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organicmomma
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 1:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I think I am begining to notice signs of gluten intolerance.  Severe fatigue, foggy headed, bloating, inabilty to loss weight and severe muscle and abdominal pain.  

I did the colon cleanse mentioned in "One Man's Food...", and then when I came off of it I started eating benificals and a few neutrals.  Then I started adding back my oat, rye and spelt, and all my problems came back.  I have not had any avoids since.  I have been off the cleans for a week know, and I feel as bad as I did when I started it.

My questions are:

1.  For those who avoid gluten, do you still eat the benificals with gluten or avoid them at all cost?

2.  Will sprouted grains do me better, worse or indiffernt?

3.  Should I just eat a different grain each week to see if the beneficals do not bother me?
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mikeo
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 2:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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1. eat the benes and see if you experience the same symptoms

2. sprouted grains still have gluten in them

3. yes


RHN MIfHI
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Victoria
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 3:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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1.  I don't eat any gluten at all because it makes me feel like you described.  I eat high levels of beneficials, but none with gluten.

2.  It depends on your body.  Sprouted grains still have gluten, although slightly less than unsprouted grains.  They would be healthier than unsprouted grains, as far as nutritional value, but if your problem is truly gluten, you will still be eating it.

3.  If it were me, and if I wasn't sure, I would start by eating sprouted grain, and if possible, eat only one at a time.  Then move on to the others, one at a time.  Or you could just eliminate gluten and be happy with your more comfortable body.  



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of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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Melissa_J
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 4:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I just figured it out by testing different foods. The last one I tested was rye manna bread, just sprouted rye.  It didn't give me all the terrible symptoms that wheat does (foggy brain, fatigue, moodiness, etc. are all only wheat-caused for me), but sure enough, a few hours later I had a lot of bloating and abdominal symptoms.  That was my final 'test' for gluten intolerance.  Since then, no gluten of any sort for me.

Some of my relatives have since been confirmed celiacs by biopsy, some by stool test, some by blood tests, but I was the pioneer of the family and basically self-diagnosed.  


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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organicmomma
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 5:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Is it hard to live without gluten (big carb addict talking here)?  The adults in the house can probably live without gluten most of the time, but I would be worried about my daughter and no gluten.  Everytime we have cut back on her gluten intake she loses weight (she is 3.5 yrs and only weighs 27 #'s).  I'm affraid if I made it for her that I would eat it too.  She loves manna bread and Ezekial bread, I like them both ok but DH doesn't at all.  

I like the idea of trying differnt grains one at a time to see if all or just somw bother me.  

Is it hard to sprout grains?  How would I use them?

p.s. DH and DD are both O's with unknown secretor status.  
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Melissa_J
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 6:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I'm hardly tempted by gluten at all anymore, but it took some time to get to that stage.  I don't mind watching anybody eat it because I don't want it.

For me it's more of a challenge that my kids are also GF but I buy and make them all kinds of GF carby goodies that I shouldn't eat...but they won't make me sick...so sometimes I eat them.  I'd have an easier time avoiding their food if it would make me sick.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Paula 0+
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 6:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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organicmomma,
Melissa J is a good one to ask this of, she has a couple of little ones at home also O's I believe. But I must say that no gluten will not hurt her, only help her. I have two sons, both are older now, that were also thin, this can be
because of malabsorption due to gluten intolerance....they are both healthier without gluten....
We did use a lot of rice pasta to get over the idea of no wheat pasta....my guys love it!

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paulam  -  Sunday, September 9, 2007, 6:51pm
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italybound
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 8:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from paulam
We did use a lot of rice pasta to get over the idea of no wheat pasta....my guys love it!


and for those that can have corn.......Rich says corn pasta is pretty good......better than rice pasta in his opinion



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Maria Giovanna
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 9:28pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Pat,
I find an organic corn pasta in Italy really super tasty and twice a week I eat it. All the celiac foods at the chemist or in the pharmacy are full of corn and an avoid for all , only allowed for As secretors. this is really worst for the celiacs (O, B and AB as A nonnies).
Have a nice week and stay well !
Maria Giovanna


INTJ Italy celiac��
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italybound
Sunday, September 9, 2007, 10:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Maria_Giovanna
All the celiac foods at the chemist or in the pharmacy are full of corn and an avoid for all , only allowed for As secretors


Oh gosh Maria, you're right!! I had totally forgotten that as Rich is an A sec.    Lucky for him I guess.



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Lola
Monday, September 10, 2007, 3:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Is it hard to sprout grains?  How would I use them?

use the search button to find more recipes and instruction.....
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive4/config.pl?read=490



''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Carol the Dabbler
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 4:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
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Quoted from organicmomma
I would be worried about my daughter and no gluten.  Everytime we have cut back on her gluten intake she loses weight (she is 3.5 yrs and only weighs 27 #'s).



If you simply stop feeding your daughter wheat, she gets less carbohydrates and fewer calories.  But if you add other carb foods in place of the wheat, she should be fine.

For A's and O's, as either a dinner grain (with gravy or whatever) or a hot cereal, there's amaranth, buckwheat (except for O nonnies), millet, quinoa, rice, and sorghum (for A's only).  And don't forget starchy vegetables, like squash -- they're not quite as filling as grains, but they have lots of vitamins.  For baked goods, you can buy flour made from any of the above grains.  As noted already, virtually all store-bought baked goods contain lots of A/O Avoids (generally potato starch, corn flour, xanthan gum, and/or guar gum), and the prepared mixes are no better.  But homemade tastes better anyhow!

I don't think anyone has mentioned Tinkyada rice pasta yet on this thread.  If you live in Canada or the U.S., it's definitely the brand to buy!  They make it from either brown rice or white rice, plus either organic or regular -- so there are four different lines, all with a nice assortment of shapes available.  Other rice pasta we've tried tastes OK, but the texture is terrible.  Tinkyada rice pasta is simply the best pasta (of any type) that Hubby and I have ever eaten.


Carol

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Melissa_J
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have a cookie recipe that's sure to put weight on just like the wheat version  I can't find compliant chocolate chips, or else they'd even be compliant for O nonnies.  (sometime I'll try melting some unsweetened chocolate, adding agave, then hardening and breaking up, but I haven't tried that yet)

It's simple, though, just use the toll house recipe, but substute half sweet rice flour and half amaranth flour for the flour, and you can sweeten them with agave nectar, just use less and increase the dry ingredients a bit.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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italybound
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 6:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Melissa_J
It's simple, though, just use the toll house recipe, but substute half sweet rice flour and half amaranth flour for the flour, and you can sweeten them with agave nectar, just use less and increase the dry ingredients a bit.


thanks..........I think I'll try this for Rich (and I might have one or 2 w/ a cuppa joe )......he's always wanting something sweet and I just refuse to buy junk, so........might work.



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Carol the Dabbler
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 6:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Melissa -- if you find a way to make nonnie-compliant chocolate chips, please let me know!  I've tried several times with no real success.  (My attempts are still documented in the Cooking forum under "Organic A-Nonnie Chocolate?".)

The first problem is finding unsweetened chocolate that's just chocolate.  The old standard brand,  Baker's Chocolate, contains milk products.  Most of the health-food-store baking chocolate is slightly sweetened, usually with dehydrated cane juice.  But the Ghirardelli baking bar is just chocolate (though I wish it was organic).

If you add a liquid sweetener (or any liquid) to melted chocolate, the chocolate will immediately stiffen up so that you can't even finish mixing in the sweetener.  Reportedly, adding some fat first will help, but I had no particular success when I tried it with ghee.  I've also tried granular maple sugar (no help for O nonnies, I know), and had trouble getting the sugar to melt instead of staying gritty.  All of the above tasted OK, but the textures all left a great deal to be desired!

Recently I've been using grain-sweetened chips from Sunspire, but if my lab tests (in November) come back "Celiac," I'll have to stop getting those, because they contain barley malt.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

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paulam  -  Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 7:14pm
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Carol the Dabbler
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
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P.S.  One thing I have *not* tried yet is simply chopping up the unsweetened Ghirardelli bar and adding the pieces to a cookie recipe.  Large chunks would presumably be too bitter, but small bits might be just fine.  Hmmm....  


Carol

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Melissa_J
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 7:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I had some success sweetening it with veg. glycerine, long ago, though it had to be in the refrigerator afterward as it would melt at room temperature, so the chocolate chips might always be too soft.

I melted the chocolate in the microwave, 20 secs at a time, on a paper plate, then once it melted, I stirred in the glycerine (2-4 tablespoons for a whole bar, I believe it was).  After it hardened, it was easier to take off a paper plate than a hard plate.

I haven't tried it with agave.  Perhaps the glycerine is similar enough to a fat to make it easier to stir in?


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Carol the Dabbler
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 7:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think glycerine is a type of alcohol (though not the "alcoholic" kind).  I should have said the chocolate would seize up if you add anything containing water (like most liquid sweeteners).


Carol

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Alia Vo
Wednesday, September 19, 2007, 11:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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To know what grains are truly affecting you, isolate your grain(s)s to one designated grain a week.  

Sprouted grains and grain products are easier for the body to digest and are highly nutritious.

You can buy pre-made sprouted flours to make their own baked food items.  

Sprouting whole grain berries is very simple.  Sprouting usually takes one to three days depending on the grain utilized.  Buckwheat groats have one of the shortest sprouting lengths, which is one day.  

Alia


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organicmomma
Thursday, September 20, 2007, 1:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Carol_the_Dabbler

If you simply stop feeding your daughter wheat, she gets less carbohydrates and fewer calories. But if you add other carb foods in place of the wheat, she should be fine.


We have not eaten wheat in almost 4 years.  We have relyed mostly on spelt, oat, rice, rye and Ezekiel bread.

I have been making a chocolate chip oatmeal cookie out of spelt oats and rye which we really like (they don't even last a week).

My dr has suggested that I not eat any grains for at least a month, prefferably two to get myself cleaned out.  Then start adding them back in one at a time to see how I do.  I have felt better when I don't eat any grains, and I have finally started to lose a little weight.  She is talking like I may have Celiacs.

I am in the process of sprouting some lentils and mung beans.  It seems to be working.

Is flour made from beans and nuts still considered a grain?  That is where the soy flour is listed in the typebase.
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Carol the Dabbler
Thursday, September 20, 2007, 2:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I think you mis-typed one part there, ItalyBound -- soybeans really are a legume (from the bean family), not a grain (from the grass family).  So if a person is bothered only by grains, soy flour should be OK for them.  (It's sometimes listed with grains simply because people bake with it.)  Of course, a lot of people are bothered by *both* grain *and* soy, so as Alia said, you really need to experiment on yourself.

OrganicMomma -- when I said "wheat" I should have said "grains with gluten in them," which would include spelt, rye, and Ezekiel products, as well as barley -- and virtually all oats has a little wheat mixed in, since they're planted, harvested, and processed with the same equipment.  Once you're cleaned out and ready to start adding grains back in, you might want to start with the NON-gluten ones.

In fact, some of those "non-gluten grains" are not actually grains at all, which is to say, they are not from the grass family.  Amaranth and quinoa are related to spinach, and buckwheat is in the same family as rhubarb.  These foods may not bother some people who are bothered by grains, so they might be the very best "grains" for you to try right after your grain-free period.  Millet, rice, and sorghum really are grains in the grass family, (though they do *not* contain gluten), so you might want to save them till after you've tried amaranth, quinoa, and buckwheat


Carol

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md
Friday, September 21, 2007, 1:43am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Powdered cardamom is supposed to be a remedy for gluten intolerance.  Try googling "cardamom for celiac disease" to read about it.  


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Curious
Saturday, September 22, 2007, 8:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I read somewhere that people who are gluten intolerant should stay off all gluten containing grains for 3 months. Apparently it takes that long to get rid of all traces in the body. Then they should introduce them one by one and see whether they react to any of them.
I have been off gluten since I started the O-Diet about 4 or 6 weeks ago and I have been feeling so much better. For example, I always thought that I had a good digestion, but on this gluten-free diet (and O-diet), I have a fantastic digestion.
But I do like my grains and found that I can satisfy my gravings for grains with pancakes. I make them with gluten-free compliant grains, e.g. rice and quinoa, rice and millet or buckwheat would be another good one. To give you an idea - for 2 to 3 pancakes:
I grind 2/3 cup of gluten-free compliant grains in my grain-grinder
Add enough water to achieve a batter consistency
Add any spices you fancy, e.g. ginger juice is nice and so is carob
Add 2 eggs
Mix - I use a handheld mixer - mixing well is critical, else the pancakes become too hard.
Fry in pan with olive oil - ghee would be nice too.
Then the filling: You can use anything you feel like, sweet or savory. For example, I had today: A thin layer of prune-spread (or any sugar-free spread you like), Australian rasberries, loquats, and half a banana. But you could have apples, nuts, nutbutter or whatever is compliant with your blood-type.
The pancakes are also nice savory, you could add herbs such as parsley to the batter and make stir-fried vegies for the filling.
So to answer your questions: (1) I would stay off gluten-grains for 3 months, (2) that includes staying off sprouted gluten-grains and (3) I would only reintroduce them one by one after 3 months.
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Lola
Saturday, September 22, 2007, 5:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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nice crepes recipe, thanks!!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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meh206
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Quoted from Curious
I read somewhere that people who are gluten intolerant should stay off all gluten containing grains for 3 months. Apparently it takes that long to get rid of all traces in the body. Then they should introduce them one by one and see whether they react to any of them.
 

The way I understand it is that if you have an IgG allergy you can try the food again in 3 to 6 months to see if you still show an allergy but if you have an IgE allergy you should never try the food again.
When I tested allergic to gluten with IgE test the Dr. told me never to eat it again.

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