliva and digestive enzymes. This is why we call them humans. Inuits have lived for millennia on 90% meat diets, Chinese for millennia on 90% plant food diets. Still there are no anatomical, physiological, or biochemical differences between Chinese and Eskimos. Nor are there any such differences between people with A-type and O-type blood.

So, do I think Dr D doesn't offer value to us customers? No. Especially SWAMI is very valuable, but IMO likely not because of the bloodtype-based dietary advice, but because of the numerous other dietary considerations included in SWAMI (e.g. think of specific organ support, chemical/pesticide/hormone content of individual foods, the completeness of the nutritional profile, etc.)

Finally, for everyone's information; I (used to) follow SWAMI myself, and can assure you I have filled in the input form to perfection. Also, the reason that I started following this diet in the first place is health- and not weight-related. Yes I felt OK on the diet, but my pudding teached me that I feel better when structurally bending some rules. This has made me question the appropriateness of those rules.

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