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Original Blood Type  This thread currently has 2,345 views. Print Print Thread
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Don
Monday, February 26, 2007, 6:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from nettik
Think about it- Type O was the 1st on the planet, the most common type in the world...

Welcome nettik,

Actually, type A is currently believed to be the original and oldest human type, not O.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Tuesday, September 18, 2007, 3:47am
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europa2001
Monday, February 26, 2007, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Really???
Can you explain - I sure would be interested to hear when that changed.  Can you direct me?
Thanks!
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Don
Monday, February 26, 2007, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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I don't have a link handy, but Dr. D did discuss the issue here on the forum a long time ago.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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semmens
Monday, February 26, 2007, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I had never heard this either Don...I thought all the books said O was the oldest. I would love to see more info, though.
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jayney-O
Monday, February 26, 2007, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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this is so interesting...because I thought the adaptation (typeA) was to agriculture.....hence grains, but I am open to finding out that there was some grainy grass that early man lived on or some such....
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nettik
Monday, February 26, 2007, 8:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Right...I thought the same thing.  Isn't the order of appearance O-A-B-AB?  O would have been hunter-gatherer, (and wheat, corn, and other grains aren't too tasty raw, so they probably didn't eat much of it, or have access to dairy too easily, causing them not to have proper digestive enzymes for these foods), and the progression to AB, as the newest type, explaining why AB has the widest range of OK food choices.
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Don
Monday, February 26, 2007, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Location: North Alabama
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That is the order they became prevalent or common, but apparently not the order of existence.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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europa2001
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 2:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Although this issue is not important to my diet, I feel that it is an important issue - an issue that I think would have garnered an important anouncment.  I'm not sure how "O" could be a universal donor ia "A" came before "O."  See my point?  It doesn't seem to make sense to me.  It would be great if we could get some hard evidence from the Doc himself on this issue.
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MommytoEliana
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 2:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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semmens
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 2:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
It would be great if we could get some hard evidence from the Doc himself on this issue.


Count me in the "me too" camp here...I'd liike something more specific than "it was discussed here once". I've been reading this forum faithfully for over a year, besides reading all the books, and this is the first I've heard of this.
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europa2001
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 3:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mommy_to_Eliana



Thanks! From the info in the Wiki article, it seems to me the chemical structure of "O" is the basis for all the other blood types - the others coming about because of various different molecules being added to the basic "O" structure.

I still can't get it out of my head that Dr D said that "A" is only 10,000 years old and "O" was the oldest. Still would like to "hear" it from him.
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Don
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 3:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from Is the first ABO blood type A or O ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_diet#_note-17
In the article "Genetic of the ABO blood system and its link with the immune system" [17], Luiz C. de Mattos and Haroldo W. Moreira point out that in order to agree with D'Adamo's assertion that the O blood type was the first human blood type to appear, you need to accept that the O gene evolved before the A and B genes in the ABO locus. However, after constructing phylogenetic networks of human and non-human ABO alleles, Saitou and Yamamoto concluded that the A gene represents the ancestral form.[18] Thus, in the evolutionary sense, it is difficult to believe that normal genes like A and B have evolved from abnormal genes like O.

They go on to say:

   The three most common O genes identified in different populations are O1, O1v (variant) and O2.[19][20][21][22][23] Compared to the ancestral form, the O1 and O1v genes have a deletion of a G base in exon 6 (guanine in position 261) and show additional nucleotide differences.[24] The O2 gene does not have the G deletion but has a substitution (G802A) in exon 7, which appears to abolish its function.[25],[26] Although the O blood type is common in all populations around the world,[27] there is no evidence that the O gene represents the ancestral gene at the ABO locus. Nor is it reasonable to suppose that a defective gene would arise spontaneously and then evolve into normal genes.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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europa2001
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 3:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Oh, OK...

So, does Dr. D agree with them on this? When did this revision happen? Since LRYBT? I would think he would address this in more than just a passing reference - which can't even be found at this point.

I may have to shoot him a question.

Thanks for the welcom Sun.  

How do I show my Rh status? I can't seem to find it on my profile setup. Also, what do the "scales" below your name signify?
Thanks!


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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 3:58pm
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jayney-O
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 6:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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thanks, Modon, but what's with the description, "defective gene"(O) and "normal gene" (A,B)...????
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Don
Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from europa2001
Thanks for the welcom Sun.  

How do I show my Rh status? I can't seem to find it on my profile setup. Also, what do the "scales" below your name signify?
Thanks!

You can add information below your avatar setting, such as Rh+/-, MN blood typing information or whatever else you want to, by going to the Profile Information section in the Member Center and typing in the Personal Message box.

You can also create a Signature of any other information you want to share that will go at the bottom of every message you post.

The scales indicates that I am one of the BTD Forums moderators.

MoDon is my screen name. Sun Beh Nim is my title. You can read about the Belt, Title, and Color System. I also encourage you to read the other threads in the Reference Section.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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apositive
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 2:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from europa2001
Really???
Can you explain - I sure would be interested to hear when that changed. Can you direct me?
Thanks!


The information was probably presented in more specialized forums earlier, but the article "Molecular genetic basis of the histo-blood group ABO system" appeared in  Nature in 1990 (Yamamoto and others).


INTJ
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Don
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 2:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Location: North Alabama
Age: 59


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Dr. D
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 4:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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The whole thing is more complicated that any one take on things. The majority of the links between blood type and anthropology are the result of 'genetic drift' and the 'founder effect'. The appearance of blood type O as a 'primordial' type was advanced first by anthropologists such as Jaenecke and Brues. It was also suggested by Mourant. of course, these people functioned in the pre-molecular days of genetics, and the feeling was that the occurence of type O in such great percentages in otherwise 'isolated' populatis (such as the Basques and Inuits) suggested that 'untocuhed' populations may have not gotten the later genes. This was too greatly simplified in ERFYT, but the fact does remain that type O may well have been numerically found in much greater amounts in earlier times, probably due to aspects of its resistance to som eof the more common infectious diseases (having two opposing blood group antibodies, anti-A and anti-B probably conveys survival advantages)


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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jayney-O
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 5:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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but what's the meaning of "defective" (O) and normal(A,B)
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Dr. D
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 6:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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I think they mean 'null gene' (i.e the gene doesn't make anything)


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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semmens
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 7:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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So Dr. D,....is type A the original and oldest blood type, or not?

Thanks!
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apositive
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ee Dan
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Quoted from jayney-O
but what's the meaning of "defective" (O) and normal(A,B)

In discussions I read on the matter, this sort of terminology was used to describe the evolutionary or mutation process.  It makes more sense when you see depictions of the A, B and O molecules, but, very simply, the A and B molecules are more complex than O.  So, speculation was that, based on other mutations that have been observed in nature, it was more likely that the simpler type O developed from more complex type A than the other way around, with the a "defective" O developing into A and/or B.


INTJ
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Dr. D
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Quoted from apositive

In discussions I read on the matter, this sort of terminology was used to describe the evolutionary or mutation process.  It makes more sense when you see depictions of the A, B and O molecules, but, very simply, the A and B molecules are more complex than O.  So, speculation was that, based on other mutations that have been observed in nature, it was more likely that the simpler type O developed from more complex type A than the other way around, with the a "defective" O developing into A and/or B.


True to a point. For instance, wheat plants have more genes than humans, but no one would argue that humans came before wheat plants.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand
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Dr. D
Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 9:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
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Quoted from semmens
So Dr. D,....is type A the original and oldest blood type, or not?

Thanks!


I doubt it. I would more likely believe that the alleles are of equal age, but that phenotypically type O was always more numerous percentage-wise. All three blood types are the result of mutations; however the A and B mutations are more like each other than either is like group O.

The difference between having the gene for type A blood or type B blood is a variation of a mere seven letters out of the total of 1,062 that make up the entire gene. We even know exactly where they differ: letters number 523, 700, 793 and 800. If you are type A blood, you have C,G,C,G in these locations, whereas if you are type B blood you have G,A,A,C there instead. These are called 'point mutations' because they are a simple one-letter misspelling in a gene, unless as in the case of blood type it is a consistent variation, in which case it is called a polymorphism.

The type O gene mutation is even more interesting. It is a 'frame shift mutation'; if you are type O you may be surprised to discover that rather than having a difference of letters, like A and B, type O is missing one letter, number 258, entirely.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Wednesday, February 28, 2007, 9:04pm
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europa2001
Thursday, March 1, 2007, 9:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Dr. D and others for clearing that ABO legacy up. As with most things - it's more complex than it seems!  Interesting.
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