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grapefruit  This thread currently has 1,529 views. Print Print Thread
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Alek
Monday, July 16, 2007, 4:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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MIFHI


Man is the measure of all things. Protagoras.
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italybound
Monday, July 16, 2007, 4:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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it will be interesting to see where this fruit lands in GTD      thanks for the link Alek  



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Jane
Monday, July 16, 2007, 4:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Wow, that scares me!  I drink a ton of grapefruit juice.
Jane
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Alek
Monday, July 16, 2007, 5:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That was my feeling, Jane, I make my smoothies with pink grapefruit.




MIFHI


Man is the measure of all things. Protagoras.
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, July 16, 2007, 5:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Whoa.  Didn't see that one coming.

It will be a shame if that research is confirmed with further study, as there are so many great benefits of grapefruit, some of them quite unique to this fruit.

Bummer, man.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

my Facebook page
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Don
Monday, July 16, 2007, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My recommendation is just don't consume grapefruit daily. Give your body time to clear the grapefruit molecule cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) out of your body and for the body to bring your oestrogen level down to it natural/normal level.

I think that is wise because cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) can impact the detoxification of other things as well.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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ironwood55  -  Monday, July 16, 2007, 5:59pm
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rex
Monday, July 16, 2007, 5:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I agree with Don, just don't panic, everything in moderation.  I'm glad that you shared the article.  Keeping abreast of new findings is a very good thing.  
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italybound
Monday, July 16, 2007, 6:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55
My recommendation is just don't consume grapefruit daily.


I have always heard that rotation of all foods daily is important.......perhaps this is a good example of why.  




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Frances AB
Monday, July 16, 2007, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Can't help panicking - I've been eating a whole grapefruit for breakfast every day for years
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researchingthings
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 12:28am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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That's interesting. Someone remind me what actually happens when you metabolize estrogen, aside from that clearing it out of your system... what does the act of metabolizing it actually do for you?
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italybound
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 2:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Frances AB, wishing you a warm welcome to BTD and the forums!!
Don't freak out, just cut it from your diet for a while. GTD will be out in hopefully 4 or 5 mths (dare we hope?  ) and see where it falls for your blood type at that time. In the mean time if you can find a good naturopath doctor (NP) to try and balance your hormones, that would be a big help. That will prob require some saliva testing, which is  usually not covered by insurance (but won't hurt to check), but would surely be worth the money spent if it eases your mind.   A good NP can help you a great deal. Keep the faith ..........be calm  



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Mrs T O+
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 2:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a reminder why eating things in season is a good idea, although in this country so many things are available all year round, & we don't think that much about 'in season' .
It reminds me of my poor dad who just loved oranges & insisted on having them all the time.  Now we are finding how bad they are for Os & cancer.  He did succumb from bladder cancer last year after successfully having heart surgery & managing heart 'issues' for many years. He also didn't like going out in the sun & now we are  finding out how important Vitain D is for preventing certain cancers.
I somehow think that if he ate his beloved oranges only in season & got a few more minutes of sun daily, he might still be with us! He ate a very good diet including lots of leafy greens, baked fish most days per week, fresh fruit, whole grains, etc.
Thank God he made it to 90!
But, I still wonder....
Sea Salt & Light,
Mrs "T"    O+
PS So I will continue to eat grapefruit in moderation--I guess that's what I meant to say before going on this tangent!


Interested in nutrition, lactation, religion, politics; love to be around people; talkative, sensitive, goofy; a "fishy Christian" ><>; left-handed; lived on a farm, small town & big city; love BTD/GTD; A staunch La Leche League veteran; b. 10/1947 Check BTD/GTD on facebook!

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ironwood55  -  Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 2:50pm
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Becky
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 5:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I thought grapefruit was a no no for O's.  Guess I better double check.

Mrs T, my mother and my uncle both suffered from bladder cancer. I am curious to know if your father was a smoker?  My GI doctors says thats the trigger.  Personally I have little faith in him, but he is a neccessary evil until the colonoscopy results come back.  Also, was he an O?  The avoidance of sun is also an interesting commonality my mother shares.

Thankfully my mother is cancer free.  She also suffers from heart conditions.  Almost lost her about 8 years ago, they "installed" a pace maker and she is doing fine.
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Frances AB
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 5:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thank you to Lola for the welcome and information, thank you too to italybound for the reassurance. I'm over the panic today, just taking stock and planning to revise my habit of eating pretty similar things too regularly maybe. But grapefruit is my favourite fruit and I'm not a breakfast person so it's just such a nice juicy way to start the day until I can manage a few solids later on. And it's beneficial for ABs. By the way, I really like this board.
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Debra+
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 5:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hey Becky...grapefruit is a neutral for O's.  You have probably already checked, but wanted to add something before I hijacked this thread.  It concerns your mom and her pace maker.  Glad to hear that she is doing fine with it.  My mom had one also.  IF your mom ever gets an electric shock of some kind please bring her in to the specialist right away to have it checked.  My mom had a shock because of the fridge and stove in her apartment as they were not grounded and the landlady refused to fix it.  After her shock she started not feeling well and when she phoned to ask the specialist about it he didn't think that that was the cause for her not feeling well.  Now...this is speculation on our part and a few experienced electricians, but we attribute this to her getting sicker everyday.  She passed away not long after getting the electrical jolt.   We should've taken her down right away to be accessed, but her appointment was only two weeks away and we figured she would be looked at then.  I am not trying to scare you, but hopefully someone will learn from our mistake.  Obviously she had a heart problem to begin with and her doctor never requested an autopsy because of this.  We didn't push to have the pacemaker looked at either.  You tend to forget things when you are grieving and we couldn't do it afterwards because she was cremated.  Hope this helps anyone else out there too.  Thanks for letting me hijack this Alek.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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ironwood55  -  Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 5:47pm
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Frances AB
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 6:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Italybound, I forgot to ask this before and please excuse my ignorance - what is the GTD to which you're referring? Thanks for the comforting advice.
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Debra+
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 6:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Frances...italybound is referring to the new book Dr. D. is working on that will be coming out called the Genotype Diet.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

O+nonT

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Don
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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GTD = The Genotype Diet, which is the book that Dr. D is currently working on. It is scheduled to be released in Dec. 2007.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Debra+
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Eat BTD...Healthy Body... Happier Soul 'Gatherer'
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from ironwood55
GTD = The Genotype Diet, which is the book that Dr. D is currently working on. It is scheduled to be released in Dec. 2007.


Whoa...wouldn't that be a great Christmas present for the BTD family. (No pressure though).  Take slow...make nice.

Debra



"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

O+nonT

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Traditional Chinese Medicine
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italybound
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Frances_AB
By the way, I really like this board.


  I really like this board also..........have read some things on a few other boards and heard some horror stories about some others..........those things dont happen here.  The motto is:   treat everyone else like you would like to be treated.  I think we do pretty well.  

Quoted from ironwood55
GTD = The Genotype Diet, which is the book that Dr. D is currently working on. It is scheduled to be released in Dec. 2007.


OMG I'm so happy!!! I thought it wasnt scheduled until 2008!  I'll take it a month (or more) earlier......no problem!!  



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Schluggell
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 7:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
..Previous studies have shown that a molecule called cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) is involved in metabolising oestrogen hormones...


As grapefruit is an inhibitor of the process combining with foods that "induce" the process {St. Johns Wort} may help. ALso, it is specifically the Juice that is the inhibitor; so eating more of the "White part" {Pith, Bioflavonoid} may also negate the effect somewhat.

I am sure there are other foods that will do this {Starfruit is mentioned} - and probably more so than Grapefruit...Just because this is the first one they studied doesn't mean its the only one...

Curiously the 'Grapefruit' in TYPEbase {Citrus paradisi} is a different specie from that in LECster {C. medica}. I don't believe either is correct - As I remember Grapefruit being a cross{hybrid} not a natural specie {C. maxima X C. sinensis}.


Herr Schlüggell -- Establish a Garden; Cultivate Community. "To see things in the seed, that is genius. He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much. The way to do is to be." -Lao Tzu
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Frances AB
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 8:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks for all of that, I'll look forward to the book!
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ISA-MANUELA
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 12:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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ooo...aaah it is to be seen in Amazone.com in Teutonia...will go for a reservation as quick as possible ))

btw...happy that it is written....the little word *may*........ I just love grapefruits, one of my favest fruits..... when I tested it with my Vegatester it was a suppaa beneficial wavies to all grapefruit lovers ....
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lstreat
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, 1:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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didn't see that one coming at all. I eat grapefruit every morning, well I guess not anymore until they finish these studies ! Blows  me away!


Warrior: Once you're faced with a challenge, you'll keep ramming a wall until you break through — especially if that challenge is mental. Use your nimble mind and tenacity to conquer life and stick with your GenoType Diet. You're bound to succeed.
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Frances AB
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 8:19am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I see a kinesiologist regularly and spoke to him yesterday re grapefruit. His reply was quite technical and I'm not sure that I can express it properly but to sum up his thoughts - there is something in grapefruit that might be part of the problem for a small minority of women and they probably have other things going on anyway ie eating grapefruit per se isn't enough to cause breast cancer. He also suggested that I stop eating them for my own peace of mind because worrying about what you're eating isn't very healthy. By the way, he is a brilliant kinesiologist and I trust his judgement... So I'm stopping for a while and will probably go back to eating them occasionally - I absolutely love pink grapefruit and can't give them up forever. Since starting the BTD just over 5 years ago I've been having one almost every day (they're beneficial for AB) and I feel fine. Maybe if you're doing the BTD they're not a problem? (wistfully)
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Alek
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 8:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There is no need for panic. I have no intention of stopping grapefruit juice [pink] when in season. That is one of my sources of lycopene.
Everything in moderation is the best.




MIFHI


Man is the measure of all things. Protagoras.
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Henriette Bsec
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 9:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from btd_forums

There is no need for panic. I have no intention of stopping grapefruit juice [pink] when in season. That is one of my sources of lycopene.
Everything in moderation is the best.


I agree- I will continue to eat a pink grapefruit once in a while


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
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italybound
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 12:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Frances_AB
Since starting the BTD just over 5 years ago I've been having one almost every day (they're beneficial for AB) and I feel fine. Maybe if you're doing the BTD they're not a problem? (wistfully)


If they are beneficial for your blood type and you have no other health concerns, it seems it would be no worries. Of course, it will be interesting to see where they fall in GTD!!   Hopefully for you, they will still be beneficial.



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Lola
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 3:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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grapefruit juice can interfere w/ 25 dif meds:
http://groups.google.com/group.....=en#f5c2537e48a93d14


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Alek
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 3:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you Lola for the link.

There is one more with details.


http://www.qtdrugs.org/consumers/06-grapefruit-juice.htm




MIFHI


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Lola
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great site Branka!
thanks!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Alek
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 4:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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 , right spelling of my name as well.  




MIFHI


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Don
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 4:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you want even more detailed information here is a site that Dr. Crinnion provided at one of the IfHI Conferences that has a CYTOCHROME P450 DRUG-INTERACTION TABLE: DRUG INTERACTIONS | Cytochrome P450 System


FIFHI; ISTP;
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italybound
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 5:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from lola
grapefruit juice can interfere w/ 25 dif meds:


I've heard this number as high as 30 or more.    



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Lola
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Quoted Text
right spelling of my name as well

right!
was kind of liking the C lately, right?

thanks Don for that site given!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Don
Thursday, July 19, 2007, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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From the link I posted above these are the substrates that are impacted by grapefruit juice, which is an inhibitor.
Inhibitors compete with other drugs for a particular enzyme thus affecting the optimal level of metabolism of the substrate drug which in many cases affect the individual's response to that particular medication, e.g. making it ineffective.


3A4,5,7
Macrolide antibiotics:
clarithromycin
erythromycin (not 3A5)
NOT azithromycin
telithromycin

Anti-arrhythmics:
quinidine=>3-OH (not 3A5)

Benzodiazepines:
alprazolam
diazepam=>3OH
midazolam
triazolam

Immune Modulators:
cyclosporine
tacrolimus (FK506)

HIV Antivirals:
indinavir
nelfinavir
ritonavir
saquinavir

Prokinetic:
cisapride

Antihistamines:
astemizole
chlorpheniramine
terfenadine

Calcium Channel Blockers:
amlodipine
diltiazem
felodipine
lercanidipine
nifedipine
nisoldipine
nitrendipine
verapamil

HMG CoA Reductase Inhibitors:
atorvastatin
cerivastatin
lovastatin
NOT pravastatin
simvastatin

Steroid 6beta-OH:
estradiol
hydrocortisone
progesterone
testosterone

Miscellaneous:
alfentanyl
aprepitant
aripiprazole
buspirone
cafergot
caffeine=>TMU
cilostazol
cocaine
codeine- N-demethylation
dapsone
dexamethasone
dextromethorphan
docetaxel
domperidone
eplerenone
fentanyl
finasteride
gleevec
haloperidol
irinotecan
LAAM
lidocaine
methadone
nateglinide
ondansetron
pimozide
propranolol
quetiapine
quinine
risperidone
NOT rosuvastatin
salmeterol
sildenafil
sirolimus
tamoxifen
taxol
terfenadine
trazodone
vincristine
zaleplon
ziprasidone
zolpidem


FIFHI; ISTP;
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Lola
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worth taking into account when doing 'drugs'!
thanks!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Carol the Dabbler
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I ran across the news of that grapefruit/cancer study a few days ago, while looking for something else, and am just coming down from the "eek!" stage.

In the first place, a 30% higher risk factor sounds huge, and of course it *is* significant -- but it does NOT mean that an additional 30% of the population will get breast cancer, just that the group who does get it will be 30% larger (which is bad enough, of course).  For example, if one is in a group with a 10% risk factor, the 30% rise would take it up to 10% plus another 30% of that 10%, in other words 13% -- NOT 10% plus 30% (i.e., 40%)!  Even though I have two degrees in mathematics, it took me quite a while to convince my subconscious of this!

One of the articles mentioned (and I believe this was quoting the people who did the study) that it takes estrogen levels around 72 hours to come back down -- implying, I would guess, that it might behoove one to wait at least three days between, preferably more.  So I'm thinking maybe once a week (instead of once a day!).

Also, I wonder whether the Grapefruit Diet impacted this study at all.  As I understand it, the claim is that a person can lose weight by simply eating grapefruit before meals.  So I can imagine that overweight ladies might have constituted an unusually large percentage of those who ate the most grapefruit.  Since being overweight is generally considered a risk factor for breast cancer, this might have skewed the results.  (I did read that they had taken several factors into account, such as use of hormone supplements, but weight was not mentioned.)


Carol

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ironwood55  -  Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 5:17pm
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Carol the Dabbler
Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 5:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And of course they did not take blood type into account at all.  I would dearly love to know whether B's and O's (for whom grapefruit is merely Neutral) were disproportionately represented in that extra 30%.  Does grapefruit's Beneficial status win out over the cancer effect for A's and AB's?

By the way, the study did not include men or pre-menopausal women.  Also, they did not distinguish between grapefruit and its juice (though, based on its apparent effect on drugs, I would guess that the juice would be even worse).


Carol

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Curious
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I think we would need much more information about the study. Did they only investigate grapefruit? There might have been something else that increased oestrogen levels (which increases in postmenopausal women anyway because of a drop in progesterone). I can't imagine that a single fruit causes breastcancer - but maybe I am only saying this because I have a grapefruit-tree in my garden and I have eaten almost all of them (only a few left).
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Alek
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Carol the Dabbler
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Thanks, Alex -- that's the one.  As the article says, even the people who did the study consider it "preliminary," and would like to see other researchers expand on it.

Curious -- apparently grapefruit has long been known to intensify the effects of many drugs, so the researchers are making a very-educated guess that grapefruit may also intensify the effects of estrogen.  I have not heard of any other food having a similar effect on drugs.  But this is NOT to say that grapefruit "causes" breast cancer -- merely that it may increase the odds if a woman is already likely to get the disease.


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Karen74
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For those who don't want to give up eating grapefruit, but worry about these studies suggesting it elevates estrogen, it might be wise to use the NAP supplement Estraphase.  The main ingredient is Calcium D-glucarate which helps detoxify excess estrogen.
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I'm not giving up my more-than-occasional pink grapefruit for anybody. At the moment, anyhow.


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Quoted from Carol_the_Dabbler
I have not heard of any other food having a similar effect on drugs.

That chart that I posted the link for shows that star fruit is in the same category as grapefruit juice.

There are also a few foods that are listed in the inducer section.


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Curious
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Quoted from btd_forums


Thanks Alek, for this study. I think it summarises it really well - as a preliminary finding which may or may not turn out to be right. I also think, as some of you pointed out, it shows that food rotation is good - in my case - when the grapefruits from my tree are eaten, I won't buy any grapefruit and wait until next year when my tree has got them again. Curious
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ooo...aaah it is to be seen in Amazone.com in Teutonia...will go for a reservation as quick as possible ))

btw...happy that it is written....the little word *may*........ I just love grapefruits, one of my favest fruits..... when I tested it with my Vegatester it was a suppaa beneficial wavies to all grapefruit lovers ....


Pardon my newness.. but what pray tell is a "Vegatester".. sounds vaguely intriguing!  I eat (or used to eat..) quite a lot of "exotic" or unusual fruits and veggies.. many of which are not listed on the charts or lectin lists.. if there is a home test option, I would love to know more!

Bright Blessings,
Stephen

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Alia Vo
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Thank you for sharing the link with us, Alek.

Alia


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