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Cultured Vegetables  This thread currently has 15,272 views. Print Print Thread
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Drea
Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 3:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Fruit kimchee sound good: http://picklesnotpipebombs.info/2010/11/07/fruit-kimchi/

I haven't tried it, just imagining.


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Munchkin76
Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 9:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hey everyone

Well having been away for the last few days, I finally got around to tasting my cultured veg (cabbage, carrot, ginger and chili).  I had about a tablespoon or so with tonight's dinner (marinated organic lamb steak, sweet potato mash, peas and steamed courgettes).  It was really good!!  Now that I'm no longer a novice I'm looking forward to experimenting.  I've realised that they sell daikon raddish here (called mooli in the supermarket), so I think that'll be an interesting new ingredient for the next batch!

Thanks again y'all for the support, tips and advice

Andy  


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passionprincess
Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 9:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Congrats, Andy!

Koreans use daikon radish to make kimchee. When daikon radish is fermented right, I think it is much better than cabbage kimchee. Koreans make this clear beef bone broth and would use the daikon radish kimchee to spice it up and make it seem less greasy.

Enjoy!


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Munchkin76
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 10:46am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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PP, do you have a daikon kimchee recipe you can share/recommend?

I know I can search the net but personal recommendations are always best I find.

Thanks!

Andy


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Kim
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 11:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Just starting to think of making cultured foods after lurking on this thread.  Where are you all getting recipes?  Or are you just making them up as you go along?  
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Drea
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 1:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Kim
Just starting to think of making cultured foods after lurking on this thread.  Where are you all getting recipes?  Or are you just making them up as you go along?  


I got a lot of my inspiration from Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation book (I recommend it), and past experience of eating turnip kimchee that I used to be able to find in Japanese markets when I lived in CA...that recipe I searched the Internet for until I found one that had the same taste ingredients.

Other than that, I've just been experimenting.


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Munchkin76
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 2:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Drea


I got a lot of my inspiration from Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation book (I recommend it), and past experience of eating turnip kimchee that I used to be able to find in Japanese markets when I lived in CA...that recipe I searched the Internet for until I found one that had the same taste ingredients.

Other than that, I've just been experimenting.


Drea, care to share your recipe?


Listen to all, plucking a feather from every passing goose, but follow no one absolutely. CHINESE PROVERB

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passionprincess
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 3:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi, Andy.

I just use kimchee recipes from memory and online. My grandmother and mother would make kimchee at home. I called my mom after finding some recipes online to get her input. I, then, tweaked it to be GTD compliant.

Here is a daikon radish recipe:
http://www.asianculinaryrecipes.com/korea-cookery/daikon-radish-kimchi.php

You can drop the fish paste. Just add extra salt or brine your radish in extra salty water. As for the glutinous flour, I use my brown rice flour starter (kefir whey + brown rice - it has more probiotics).

I am not too fond of leeks or chives. It can be dropped from the recipe. However, cucumber kimchee with chives is another story.


This is a "mool kimchee" (aka water kimchee) recipe where it is less spicy, more "white" (sometimes referred to as baek - white - kimchee). You can use Asian pear or substitute with an apple. The fruit makes this kimchee more crisp and refreshing. The broth/brine after fermenting is used as a hangover remedy or for cold noodles in the summer time. It is a light, crisp, refreshing noodle dish that goes well with greasy and heavier bbqs.

You can add a few bits of cucumber and carrot. My granny used to add whatever carrots or cucumbers we had at home.

http://www.chow.com/recipes/11293-mul-kimchi-white-kimchi-water-kimchi


You can pm me or post questions here in terms of modifying the recipe.


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Munchkin76
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 6:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Fantastic PP, you're a star!!

This is definitely my next project when my last batch of goodies is nearly done!!

Thanks again!!

Andy  


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passionprincess
Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 7:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Have fun, Andy! My pleasure!!


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Drea
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My recipe is slightly different: turnips (about 5 or 6), 1 carrot, 5 cloves of garlic, 2" ginger root, a bunch of green onions (just the green part), sliced.

Last time I julienned all the veggies (using a food processor), except the green onions. I've also sliced all the veggies using a food processor, so do whatever texture you like.

Put all the veggies in a bowl (except the green onion), sprinkle with salt (approx 2-3 Tablespoons), massage the veggies until they produce their own juice, add the green onion tops, and 1-2 Tablespoons of red pepper (if you want). Stuff into a jar, making sure all the veggies are submerged under their own liquid, etc...


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Drea
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The sauerkraut in the new 1-gallon kimchee maker is bubbling over like crazy (I'm so glad I followed the advice to put the jar on a plate -- in fact, I transferred the jar to a bowl last night and am glad I did!). The cabbage is slowly moving upward, pushing the water out the top, and there is a space on the bottom of the jar that contains only water! Pretty cool to watch the process; just like in the video tutorial that came with the jar!


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Drea
Friday, September 2, 2011, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm rather disappointed in the sauerkraut. It's been fermenting for 4 days and is neither salty nor sour.

I'm going to put it in smaller locking lid type jars to see if I can get it to be more sour. I'm not sure about the kimchee maker; I'll have to try another batch of something before I say if I like it one way or another...


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Drea
Saturday, September 3, 2011, 11:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I didn't do what I said; instead I did this: I pulled all the kraut out of the gallon jar, rinsed the jar, poured off the liquid of the kraut in the bowl, stuffed it back into the gallon jar, then added 2 qts of brine (adding 4 Tablespoons of sea salt to the water), then put the contraption back together and left it to do it's thing. Time moves so slowly when one is waiting . I'll taste it tomorrow.


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passionprincess
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:57am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The fruit kimchi recipe actually makes about 3 quarts (1/2 gallon) IF you follow the recipe!  I followed most of the directions and ended up with 2 quart jars. I left out the nuts, extra peppers, etc. I only used sea salt, jalapeno (1/4), cilantro, lemon juice, and tiny bit of sweet apple cider.

Since I had a lot of cilantro left over, I made fermented veggies: broccoli, beets, carrots, celery, bell peppers (red, yellow, orange), and onions. Spices: sea salt, jalapeno (3/4), cilantro, garlic, lemon juice, and sweet apple cider. Inspired by the lovely smell of cilantro, garlic, lemon juice, and sea salt! Reminds me of my favorite Mexican salsa except I modified it (both the fruit and veggies).

I lost one glass gallon jar when I was trying to finish washing the rest. Oh well.


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TJ
Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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You gotta be careful about fruit ferments.  If you get yeast in there...
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passionprincess
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Of course! But this is closer to  fruity salsa. It has salt to lacto-ferment it and keep the yeast at bay.

Quoted from TJ
You gotta be careful about fruit ferments.  If you get yeast in there...




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Drea
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So here's my review of the gallon glass kimchee maker:

A gallon of fermented veggies is too darn much (but that's not the fault of the kimchee maker). The gallon jar has a larger mouth than standard canning jars, so the lids don't fit any other jars (and visa-versa). I wish the inner cap was made of something other than plastic, and made in two halves, so I could have it sit farther down (and wouldn't have to add brine) if I didn't have enough veggies to fill the entire container.

The idea is a good one, though, and I have a gallon of turnips, carrots, ginger, garlic, and korean pepper powder fermenting now. I may try the half-gallon size if I choose to buy another one.


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passionprincess
Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Drea - It looks like an interesting contraption. I found out that if I brine my veggies, it does a bit longer to ferment BUT you do not get the water overflowing out of the container. Brining takes the liquid out of the veggies and then, the spices and additional water goes back in. The shorter the brining period, the more water the veggies will expel while in the container, causing water to come out of the jar.

Thank you for the review!

My current ferments are sitting on plates and casserole dishes to catch the overflow. I might just brine longer next time. I ran out of the patience this time so I did not brine long enough, imho.

It has a learning curve. There is a science and art to it. Most of all, it is fun! I am still learning and experimenting.


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Drea
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When you say brining (I know you've talked about it before, but I'm too lazy to look it up ), what exactly does that mean and how do you do it?


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passionprincess
Monday, September 5, 2011, 11:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Maybe I should have written "salting". Brining would be soaking it in salt water but I usually sprinkle salt on wet veggies (a bit of water on them from being washed) and let it sit for a few hours. I use huge chunks of sea salt so the more water I have, the easier for the salt to melt. I know I could grind the salt but I am lazy.

I would let it sit in the salt for a bit, massage it, turn it over so the areas that were not as exposed to the salt gets some coverage and then let it sit some more.

You can smell the lacto-fermentation after a few hours. The veggies smell salty and have that fermentation smell.

Quoted from Drea
When you say brining (I know you've talked about it before, but I'm too lazy to look it up ), what exactly does that mean and how do you do it?




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Drea
Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:14am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And after you let the veggies sit, then what?


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passionprincess
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Then, I add the spices (almost like tossing a salad and making sure every piece of the veggie has some of the "dressing" on it). It took a little longer to ferment because my kimchee was "dry" but it fermented perfectly. I noticed that I do not have as much "juice" than my other ferments but I only want the fermented veggies so the amount of juice does not really matter.

The nice thing is, no overflowing. It was such a clean process that I am going to let it sit in salt for much longer than before.


Quoted from Drea
And after you let the veggies sit, then what?




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Drea
Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Okay, so let me see if I understand your process...first you wash the veggies, leaving a bit of water on them, shred/cut/dice them, salt them, coating as evenly as you can, and let them sit for several hours. Then you add spices, and let them sit for several days? Do you smash them down into the jar like Sandor Katz suggests? Do you add water?

Here's how I've been doing it (before I got the kimchee maker): I wash and shred the veggies, adding them into a large bowl and sprinkling sea salt over them as I go. Then I use my hand to massage the veggies, mixing them together and massaging the salt into them. As I do this, I notice that the veggies are releasing their juices. Then I put the veggies into a jar, packing them down tightly, then put a lid on the jar and walk away . I don't have to add extra water.


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passionprincess
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I talked to my mother and followed a traditional Korean lady's kimchee recipe post online. She uses fish paste and msg and the like. Blech.

Both suggested cutting up the veggies first and the washing them (the lady calls it giving the cabbage pieces a shower). Then, you salt it. My glass mixing bowl is small so I try and salt in layers. After a few hours or more, I come back and massage and mix/move the cabbage around so the other side gets salted. Let it sit for several more hours.

The last time I did this, I cut, washed, and salted the veggies after dinner dishes. Then massaged and turned the layers over before bed. Slept... for a good 8 hours or so.

Woke up and then...

Made my kimchee porridge (granny, mom, and the lady all do this) - with 1/4 cup brown rice starter flour (brown rice and kefir - original Korean recipe uses sweet rice and water), 1/4 cup red pepper powder, about 3/4 to 1 cup of sweet apple cider (since I am not using Asian pear... similar to one fruit), 1 garlic and 1 onion... all into the food processor so it mixes nicely (about 2-2.5 cups for 1/2 gallon jar).

Poured the mixture over the salted cabbage and then just put everything into the kimchee jar. If you have some of the spice mixture left over, you can pour some on the bottom of the jar and save some to pour on top of the cabbage leaves before closing the jar.

If you want, you can use a plate, ziploc baggie filled with water or whatnot to push the veggies below liquid level.

Then, you let it sit for a few days.

Koreans do not mash or beat their veggies. They just salt, mix the spices, and put it into the container.

I read somewhere that the veggies release the water and become mushy and then absorb the spices, etc. and become crispy again during the fermentation process. After reading this, I realized why some of the fermentation jars overflow and that is because the veggies were still releasing juices while in the jar. The way I described above makes a drier kimchee. It still has enough liquid but not so much that it would overflow.


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