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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  An inconvenient partial truth?
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An inconvenient partial truth?  This thread currently has 775 views. Print Print Thread
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ieatmeatnlikeit
Sunday, February 4, 2007, 6:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Autumn: Harvest, success.
Posts: 223
I just read this and as it was full of links to "the sources of wisdom" I thought I'd try to share the link.  There is plenty of  grist for the mill here and I would like some fair challenges to address the general vegetarian greatness presented. Here goes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-few-more-inconvenient-_b_40261.html
Oh dear I guess that isn't going to be so convenient either Sorry folks.
Iemnli
p.s. How about that it worked!
My dear mother used to quip that a vegetarian was someone who couldn't hear a radish scream. I wonder what Kathy's copper levels look like? But seriously I wish more people would study the food they eat and consume proper amounts, and turn out the lights not required and wear the clean shirt a day or two longer and ride that bicycle, put on that sweater, remember to bring a bunch of string bags to the supermarket. These are not really just inconvenient truths they're so obvious it make one want to scream.


love or perish, sing or croak,recycle or regret, write or read, think or thwim.

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KimonoKat
Sunday, February 4, 2007, 6:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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From the article:

Quoted Text
And I just learned from the brilliant Dr. Andrew Weil......


ROFLMAO....  Sooooo, tell me when Dr. Weil started seing patients?

If he's so brilliant, why is he still over weight?


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Alia Vo
Sunday, February 4, 2007, 7:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Kyosha Nim
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Thank you for sharing with us the article link.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
Minneapolis, Minnesota
BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
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ieatmeatnlikeit
Sunday, February 4, 2007, 8:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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It is my pleasure!  I do hope the suitable refutations will pour forth. As an O I must needs question my food of choice wisely and have good arguments ready to parry the global warming trends that are sure to rise with the oceans during the remainder of my life. I recall some comment awhile back about vegetarian -O- diet and how it is possible. Not wishing to sound or be snide I would be open to a veg-O-tarian option. I am so fond of Bison though. When she quoted whomever it was about the danger of even grass fed meat I had to wonder what page is she on?
Iemnli


love or perish, sing or croak,recycle or regret, write or read, think or thwim.
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Melissa_J
Monday, February 5, 2007, 12:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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I agree that factory farming isn't good, partly because of the fields of corn required to feed it and the fertilizers and junk they put on the corn...  Corn certainly is not environmentally friendly.

I've been meaning to read The Omnivore's Dilemma for a while, it might be a bit less biased.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Debra+
Monday, February 5, 2007, 2:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from Melissa_J
I agree that factory farming isn't good, partly because of the fields of corn required to feed it and the fertilizers and junk they put on the corn... Corn certainly is not environmentally friendly.

I've been meaning to read The Omnivore's Dilemma for a while, it might be a bit less biased.


I had heard abit about this book on CBC radio a couple of weeks ago.  If you go to the site you can get the introduction and the first chapter.  Waiting for the book from interlibrary loan as ours did not have it.

Debra



"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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OSuzanna
Monday, February 5, 2007, 3:26am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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So many books to buy, so little time to read them all...sigh...
That's on my speed-read-it-in-the-bookstore-to-see-if-I-want-to-buy-it list.


OSuzanna
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Schluggell
Monday, February 5, 2007, 1:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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How soon we forget John Robbin's Book "Diet for a New America" that spawned the group: http://www.EarthSave.org

His book presents a multitude of facts about how mass-produced meat affects us all.
For example several large communities having to be evacuated because the manure dams for the stockyards burst...


Herr Schlggell -- Establish a Garden; Cultivate Community. "To see things in the seed, that is genius. He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much. The way to do is to be." -Lao Tzu
Bruno Manser, Ned Lud, August Sabbe, Richard St. Barbe-Baker, Eddie Koiki Mabo, Masanobu Fukuoka
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, February 5, 2007, 2:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from KimonoKat
If he's so brilliant, why is he still over weight?

Okay, I am NOT a Dr. Weil fan, and I don't like being in a position where I feel I have to defend him (shudder), but I just must pipe up and say in an overly-sensitive way that one can be smart and know all the right things to do, diet-wise (not that Dr. Weil does...and not that he is that all-fired smart either...okay, I'm not helping my argument/point here...moving on...), and still struggle mightily with one's weight. For some of us, it is truly a gigantic (no pun intended) challenge, KK.

I'm a tad sensitive about it right now...all I'm saying is, just because someone is overweight, doesn't mean that they don't know a lot about nutrition and diet. But hormones/stress/etc. can often be so much more powerful drivers and choice-makers than knowledge.

That said, Weil doesn't have a clue about diet. I'm simpatico with you on that point. Maybe if he did, his own weight would not be a tad over-the-top as it is, I will give you that. But all I'm saying is, even if he DID have a nutritional clue, sometimes it isn't as easy as knowing what the right thing to do is and being smart. I say again that weight is a huge challenge for some of us, whether we have a clue or not and whether we are brilliant, dumb, or anywhere in between, ya know?




"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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KimonoKat
Monday, February 5, 2007, 5:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I disagree that Weil has a full understanding about the dynamics of what it takes for individuals to lose weight.  I've read Dr. Grey Kelly's critique of Dr. Weil, and that analysis said it all for me.  

I don't know if it's still available on the net, and I'm totally flummoxed that I can't find the paper copy that I printed out to quote from.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Peppermint Twist
Monday, February 5, 2007, 5:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from KimonoKat
I disagree that Weil has a full understanding about the dynamics of what it takes for individuals to lose weight. I've read Dr. Grey Kelly's critique of Dr. Weil, and that analysis said it all for me.

I don't know if it's still available on the net, and I'm totally flummoxed that I can't find the paper copy that I printed out to quote from.


, re: "flummoxed"...*tee hee*. I agree that Weil does NOT have an accurate understanding of human nutrition, reductionist or otherwise. He is still on the whole-grain, low-fat bandwagon, far as I can discern. I am 100% with you on Weil. I guess I just get sensitive when anyone says, "well, if so-and-so (Weil or anyone) is so brilliant, why are they overweight?", as it kinda sorta makes it sound like, if you are smart enough and/or knowledgeable enough, you should not have a weight problem. And, sadly, in my experience, it doesn't necessarily work that way.* There are sooooo many forces/factors that go into weight gain, weight maintenance and weight loss, and brilliance and proper knowledge of nutrition are only two of them. Two important ones, but just two of many, nonetheless.  Dat's all I'm sayin'.

* Ditto for if you have enough "will power" or self-discipline, you would not be overweight.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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ieatmeatnlikeit  -  Monday, February 5, 2007, 5:48pm
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KimonoKat
Monday, February 5, 2007, 5:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
There are sooooo many forces/factors that go into weight gain, weight maintenance and weight loss, and brilliance and proper knowledge of nutrition are only two of them.  Dat's all I'm sayin'.


Which goes exactly to my point as to what Dr. Weil has said in response to losing weight.  And I'm paraphrasing here because I can't remember it exactly,

To lose weight you have to eat less and exercise more.  It's that simple.

Dr. Kelly had a brilliant rebuttal to that (and then some) and I'm quite exasperated because I can't find it lol!


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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jayney-O
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Okay...I have to sound off here: No to support Dr. Weil, (I am neutral to friendly) but as he once said when asked why he was overwight....he said "I love my body and don;t thinkk there;'s anything wrong with it...my genetics have indicated that it should consevrve calories in a way that may not result in a fashion model" or some such thing...point being to stay in shape, exercize, etc. which he does. In other words, he is not necessarily overweight, just built to be paunchy, and keepoing it under control with exercize.
(his diet advise is ....standard)

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KimonoKat
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I'm sorry.  He can sail along with his beliefs, but that doesn't mean I agree with his logic or the message he gives himself to explain why he looks the way he does.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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jayney-O
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I don't think he is bad looking (but I'm 59)...and I fully endorse his healthy respect and love for the body that heredity prepared for him. (with all due respect for KK, et al)

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Peppermint Twist
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from KimonoKat


Which goes exactly to my point as to what Dr. Weil has said in response to losing weight. And I'm paraphrasing here because I can't remember it exactly,

To lose weight you have to eat less and exercise more. It's that simple.

Now, on this (the infuriation quotient of your Dr. Weil quote*) we agree totally, girl. You are so right that Weil himself is one who seems to believe it is simply calories in, calories out. INFURIATING. My co-worker, Kay, feels the same way.

So, why can I balloon out on RICE CAKES? And, Dr. Weilipoo, don't say it is the fat/oil I put on them, because I can put the same fat/oil on broccoli and not gain an ounce. No, trust me, I am irked by Weil just as you are and for the same reasons. We are simpatico.

My only point was just that "brilliance" has nothing--or, not nothing, but it is not the ONLY thing--to do with the ability to lose weight. One can be smart, knowledgeable about nutrition, AND overweight. True, only the last one of those things applies to Weil himself *lol*, but one could be all three.

* edited to add: which I think you got exactly right because I'm sure I've heard him say that exact thing. It infuriated me so much that I have total recall on it *lol*!!!


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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KimonoKat
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Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from jayney-O
I don't think he is bad looking (but I'm 59)...and I fully endorse his healthy respect and love for the body that heredity prepared for him. (with all due respect for KK, et al)


Of course!  You're entitled to your opinion.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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KimonoKat
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Peppy,

The article that was referenced called Dr. Weil "brilliant."

I don't agree that he's brilliant.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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Brighid45
Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Okay, I managed to get through the entire blog entry finally. It took several tries, because as far as I can see, this is the same old argument fundie vegetarians trot out any time anyone admits to eating meat.

I agree, factory farming and cruel slaughterhouse practices are an abomination. I've seen the actual slaughterhouses--they are terrible places. I do my best to buy meat that is at least somewhat removed from this process and am actively planning to buy locally raised meat from small farmers who practice humane and respectful methods. And yes, people do use the excuses listed to justify perpetuating atrocities on animals so they can buy cheap meat and eat way too much of it.

HOWEVER--I suggest the author visit (if she is allowed) a 'farm' in California, where the crops are all F1 hybrids bred solely for ease of harvest and shipping,grown in huge fields thousand of acres in size, again designed solely for the ease of mechanical harvest. Or take a walk through a cornfield in Iowa. The soil is dead, or nearly so; it has to be pumped full of concentrated fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides; it is an inert, lifeless medium where even earthworms won't go. Most fields in the west are watered with water diverted from large rivers like the Colorado (which has been seriously compromised for decades by such diversions and is a major source of water rights battles) or pumped from underground aquifers, practices which destroy watersheds. The runoff from the watering erodes the soil and dumps it into the local ecosystem, poisoning it with chemicals. Add runoff from manure lagoons or animal pens and you get E. coli outbreaks such as occurred with spinach and lettuce last year.

I take issue with the statement that eating ANY meat is destructive to the environment. Untrue! Animals raised on small farms, where the farmer uses permaculture techniques and is dedicated to selling locally (transporting vegetables and meat across thousands of miles is one of the major sources of pollution on the planet), do not destroy ecosystems. Responsible farming practices enhance and promote quality over quantity and bring healthy, live fresh foods to the community for the enjoyment and benefit of all.

Until I hear fundie vegetarians protesting the factory farming of produce as loudly and with as much venom as they protest eating meat, I'm not really interested in anything they have to say. Blanket statements full of fanatical half-truths do nothing but raise the level of noise from all the shouting. Imo, of course.

Btw, I do not consider all vegetarians to be fundies. I used to be a vegetarian once upon a time. There is a vocal minority who act as if they speak for all, and they are the ones I have trouble with.


Everyone is entitled to his or her informed opinion. --H. Ellison

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jayney-O
Monday, February 5, 2007, 9:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I'd be one in a heartbeat if I could get excellent health that way! In fact, I tell people I am just giving meat eating a try.... seeing if it is better for me...so far, it seems so...
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