Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register


Main Forum Page  ♦   Latest Posts  ♦   Member Center  ♦   Search  ♦   Archives   ♦   Help   ♦   Log In/Out   ♦   Admins
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Agave and Fructose Warnings?
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 6 Guests

Agave and Fructose Warnings?  This thread currently has 20,471 views. Print Print Thread
6 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 » All Recommend Thread
Spatz
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 1:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Isn't Agave almost all Fructose?  I have heard horror stories of glucose sensitivity and insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome being issues with the consumption of fructose.

Why is Agave ok (being nearly 100% fructose)?

Is the issue here the FRUCTOSE itself that causes these health concerns or is it the SOURCE of fructose (I believe nearly all of it is produced from corn...   )

I am confused.... is there a difference in agave fructose???  

Can I gain weight from insulin resistance if I consume agave??  
Logged
E-mail E-mail
wwbailey
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 2:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

O+ H U N T E R - Super Taster / Secretor
Ee Dan
Posts: 614
Gender: Male
Age: 60
I never have any sugar spikes from Agave or any brain fog or cravings afterwards.


"Desperation is the mother of open-mindedness!"
Professor of Life - Peppermint Twist
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 1 - 131
Spatz
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 2:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
not sugar spikes.... fructose does not cause any of those.  It does not turn into blood glucose.  I have read many articles on how fructose affects insulin receptors themselves and NOT the insulin itself.  this would make one more insulin resistant (without ever raising glucose levels)  which would make it so that when you DID eat carbohydrate that turned to blood glucose the body would need higher and higher amounts of insulin causing diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, etc...

It's not something that happens overnight, though..
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 2 - 131
allycat
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 2:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
I don't see Agave on the "allowed" list for type B...does anyone know if it's ok for us??  thanks!
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 3 - 131
JJR
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 3:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,960
Gender: Male
Location: Caledonia, WI
Age: 42
Well, I think it's better than regular sugar or fructose for that matter.  When I use it, it doesn't seem to make me feel weird.  But many other sweeteners do.  Like today I made some Gingerbread Scones that were in a Southern Cooking Christmas book I had.  And the sweetener was molasses.  I don't eat molasses that often and I used blackstrap.  But I ate one scone and I could tell it messed with me and charged me up some.  I was trying to think about how much molasses might have been in the one I had.  Maybe a tablespoon?  And it razzed me up.  But the cake I made a while back with Agave did nothing of the sort.  It may depend on you.  It's probably a little different for everyone.  That's one of the problems behind these "studies".  They forget that everyone is different and reacts differently to these things.


The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 4 - 131
C_Sharp
Saturday, November 28, 2009, 3:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator
Posts: 8,573
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana
Age: 54
Quoted from 7299
I don't see Agave on the "allowed" list for type B...does anyone know if it's ok for us??  


Check TypeBase for food values. There is a TypeBase tab above.

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?600


MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 5 - 131
italybound
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 3:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from 7087
not sugar spikes.... fructose does not cause any of those.  It does not turn into blood glucose.  I have read many articles on how fructose affects insulin receptors themselves and NOT the insulin itself.  this would make one more insulin resistant (without ever raising glucose levels)  which would make it so that when you DID eat carbohydrate that turned to blood glucose the body would need higher and higher amounts of insulin causing diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, etc...


VERY interesting. thinking back on how long I've used agave and the weight gain I've experienced in about the same amount of time, I have to wonder. I cook, bake and everything else exclusively with agave specifically because of my blood sugar issues.
I would love to hear from Dr D on this if he would be so kind.
Also, Spatz, do you have some info you could send me?



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 6 - 131
Dr. D
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 3:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
Kwan Jhang Nim
Posts: 4,209
Gender: Male
Location: Connecticut
Age: 58
Fructose cannot cause any significant insulin spikes since fructose does not require insulin for its absorption and metabolism. Agave is a source of fructose (as are blueberries) but the main reason it is generally considered a 'neutral' as compared to other sweeteners is that it seems to produce almost no bacteria overgrowth (as opposed to hfcs, which does) and does not provoke major immune/ gut related reactions, which hfcs also does (probably because it is corn derived; I've seen this same thing with 'ascorbic acid' vitamin C versus rose hip and acerola derived vitamin C -- most commercial ascorbic acid is derived from corn syrup).

Beware of the 'fructose is bad' mantra. If you took that to it's logical extreme, you'd never eat a fruit. It's the hfcs we are being deluged with that is the problem.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 7 - 131
Golfzilla
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 3:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 10/09/Swami Hunter 1/10/Taster/ISTJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,648
Gender: Male
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Age: 61
Dr. D~ thanks for the clarification. What about Agave becoming not good for us when heated..?




If you keep doing what you've always done, and you keep getting what you've aways got, perhaps it's time for a change...
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message AIM AIM Reply: 8 - 131
italybound
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Quoted from Golfzilla
Dr. D~ thanks for the clarification. What about Agave becoming not good for us when heated..?


also, what about this:

Quoted from 7087
I have read many articles on how fructose affects insulin receptors themselves and NOT the insulin itself.  this would make one more insulin resistant (without ever raising glucose levels)


Thanks for that info Dr D. I really appreciate it. Really.       If I don't have lots of clarification, it makes it hard for me to make decisions. One of my many quirks.  



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 9 - 131
teri
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- ISTJ Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 577
Gender: Female
Location: British Columbia
Age: 53
Quoted from italybound
"I have read many articles on how fructose affects insulin receptors themselves and NOT the insulin itself.  this would make one more insulin resistant (without ever raising glucose levels)"

I'm reading the same articles. There does seem to be quite a difference between naturally occurring fructose in fruits and the refined fructose in agave and hfcs...

Quoted Text
"Refined fructose (or anything) lacks amino acids, vitamins, minerals, pectin, and fiber. As a result, the body doesn't recognize refined fructose. Levulose, on the other hand, is naturally occurring in fruits, and is not isolated but bound to other naturally occurring sugars. Unlike man-made fructose, levulose contains enzymes, vitamins, minerals, fiber, and fruit pectin. Refined fructose is processed in the body through the liver, rather than digested in the intestine.(5) Levulose is digested in the intestine. Refined fructose robs the body of many micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use. While naturally occurring fruit sugars contain levulose bound to other sugars, high fructose corn syrup contains "free" (unbound), chemically refined fructose. Research indicates that free refined fructose interferes with the heart's use of key minerals like magnesium, copper and chromium. (6)

...

The retail refined agave syrup label does not explain that it goes through a complicated chemical refining process of enzymatic digestion, which converts the starch into the free, man-made chemical fructose that has a direct link to serious the degenerative disease conditions so prevalent in our culture. While high fructose agave syrup won't spike your blood sugar levels, the fructose in it will cause: mineral depletion, liver inflammation, hardening of the arteries, insulin resistance leading to diabetes, cardio-vascular disease, obesity, and may be toxic for use during pregnancy.


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 10 - 131
italybound
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 6:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
geeez, if any of that is true (last post), this is getting depressing. thought maybe I'd use raisins for sweetening like the neighbor does, but alas, it is a black dot. Maybe dates.  



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 11 - 131
Golfzilla
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 6:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

BTD 10/09/Swami Hunter 1/10/Taster/ISTJ
Ee Dan
Posts: 1,648
Gender: Male
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Age: 61
teri~ is there an agave available in a "raw" form like one can purchase honey




If you keep doing what you've always done, and you keep getting what you've aways got, perhaps it's time for a change...
Logged Offline
Site Site Private Message Private message AIM AIM Reply: 12 - 131
teri
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 7:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- ISTJ Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 577
Gender: Female
Location: British Columbia
Age: 53
I don't know if there's a truly raw form out there. If there is, it won't be very sweet. The one I buy is labelled "organic raw blue", says its processed at a temperature not higher than 118oF. I'm sure it contains some of that refined fructose too, but not in unnatural proportions as in other forms. I use it sparingly, mostly just to sweeten my homemade rice milk or rice pudding (added after cooking) and never used for baking or cooking. I actually prefer maple syrup (which probably has the same refined fructose problem), but my Gatherer hub can't do that, so it is agave for us. If I ever do any baking (which is mostly never) I will use organic cane sugar (oops, is that an avoid?).


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 13 - 131
italybound
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
So for Hunters, fructose is a toxin. Of course this is probably not meant to include fruit as Dr D mentioned earlier. Then it says agave is a superfood. If it's soooooo high in fructose, how is that possible? Molasses is also a superfood. Is there the same problem w/ fructose there? It's cooked too!

My head hurts.....



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 14 - 131
ruthiegirl
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 7:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI O+ Gatherer, Healing from Fibromyalgia
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 12,419
Gender: Female
Location: New York
Age: 42
I'm also wondering about Agave and the liver- I've had problems with elevated liver enzymes in the past, and I don't want to eat anything that might set off new liver problems.

One thing to keep in mind is that agave is a simple carbohydrate, and too much sugar is going to lead to weight gain. One teaspoon per day in a cup of tea is unlikely to cause problems, but once you're baking "holiday goodies" with agave, you might be eating too much. From the simple perspective of "how does agave affect your weight?" then quantity is definitly a factor. From a health perspective, I'm not really sure.


Ruth, Single Mother to 20 yo  O- Leah , 18 yo O- Hannah, and  13 yo B+ Jack


Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 15 - 131
Cristina
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 8:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,550
Gender: Female
Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 63
Teri, where is the link to those articles?  Thanks ..  




Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 16 - 131
C_Sharp
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Teacher Rh+ Lewis: a+b-, NN,Taster
Sa Bon Nim
Administrator
Posts: 8,573
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana
Age: 54
Quoted from italybound
So for Hunters, fructose is a toxin. Of course this is probably not meant to include fruit as Dr D mentioned earlier. Then it says agave is a superfood. If it's soooooo high in fructose, how is that possible? Molasses is also a superfood. Is there the same problem w/ fructose there? It's cooked too!

My head hurts.....


I have always assumed that the fructose entry:

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/depictor5.pl?171

Applied to the refined form. Not fructose that naturally occurs in things like blueberries.

A refined product will not always have the same rating as what it is derived from.

For instance table sugar is often derived from beets. The two products are rated differently.



MIfHI                            I follow a SWAMI diet.
Logged
Private Message Private message Reply: 17 - 131
Cristina
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,550
Gender: Female
Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 63
Find it! I am not impressed!!  

Quoted Text
If you want to buy something sweet, get a piece of fruit, not a candy bar labeled as a "health food." If you want to create something sweet, use sweeteners that are known to be safer. For uncooked dishes, unheated raw honey or dates work well. For cooked dishes or sweet drinks, a good organic maple syrup, or even freshly juiced apple juice or orange juice can provide delicious and relatively safe sweetness. In general, to be healthy, we cannot eat sugar all day, no matter how natural the form of sugar is, or is claimed to be.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:http://www.she-zencuisine.com/agave-nectar

Back to my honey, black dot or not!! Moderation is the emphasis here!  I do not think I will be able to look at Agave the same way again after reading this link!     
Thanks for posting it!




Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 18 - 131
teri
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh- ISTJ Explorer
Ee Dan
Posts: 577
Gender: Female
Location: British Columbia
Age: 53
Quoted from Cristina
Teri, where is the link to those articles?  Thanks ..  

I had a whole whack of links open this morning. The excerpt I posted seemed to best sum up everything I was reading. The link is here...

http://www.newmediaexplorer.or.....ealth_food_fraud.htm


Here is another good link, this one references medical journals...

http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/HFCSAgave.pdf


I'm onto you, 'euphoria'
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 19 - 131
Spatz
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 11:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Dr. D:  Thank you, you have answered my question.  I was guessing along the lines of Fructose problems:  Corn and that Agave fructose might not act like "fructose" (the one that is condemned) because it is not derived from corn.

I am satisfied and comfortable enough to now utilize it (but I will always love and use my beloved Quebec Maple syrup more!    )
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 20 - 131
Cristina
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 11:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SwamiX Explorer A2+; L(a-b+); MN,INFP, T/ R1b-M343
Ee Dan
Posts: 3,550
Gender: Female
Location: Sunny Coast,��QLD, Australia
Age: 63
Quoted from Cristina


Back to my honey, black dot or not!!

Who am I kidding??  Before I do that I have better options in my Swami as Super Foods: Maple syrup, Vegetable glycerin and Barley malt, all have been new tastes for me (with the exception of mapple syrup I had before), but I  am really enjoying the sweet-bitter tanginess of barley malt and sweet heat of Vegie glycerin.  Come to think of it, Agave was only a Neutral, a very sweet one, good transition from honey withdrawal cravings.  But, my sweet tooth is well catered for in my Swami and all SFs with Barley Malt Diamond!!  Mmmm black coffee with Barley malt = yummy diamond boost!  





Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 21 - 131
Lola
Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 11:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,428
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 58
and gradually swift away from the candy box!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
Logged
Private Message Private message YIM YIM Reply: 22 - 131
italybound
Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 3:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

~Concealed~Carry~Hunter~
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 9,163
Location: Near St. Louis
Age: 58
Sooo, I went to the store and bought some pitted dates. Nothing else, just dates, no junk. I put a little water in my VitaMix and added about half the bag of dates. Whirred until they were pureed. I'll try using this in place of agave for a while and see what happens. Will be an interesting experiment. I'm going to be really sad if I need to give up my agave. ;-/    NEED .... TO .... DO ..... SWAMI  



Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 23 - 131
JJR
Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 4:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

33% Nomad, calories calories!!!!!!
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 4,960
Gender: Male
Location: Caledonia, WI
Age: 42
Quoted from Dr. D
Fructose cannot cause any significant insulin spikes since fructose does not require insulin for its absorption and metabolism. Agave is a source of fructose (as are blueberries) but the main reason it is generally considered a 'neutral' as compared to other sweeteners is that it seems to produce almost no bacteria overgrowth (as opposed to hfcs, which does) and does not provoke major immune/ gut related reactions, which hfcs also does (probably because it is corn derived; I've seen this same thing with 'ascorbic acid' vitamin C versus rose hip and acerola derived vitamin C -- most commercial ascorbic acid is derived from corn syrup).

Beware of the 'fructose is bad' mantra. If you took that to it's logical extreme, you'd never eat a fruit. It's the hfcs we are being deluged with that is the problem.


Does this apply to yeast / candida albicans also?



The poster formerly known as "ABNOWAY"

"Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - Phillipians 4:8
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 24 - 131
6 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 » All Recommend Thread
Print Print Thread

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Agave and Fructose Warnings?

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread