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eva b.
Thursday, March 10, 2011, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is not quite related to BTD, but I've been reading a lot recently and have started to suspect that I may be fructose intolerant, because in spite of being reasonably (not totally, but pretty good) compliant, I'm having severe problems with my digestive symptoms, as anyone who has read previous posts already knows.

Sorry to be so boring about my problems, but I can't help wondering whether many of the foods that are supposed to be good for me  - especially high quantities of fruit - are actually harming me, because that's how it feels.

Does anyone have any experience of this (fructose intolerance) as a separate issue from BTD?   The diet for this complaint is terribly restricted, and many of the OK foods for me would have to be eliminated.

Please don't just say to do SWAMI because I'm not in a position to do this at the moment, physically or financially, I just want to know if what I suspect is a possibility.

thanks.
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Goldie
Thursday, March 10, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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no need for Swami.. you can just tell us what fruit you think you should (maybe) reduce..

as o's we get like abouit 3 fruit.. I dont think that is to much , and depends on which fruit and jhow much a small fruit is not much..

but looking at the overall intake of foods might give (us) and you more clues.. for instance does anyone in your family have diabetes.. will you be prone to getting it ( short legs) then sugar might be on issue, but also certain fruits and food can give you way more then is intended to be eaten.. like I use very little rice, or when I eat peasoup, then it is not ever a bowl full.. a small 3 oz cup might be way more then I need.. ( not to be tired and fall asleep)  Bananas are high in sugar and for me I think they are great once a month .(unless you are on diuretics) or frozen in slices and then one or two slices only.

I have read where you wrote some things but do not reall seing what you eat and what happens after you eat it.. all that on the chart( I think you have one) will tell you what does what.

But if you are still interested in the foodmap discussion then look in Search under food map.. there was a big thread here about 3 month ago... Maybe PC will chime in here..he knows all about it ..


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Lola
Thursday, March 10, 2011, 10:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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ruthiegirl
Thursday, March 10, 2011, 10:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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You definitely don't need a SWAMI to take the BTD (or GTD) food list and then remove all the high FODMAP foods that are otherwise listed as neutral or beneficial.

Then you take your new list of foods and focus on what you CAN have- lots of meats, emphasize the veggies you're still allowed,etc. It shouldn't feel like  a deprivation when you're focused on the positive.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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TJ
Friday, March 11, 2011, 12:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Work on healing your gut, and you may find that your fructose issues go away.  That's what's happening to me!  In the meantime, here's a thread discussing this topic:
Fructose malabsorption and other intolerances
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JJR
Friday, March 11, 2011, 1:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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If you have candida, leaky gut, an imbalanced flora in your gut etc etc., sugar, even in fruits, can mess with you.  You might just need to watch how much sugar intake you get, even from fruit.  For 4 years I've been real careful about how much sugar I put in.  In the beginning, I ate very little sugary fruits, as I could tell they weren't good for me.  But as TJ, if your gut starts to heal, you'll be able to handle more.  I still have to be careful, but I'm better than I used to be.  

Good luck and God bless.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

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PCUK-Positive
Friday, March 11, 2011, 12:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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In the mean time if you list the main fruit and veg that you eat I'll indicate which ones are low fodmap.

the main one to Avoid are wheat, onions, garlic, inulin, apples, mango, pears, any fruit juice, watermelon, honey, blackberries, nectarines, plumbs, gums, mints,  cauliflower, mushrooms,  legumes, kidney beans , baked beans, peaches, pistachio nuts.

reduce sugar generally. only eat one fruit at a time and leave 3 hours between fruit or other fructose containing things.

also avoid sorbitol as this stops fructose being absorbed.


you also need to find out for sure if you are lactose intolerant, and it is wise to find out if you have a milk protein sensitivity, although if you eat right for your type you won't be eating any milk protienanyway.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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Goldie
Friday, March 11, 2011, 1:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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PC make a copy of this post and keep it for future  peopel asking .. shrt and concise.. but tell me how would I know if I was sugar intolerant?.. (I don't think I am but I have milk issues and see that as sugar)  

second post... sorry PC I can just look it up on the above links.. I am just so used to communicating with you back and forth.. I got lazy..  


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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ruthiegirl
Friday, March 11, 2011, 1:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from PCUK-Positive

you also need to find out for sure if you are lactose intolerant, and it is wise to find out if you have a milk protein sensitivity, although if you eat right for your type you won't be eating any milk protienanyway.


Actually, O secretors can have four cheeses: farmer's cheese, goat cheese, mozarella cheese, and feta cheese. All the Genotypes get some cheese as well, even Hunters, Gatherers, and Explorers. An individual who can't tolerate milk protein would need to avoid those cheeses.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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PCUK-Positive
Friday, March 11, 2011, 1:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Hi Ruthie, Being on swami and all of us being non secretors i forget these things. we don't bother with cheese much because of Emily but some cheeses are okay for some like Emily can eat goats cheese, she can even drink goats mils sometimes but sometimes not, weird but all good clean fun!

Sunflower oil will cause more troubles than milk protein with us for example.

Emily can also be totally clear for a week eat the same stuff the next week in the same order and have a reaction, usually turns out to be a chemical from the environment, like perfume, etc.

so watch everything.

my main objective with us is to get the bacteria right in the gut now. gleaned from Dr D's work. and reading extensively on that subject.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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PCUK-Positive
Friday, March 11, 2011, 1:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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I deal with experts in all of the particular fields regarding Emily's health i just wish there was one that was a fodmap expert, a gastro expert, a allergy expert, an immunology expert, a fibre expert and a blood type expert all rolled into one. Dr D comes closest to this and i trust his judgement the most.

I have become the middle man so to speak. I just keep reading and hope I'm not missing anything.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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eva b.
Friday, March 11, 2011, 3:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
I deal with experts in all of the particular fields regarding Emily's health i just wish there was one that was a fodmap expert, a gastro expert, a allergy expert, an immunology expert, a fibre expert and a blood type expert all rolled into one. Dr D comes closest to this and i trust his judgement the most.

I have become the middle man so to speak. I just keep reading and hope I'm not missing anything.

and thank heaven you've done as much research as you have...you're a godsend!
I'll post the list of fruit and vegs shortly  - have to do my shopping list for the moment.

thanks so much for your offer of help.
eva

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eva b.
Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from PCUK-Positive
In the mean time if you list the main fruit and veg that you eat I'll indicate which ones are low fodmap.

the main one to Avoid are wheat, onions, garlic, inulin, apples, mango, pears, any fruit juice, watermelon, honey, blackberries, nectarines, plumbs, gums, mints,  cauliflower, mushrooms,  legumes, kidney beans , baked beans, peaches, pistachio nuts.

reduce sugar generally. only eat one fruit at a time and leave 3 hours between fruit or other fructose containing things.

also avoid sorbitol as this stops fructose being absorbed


you also need to find out for sure if you are lactose intolerant, and it is wise to find out if you have a milk protein sensitivity, although if you eat right for your type you won't be eating any milk protienanyway.


Here are the main foods I've been eating:
Fruits:
apples
pears
grapes (red)
plums
raisins
blueberries

Veggies:
sweet potato
broccoli
sugar snap peas
green beans
broad beans
carrotts
mixed salad (occasional)
sprouts

Cereals:
rice cakes (from brown rice, unfortunately - can't get white ones)
oatcakes
quinoa pops (like popcorn no additives)


protein:
turkey
chicken
salmon
eggs (a bit)
tuna
almonds
sesame bars (with honey)

other:
butter
honey
sweets  (yes, I know )

actually, writing it out like this, I can see already where there are dangerous items - but to remove them would be incredibly restrictive - virtually all the fruit I eat is not allowed, many of the veg - not to mention the other stuff.

I have enormous craving for sugar, and in the last week or two have had some major cheating days, actually eating CAKES and DESSERTS - which of course make me feel dreadful and made the constipation worse.  I seem to have no control over myself, as if I had an eating disorder.  I simply am not able to stop, I actually don't have the stuff in the house...I will go to the shops and buy it because I craave it so much.

I think I  have to try some serious cold turkey - just trying to limit is not going to help me, I can't have "just a  bit"

What if I were to put myself on a diet very similar to Ms...just meat, eggs, fish, blueberry, pineapple (think it's OK), few green veg, white rice?
any other suggestions would be very welcome.

I read the entire old thread through  - very interesting, but also very confusing and as  you or someone else pointed out a lot of the info out there on the net is very confusing.

thanks for the input.

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PCUK-Positive
Saturday, March 12, 2011, 12:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from eva b.


Here are the main foods I've been eating:
Fruits:
X apples
X pears
grapes TRY WHITE (red)
X plums
X raisins
low blueberries

Veggies:
sweet potato MAX I CUP
broccoli MAX I CUP
X sugar snap peas
LOW green beans
AVOID broad beans
LOW carrots
mixed salad (occasional)
AVOID sprouts

Cereals:
rice cakes (from brown rice, unfortunately - can't get white ones)
oatcakes WHAT IS IN THESE ?CHECK LABEL
quinoa pops (like popcorn no additives) QUINOA IS GOOD


protein:
turkey GOOD
chicken REDUCE
salmon WHICH SALMON?
eggs (a bit) OKAY
tuna WHICH TUNA?
almonds SMALL AMOUNT ONLY
sesame bars (with honey) ABSOLUTELY NOT!

other:
butter CHANGE TO GHEE
honey AVOID
sweets  (yes, I know ) WELL IF YOU KNOW STOP

ITS NOT THAT BAD AND WORTH IT EVA

actually, writing it out like this, I can see already where there are dangerous items - but to remove them would be incredibly restrictive - virtually all the fruit I eat is not allowed, many of the veg - not to mention the other stuff.

I have enormous craving for sugar, and in the last week or two have had some major cheating days, actually eating CAKES and DESSERTS - which of course make me feel dreadful and made the constipation worse.  I seem to have no control over myself, as if I had an eating disorder.  I simply am not able to stop, I actually don't have the stuff in the house...I will go to the shops and buy it because I crave it so much.

IT WILL GET EASIER

I think I  have to try some serious cold turkey - just trying to limit is not going to help me, I can't have "just a  bit"

NO ONE CAN

What if I were to put myself on a diet very similar to Ms...just meat, eggs, fish, blueberry, pineapple (think it's OK), few green veg, white rice?
any other suggestions would be very welcome.

A GOOD START.

I read the entire old thread through  - very interesting, but also very confusing and as  you or someone else pointed out a lot of the info out there on the net is very confusing.

thanks for the input.



WORKING ON UP TO DATE STUFF OVER THE WEEKEND.

ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE A SECRETOR?


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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PCUK-Positive
Saturday, March 12, 2011, 12:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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IT'S ONLY FOR A WHILE TO SEE IF IT HELPS.

sorry about caps tired


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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Lola
Saturday, March 12, 2011, 12:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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you are an O
where is the beef, veal......etc ?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Goldie
Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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thanks for the list.. of foods you ate.. so many are not meant for you..

change and you will see the differences.. PC takes it one step further, but first you need a good list that is for you. O nonnie might be a good way to go.. looking at your geno TYPE propensity is another,, knowing what is in your future makes it easier to prevent issues early..

I think that becoming compliant is going to be important above all else..

what do you drink .. if its coffee that is another problem. try cocoa powder pure instead.. in hot water .. good luck..


Being here is invaluable, but not enough. We need ALL the Doctors. I needed them for a very small cancer spot-I could never feel!!! Please do your mammograms! Doing so saved me from cancer later on. I am grateful! Thanks for learning from my experience! I was lucky! I wish the same for YOU!
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stephanieelisej
Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 6:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from eva b.
This is not quite related to BTD, but I've been reading a lot recently and have started to suspect that I may be fructose intolerant, because in spite of being reasonably (not totally, but pretty good) compliant, I'm having severe problems with my digestive symptoms, as anyone who has read previous posts already knows.

Sorry to be so boring about my problems, but I can't help wondering whether many of the foods that are supposed to be good for me  - especially high quantities of fruit - are actually harming me, because that's how it feels.

Does anyone have any experience of this (fructose intolerance) as a separate issue from BTD?   The diet for this complaint is terribly restricted, and many of the OK foods for me would have to be eliminated.

Please don't just say to do SWAMI because I'm not in a position to do this at the moment, physically or financially, I just want to know if what I suspect is a possibility.

thanks.


I know this thread is from over a year ago however I just thought I would chip in-

Personally, I avoid high fructose foods, whereby the fructose (total) is greater then the other carbohydrates.

You can find pages on the web with graphs / charts that break down the fructose / glucose and other sugars (i.e. maltose, sucrose etc.) content of foods.

I've personally found it very helpful. For example, Apples are very high in fructose, so I just have perhaps 1 small apple per day max. I would generally do better on say some fresh cherries which have a greater glucose content. But I always try to rotate things for variety etc.

We're very lucky here to have lots of fresh organic berries growing and I have little issue with these.


Above all though, I would strongly recommend getting your liver panels done, as the liver is directly affected by fructose consumption. As a BTO, the worse off my liver is, the more I have to watch the fructose - including fruit (not just sugars etc.)

Hope this helps in some way


Nutritionist - in - training
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PCUK-Positive
Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 1:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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You are very young to have liver issue. Being that you are Blood type O I would imagine Apples were an avoid and since they are a high fodmap food perhaps you should not eat them at all.

Be warned that many of those charts are wrong. I get my info from Boxhill university which is a leading university hospital in the field. although I still make the blood type diet the priority and increasingly so as my daughter get better.

did you evr get a fructose breath test?

how long have you been on the low fodmap diet?

perhaps it would be an idea to get geno typed, even though this seems to affect explorer a lot.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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ruthiegirl
Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 1:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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PC- apples are neutral for O secretors, and only an "avoid" for O nonnies.


Ruth, Single Mother to 19yo   O- Leah (in Israel for the school year), 17yo O- Hannah, and  12yo B+ Jack


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PCUK-Positive
Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer Rh+, NN, (lewis a+ b-) [Duffy Fy(a+b+) ]
Kyosha Nim
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I know that Ruthie but if you are a fructose malabsorber apples will become an avoid. Also I imagine that she may not be a secretor so safer to avoid In my opinion.


Kind Regards PC. FIfHI Swami III Pro

Partner (F) is O+(Non) MN. Duffy Fy(a+b+),  Lewis (a+ b-) Fructose Malabsorber. Explorer.
DD (7) is O+(Non) Lewis (a+b-) (Fructose Malabsorption)54% Gatherer ?

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AKArtlover
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 3:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would look at a full spectrum plant based digestive enzyme. Cellulase kills yeast on contact. If you don't have heavy metal issues (yeast is somewhat protective with mercury), might be worth looking at therapuetically as well as for digestive help.


"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:13,14
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aussielady582
Thursday, December 6, 2012, 4:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a very intersting thread, will read more an other day when not rushing.  I think many people have imbalance in their diets, eating habits, elimination, etc and eat way too much fruits and sugars, sweeteners,  Even the amounts of food we eat and combinations are out of wack as with me for a long time.  the body is amazing, you will feel better, keep optimistic. I am also sensitive to sugars, fruits.  For now, I try to eat smaller amounts of fruit and mostly in mornings for breaky, and perhaps a little just before lunch. Also, variety is good too, not just bananas or apples the way some people do. I would try berries a bit more. having enough protein/fat is important too, everyone is different, so in time, you'll figure out what works.  
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Possum
Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 12:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from stephanieelisej
I know this thread is from over a year ago however I just thought I would chip in-

Personally, I avoid high fructose foods, whereby the fructose (total) is greater then the other carbohydrates.

You can find pages on the web with graphs / charts that break down the fructose / glucose and other sugars (i.e. maltose, sucrose etc.) content of foods.

I've personally found it very helpful. For example, Apples are very high in fructose, so I just have perhaps 1 small apple per day max. I would generally do better on say some fresh cherries which have a greater glucose content. But I always try to rotate things for variety etc.

We're very lucky here to have lots of fresh organic berries growing and I have little issue with these.

Above all though, I would strongly recommend getting your liver panels done, as the liver is directly affected by fructose consumption. As a BTO, the worse off my liver is, the more I have to watch the fructose - including fruit (not just sugars etc.)
Hi, have you got any links to charts that list fructose vs glucose in vegs in particular? Cheers
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aussielady582
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I have some cysts on my liver, so yes, eating too much fruit and sweeteners and grains in the past probably hasn't helped.  If one keeps up their proteins/fats, I think things improve in time, once body balances out.
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Fructose intolerance/FODMAPS diet

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