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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  A Safe Appetite Suppressant?
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A Safe Appetite Suppressant?  This thread currently has 3,964 views. Print Print Thread
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Tina
Friday, December 15, 2006, 1:22am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Can anyone direct me to a safe appetitie suppressant?  I just would like to try something because no matter how hard I try, it seems I am still eating too much, healthily I must say, but still just too much and it is so hard to scale back for me.  I can do it, but I have to think about it constantly.  

I am exercising every day, doing well on that and toning up a lot, but I want to lose 5-10 pounds around my middle.  I am doing plenty of cardio, aerobics, and now started some core stuff.  I am also strength training 3 times a week.  I love that, but my husband and I were wondering if an appetite suppressant would be a good idea.  We just have too much at our disposal, which is a blessing in this country, and yet it is soooooo hard to stay at a healthy weight.

Any ideas for safe herbs/supplements for suppressing appetite?  I am O-nonnie and hubby is B sec.  

Tina
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Lola
Friday, December 15, 2006, 1:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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L-glutamine to increase levels of
serotonin, as well as L-tyrosine can regulate your appetite.

how are your estrogen levels?
taking 1-2 capsules of the herb maca
helps normalize estrogen levels and also regulates your appetite.
http://www.emofree.com/
a 'system' of focusing on a specific
issue (cravings, smoking, compulsive eating) and tapping
in a particular sequence on specific
acupressure points on the body.......these are safe methods to help you control certain food issues.

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive5/config.pl?read=11740
.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

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Tina
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Lola,
I think I should try the maca.  Do you take it?  

I do take Seacure which has amino acids in it, and I think that helps a lot.  What about chorella?  Is this a good thing for O nons to take?  I read it helps with appetite suppression.

Thanks,
Tina
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Don
Friday, December 15, 2006, 4:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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If you eat a lot of protein, for instance red meat, it will act as a natural appetite suppressor. It will also help you lose weight.


FIFHI; ISTP;
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Victoria
Friday, December 15, 2006, 4:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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An herb called Jiaogulan (Gynostemma) is an appetite modulator, also tones the metabolism so that you burn calories better.  Available at the health food stores under the Plum Flower brand, and from the Dragon Herbs company, out of California:  tollfree, 888-558-6642

Chlorella is good for all blood types, and I think it does supress the appetite.  It is so rich in nutrients, it most likely lets the body know it doesn't really need a whole lot else!  



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Lola
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no, I do not take maca......perhaps if symptoms surface, I might........


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
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Tina
Friday, December 15, 2006, 1:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks guys.  I'm just really concerned, MoDon, of eating too much protein.  I have read it is not good for a person to eat too much.  I know bodybuilders do it though, and I used to as well when I was on the SCD diet, which is no grain, no sugar, and I was thin, but I just don't know about it.  Moneywise, protein like that is expensive!  Except for the eggs I get, which I eat.  

How much protein is okay?

Tina
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Don
Friday, December 15, 2006, 2:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I find eating a lot of red meat is self limiting. If I eat a lot at a meal then I don't want to eat again for a many hours, and therefore I may only eat 2 meals that day. The positives are I am never hungry and I can lose fat weight when I do that.


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Friday, December 15, 2006, 2:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hi Tina,

There is a problem with protein/amino acid sufficiency.  Last winter, my chiro (who has special training) said that my gut would not digest/utilize almost all amino acids (then).  What he thought was a large problem, for me fit right in with the concept that protein needs/requirements vary greatly each season ... winter is the time of rest so, little is required.  In summer, muscle mass grows, work increases, and immunity against insects increases; etc - so, protein/amino acid requirements peak.

these are just exploratory thoughts ... I have never seen actual numbers suggested.  Excess protein just does not willingly leave the body unused, but it can putrefy and cause all kinds of havok in the GI tract.  How much is enough and WHEN is it enough ??????????

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Don
Friday, December 15, 2006, 2:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I remember watching a TV documentary show about the "coldest town in the world" which was claimed to be in Russia. The people raised reindeer or something like that. I specifically remember the reporter stating that their diet was almost 100% red meat and that it was critical for their survival in the cold temperatures. Therefore it would seem that more protein may be important in colder winter weather.

The other thing I remember from the show that I thought was interesting was that all of technology oriented devices that the reporter brought with him would not work properly in the severe cold temperatures!


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Peppermint Twist
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Excellent topic and responses, wow.  I would just add that, for some reason unfathomable to moi, glucosamine sulfate seems to suppress my appetite a little.

I also agree with the other suggs in this great thread, including MoDon's point that quality protein is key.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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resting
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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MoDon,

I loves such input ... because it may not have been the protein that was being utilized but animal fat.  In cold climates (on cold days) this is an absolutely essential part of native (arctic - Inuit) eating.  The protein derived from the meat was/is of less importance.  These two facets actually reverse in importance winter to summer!

what-do-ya-think????????????????

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Peppermint Twist
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John, another great point!  Fat is very key to feeling sated and to keeping our brain chemistry, among other things, happy and peppy and bursting with love.  Thanks for pointing that out.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Don
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I would think that the reindeer meat they were eating would have been fairly lean.

http://www.exoticmeats.com/store/index.php?cPath=24_36

http://reindeer.salrm.uaf.edu/html/78tables.html

Quoted from Quality Assessment of Reindeer Meat -
http://reindeer.salrm.uaf.edu/html/Cir78.html

Nutritional quality
Despite the higher saturated fat content of reindeer, consumers who eat reindeer rather than an equal-sized portion of beef, lamb or pork will consume much lower levels of saturated fats due to the lower total fat content.

Concluding Remarks
From a nutritional perspective, Alaskan reindeer should appeal to health-conscious consumers who wish to reduce their fat intake while consuming red meat. The forequarters evaluated were representative of animals harvested during the spring handling; different results may be found if animals slaughtered during handlings at other times of the year were studied.


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mikeo
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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list of O nonnie high satisfaction foods that control appetite and keep you feeling full longer according to study at the university of Sidney in Australia

fish..beneficial and neutral varieties
steak
baked beans..beneficial and neutral varieties
grapes
eggs
brown rice
bananas

might also look into increasing your metabolic rate by increasing active muscle mass and using supps like bladderwrack or aromatose inhibitors

Also incorporate seaweeds into your diet and a cup or two of green tea if not sensitive to caffeine



RHN MIfHI

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lola  -  Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:45pm
lola  -  Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:41pm
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Vicki
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mike,

I do find salmon, especially filet/steak. to be very filling.  I can eat a lot more turkey/lamb/chicken.  
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Don
Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mikeo
lAlso incorporate seaweeds into your diet...

Good suggestion. I find that snacking on seaweed quickly quells any cravings I might be having.



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MoDon,

I very much agree with your assessment of reindeer as being a very lean meat (most wild meat is too - moose, venison, seal, etc).  However, we are talking about deriving energy (heat) from food, it ain't the protein but the fat that the mitochondria burns as fuel.  I am certain that these people also ate huge portions of animal-fat to remain healthy in a cold environment.  [Perhaps this was 'lost' or 'edited-out' as part of the filming process.]

It would be great if Henriette would plug-in to this discussion.

Mikeo, it's obvious from this selection of foods that environment (temperature) plays a very small role in selecting foods.  Query:  Since you live in Toronto, Canada and 'winterize' your car, should you also not get 'winterized'?  Or, do you run on the same fuel (tropical fruits = summer gasoline) ... or fill your radiator the same, year round?  The Aussie list of comfort-foods is for what-season .... a notion of one-size-fits-all, eh?  Rather than blood types, is it OK for a one size-fits-all concept for different seasons?

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Tina
Friday, December 15, 2006, 8:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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So, if seaweed is good, would chorella be a good choice?  Is it hard to digest for an O nonnie?

I am thinking of ordering this chorella.  I just cannot seem to eat red meat too much.  It makes me feel lethargic and too heavy!  And, I just don't like too much of it, once or twice a week.  I do like the Bison meat though, but talk about expensive!  These lean healthy red meats are pricey and we just can't afford to eat that much.  Any other nonnies like this?

Here's the chorella site

http://www.oceansidepublishing.....a5dd262967b7ea18afa2

They also have a maca called MacaSure that I think I am going to order also.  Tell me what you think.

Tina
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lroys73
Friday, December 15, 2006, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I recently had a live blood analysis done and it showed I have Rouleau which is red blood cells linked in chains caused from poor digestion. The diagnostician said I could run a marathon and not lose any weight and I should take Digest Gold. I also like to eat a lot and other symptoms of Rouleau are fatigue and heartburn/indigestion. Maybe you should try that or another digestive enzyme.
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Drea
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Quoted from ironwood55

Good suggestion. I find that snacking on seaweed quickly quells any cravings I might be having.



What kind of seaweed to you typically snack on? Sometimes I find myself just craving nori, and I can eat several sheets in one sitting (I buy packages of 50 at the local asian market - much cheaper than the HFS).


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Quoted from outdoordrea


What kind of seaweed to you typically snack on? Sometimes I find myself just craving nori, and I can eat several sheets in one sitting (I buy packages of 50 at the local asian market - much cheaper than the HFS).


Good Question, Drea!

I've never eaten seaweed, and I don't know what nori is--but I'm sure willing to give it a try!

My.


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
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Lola
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nori is what they use to roll up sushi with.
nori sheets are my substitute tortillas down here. lol


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Tina
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 5:40am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Today, my appetite has been more suppressed.  I took my Seacure capsules about 20-30 minutes before eating, and I wasn't as hungry today.  I think the amino acids in them, namely the tyrosine and glutamine, do help with lowering appetite.  It was sort of slight, not a dramatic change, but enough to take the edge of the overeating compulsion.  Yay!!!  

So, it's a start, and I got into a pair of size smaller pants I had hanging up from a year or so ago, from before I got pregnant this last time.  They actually fit, although a bit tight around the waist, but at least I could wear them!!!

Decided I must only have my one piece of sourdough brown rice bread for breakfast and no more grains the rest of the day.  This seems to be going well.

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Tina
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 5:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Also, got started working out again every day except Sundays for going on 4 weeks now.  I am loving it and just feel so much stronger and better.  It is sooooooooooo true that O's need that exercise.  I think especially nonnies!

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Lola
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one slice of bread everyday seems like a lot of servings a week, to me.......think nonnies are allowed 0 to 3 servings a week, if I m not mistaken.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Tina
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 6:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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You are right, but I have been eating one each morning.  I guess I'll try and cut a few days out...  
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Tina
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 6:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What can I eat instead to accompany my eggs and blueberries?
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Quoted from Tina
What can I eat instead to accompany my eggs and blueberries?


How 'bout a nice steaming cup of Black Cocoa?    

Love,

My.


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
http://www.stillspeaking.com

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ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 9:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I know only one plant which is called* healiantus tuberosus* = topinambur,  which is taken as a natural appetitereducer...but I saw it wasn't ok for us, the AB's
but in ancient tradition it's taken furthermore for diabetics.
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Sunday, December 17, 2006, 3:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tina
What can I eat instead to accompany my eggs and blueberries?


Anything really - leftover veg from the night before?

It is very much a case of getting your head round the idea that grain is not needed for breakfast  or any other meal...and that breakfast need not include foods which you grew up to consider as breakfast...imho.

Once you have achieved that mental switch the question is no longer one of substitutes but one of more or less appealing combinations of food, which makes life a lot less complicated...  
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Don
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Quoted from koahiatamadl
Anything really - leftover veg from the night before?

It is very much a case of getting your head round the idea that grain is not needed for breakfast  or any other meal...and that breakfast need not include foods which you grew up to consider as breakfast...imho.

Once you have achieved that mental switch the question is no longer one of substitutes but one of more or less appealing combinations of food, which makes life a lot less complicated...  

Nicely stated and I agree with you.



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Laura P
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ditto to both of you.  


I also would like to point out to you Tina, that you have been posting about this rice bread that you eat, and how it doesn't bother you and you eat it every morning and do well with it and feel it is needed. I have found with myself that when there is something it in that I have a hard time picturing being without..........that thing is often a problem



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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I like to eat brazilian collard greens for breakfast, with eggs.  Refried compliant beans are also nice now and then.  I like to take most any leftovers and scramble those up with a couple eggs, then add spices or salsa.


Type O+ blogger, secretor afterall. Gluten intolerant. With two gluten intolerant sons:  A+ Secretor 10 yo (also fructose intolerant and slightly egg allergic), and  O- 7yo.
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Alia Vo
Monday, December 18, 2006, 1:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Good quality seaweed is a powerhouse of nutrition and a good ABO-compliant snack.

It does seem to be satisfying when I add it to my meals.  I sometimes add a little amount of cut up wakame, nori, or kelp to my salads for its saltiness, flavor, and texture.  

Alia


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Quoted from outdoordrea
What kind of seaweed to you typically snack on?

I can buy kelp cut up into bite size pieces at a local asian grocery store and they make a convenient easy to eat snack. I am currently out of the kelp pieces and have been snacking on some wakame, which I think is a type of kelp.

I don't care to snack on dulse.


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I am opposite, I love dulse and nori but am not a big fan of wakame or kelp, kombu is good cooked nice and soft in soups but only if cooked for a long time



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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
MoDon,

I very much agree with your assessment of reindeer as being a very lean meat (most wild meat is too - moose, venison, seal, etc).  However, we are talking about deriving energy (heat) from food, it ain't the protein but the fat that the mitochondria burns as fuel.  I am certain that these people also ate huge portions of animal-fat to remain healthy in a cold environment.  [Perhaps this was 'lost' or 'edited-out' as part of the filming process.]

It would be great if Henriette would plug-in to this discussion.

Mikeo, it's obvious from this selection of foods that environment (temperature) plays a very small role in selecting foods.  Query:  Since you live in Toronto, Canada and 'winterize' your car, should you also not get 'winterized'?  Or, do you run on the same fuel (tropical fruits = summer gasoline) ... or fill your radiator the same, year round?  The Aussie list of comfort-foods is for what-season .... a notion of one-size-fits-all, eh?  Rather than blood types, is it OK for a one size-fits-all concept for different seasons?

John


Sorry John- a bit stressed so I did not see your comment.
Well I have to agree with John - IF there was no fat it was was edited out!!
From archeology ( that is my field) and from my knowledge of people in Greenland. people has ALWAYS craved fat in cold climate- they just know that you can not survive on a diet of lean meat( BUT strange enough fat AND protein is OK )
The marrow is taken out- kidneyfat is highly valued- as well as a brain (fatty)
The inuits in Greenland eats plenty of fat and stay rather slim ( they are sturdy - but not fat- if they keep to their trad. diet !).
The best threat is fat from seals, whales etc. BUT they would never trow away fat from reindeer or other rather lean land animals.
I am quite certain that people in different climates need different food- no matter their BT.
It is not wise to eat a lot of tropical fruits in a cold climate in wintertime -not for your body or your moneywallet


ENFP -naturalist, visual/spatial and musical/verbal/chatty Dane- Mother to DD Emma age 19,
0 rh- secr ( Hunter or Explorer )
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I never said the fat part wasn't important. I was just saying that there probably is nothing wrong with a high protein diet in the winter. If the the people living in the town in Russia, that I commented about, were eating mainly reindeer meat and it was fairly lean, then they must be getting a fair amount of protein in their diet. That was my main point.

Of course even with the high red meat protein diet they would also get a fair amount of fat too, which would be important for an energy source in cold temperatures.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Sorry- I only read Johns post...


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I am still looking for reseach proving that too much protein is bad and of course, if it is, why?Also, how much is too much?

On the BBC they once had a documentary where they talked about several research that hade been carried out to determine what produces satiety.

The program concluded that the most satiating of carbs, fat, protein, was the protein.
It was more satiating than carbs and fat or fat alone and of fat and protein, it was the protein that satiated most.

it was a very well done documentary covering research carried in several countries from US to Finland.






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if you just ate low fat protien and nothing eles all day that would be bad, otherwise, there is nothing wrong with a high protien diet as long as it is accompanied by a proper amount of fat



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Hi Suzana,

perhaps you misunderstand or oversimplify just what protein is .... or maybe our minds run on different tracks ... protein are classified as 22 (or so) chemicals called amino acids.  That # usually does not include taurine because it acts unlike the rest.  Many meat proteins are composed of 46 groupings of 3 amino acids.

protein usage in the body depends on many things: a supply of amino acids, a capability to build protein from basics - amino acids and peptides (protein fragments); even the ability to break-down protein that is eaten into very small segments.

your wish for specific numbers is not real science.  MoDon was coached a few months back by a poster named Judi.  There was little doubt she was expert in biochemistry.  She said that excess protein was not considered neutral and eliminated as such, but that excess did damage.  She did however refrain from giving any number.

having such a number could easily be a false target

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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I tend to simplify things for communication purposes and I guess many times I simplify so much that it is misleading. Also, I tend to participate in the forum in the evenings with my husband sitting beside me watching Spanish TV. I make comments in Spanish to what he is listening to and I am reading and writing in English. Sorry.

My previous post was:

1) Replying to the request that initiated this thread: “Can anyone direct me to a safe appetite suppressant” and did so following one of the issues that has been brought up also in the thread – Protein being an appetite suppressor.

2) Tina in another thread mentions something in the lines of: because too much protein is not good, I take bread instead in the morning.

In all honesty, I am fed up with the comment that protein is bad for you without proper back up (Tina, I am not having a go at you but at the big shots who start the nonsense). I started my previous post in anger. Asking for the research that proves that protein is bad for you, and why is protein bad for you if so?

An example: Resting posted on post 42: “MoDon was coached a few months back by a poster named Judi.  There was little doubt she was expert in biochemistry.  She said that excess protein was not considered neutral and eliminated as such, but that excess did damage.” My question: What is damaged by excess protein? Will it be my brain, kidney, liver, heart, stomach, muscles, breath, pocket… ? C’on don’t through the stone and hide the hand.

As to Resting’s quote on post 8, “Excess protein just does not willingly leave the body unused, but it can putrefy and cause all kinds of havok in the GI tract.  How much is enough and WHEN is it enough ??????????” I have not seen any research that backs it up. According to Dr. D I have a gastric mechanism which can deal with the recommended amounts of protein efficiently.

I read in the November Issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, “Low-carbohydrate-diet Score and the Risk of Coronary Heart Decease in Women.”  The article is quite frustrating as they have to constantly refer to previous articles/research to direct their conclusions.

Having carried out worldwide research studies and created presentations for board of directors for mayor world multinationals I am well aware of how not only the creation of the research can be influenced for required results or out of ignorance but also how results can be manipulated.

In any case, research conclusions: “Diets lower in carbohydrate and higher in protein and fat were not associated with an increased risk of coronary heart decease in this cohort of women.” They also comment on how the research could not address other possible adverse consequences of a low carbohydrate diet in terms of a decline in renal function, but they mention that on a subgroup of the nurses’ health study dietary protein was not associated with a decline in a healthy renal function.

Also, they conclude from the study that: “the increase of total fat that is common among women who follow low-carbohydrate diets would not be expected to increase the risk of coronary heart decease.”  They have to refer to previous studies to say that: “saturated and trans fats have been associated with an increased risk of coronary heart decease and polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats with decreased risk. Total dietary fat, however, has not been associated with a risk of coronary heart decease.”

It is important to realize that when they mention saturated and trans fat, I have no clue as I have not followed up on their references, the proportion of trans vs. saturated fat used in the sample or, the source of the saturated fat: pork, beef… (I do not know if it makes a difference) and, of course, our question, what blood types were represented in the sample? And, what role did the carbs consumed played in these resuls? Actually the article mentions that they found that: “the direct relationship between glycemic load and coronary heart decease was much stronger than the association between carbohydrate and coronary heart decease.”

A comment that can give a lead to MoDon’s – Resting/protein – fat: “In our previous analyses, we found that a moderately high protein intake was significantly associated with a slightly reduced risk of coronary heart decease. In this study, however, only vegetable protein was associated with a significantly reduced risk” So in terms of coronary heart decease risk and based on this study, the type of protein matters.

Having said all this, it is obvious that practically anything in too large amounts or exclusively is not the best for us.

Since we are on the BTD forum… Dr. D gives a guideline as to the amount of protein we are meant to have. Since protein is a satiating ingredient, it is not easy, if one fills up on veggies, fruit, and protein to eat significantly above recommendations. He also recommends grass fed, low fat cuts of meat and poultry

I was interpreting that Tina was considering the guidelines Dr. D proposes as too much protein. I am saying that I have not been able to grab any research that proves so. Nor have I been able to find research that provides information solely on protein. I have not searched much in this area may be my next project.

In terms of seasonality, I find that I basically carry the same life year round. My environment does not allow me to make drastic changes. So I find that because I have to live an intense winter (including Christmas) and deal with lower temperatures I need to eat more and I do eat more fat but my muscles still require the same protein as the summer. So wouldn’t I be harming my muscles if I reduced my protein in winter?

I hope I been not even more misleading  


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shoulderblade
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Quoted from Susana
I am still looking for reseach proving that too much protein is bad and of course, if it is, why?Also, how much is too much?







This seems to be one of the great mysteries of modern nutrition. I have never seen any research or heard the opinion of any author on what is considered 'high protein' let alone how much is too much.

I suspect the reason behind this is cultural of some sort as protein is rather undervalued in the modern diet. It may also be more expensive ($). Generally the modern , vacant calorie, diet seems to me mostly fat and carbs with protein tagging along as a leftover.

Atkins may have something to say about this as his diet is severely low carb leaving you with protein and fat.  Even he is attacked on the high fats side but no one mentions the proteins.

Mysterious.






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Hi Suzana,

you have been true-to-form and are not at all misleading.  However, citing your references as a good reflection of biochemistry is problematic.  For instance, when the word 'protein' is used what is being referred to?  All foods are a blend of protein, fat, carbohydrates, water, minerals, etc  [Spirulina and chlorella  even though vegetables, have about twice the amount of protein as meat.  Eggs have the most-utilized protein of all common food.  Now there is the supplement mix of amino acids which totally bypasses regular protein digestion and is 100% utilized by the body (one is BioBuilde).]

Sufficiency of protein means what?  Because of proteins' large chemical structure, 'protein' is a fairly loose word representing thousands of types (and literally trillions of units) in a whole class of chemicals.  [Maybe you talk one Gr. 5 student named Cloe ... as if she means all.  Instead, there are millions of Gr. 5 students]  Proteins do numerous things within a body, for instance they are the backbone of all enzymes.  But heat above 105F will destroy all enzymes.  So all cooked meat has their enzymes destroyed.  We eat raw veggies, fruits and fermented foods because we need enzymes to survive.

John

I am not any kind of 'professional' in biochemistry, but I've read enough research papers to realize that there is always a language problem with specifics .... as a field of study expands, what was represented as being just one thing expands incredibly.  For example, you perceive fat only as saturated and unsaturated .... even the 'simple' world of fat has hundreds of specific types and play large roles in health.


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Quoted from Susana

A comment that can give a lead to MoDon’s – Resting/protein – fat: “In our previous analyses, we found that a moderately high protein intake was significantly associated with a slightly reduced risk of coronary heart decease. In this study, however, only vegetable protein was associated with a significantly reduced risk” So in terms of coronary heart decease risk and based on this study, the type of protein matters.


Well, I was the first one to use “protein” incorrectly. It could be (actually most probable) it is the difference in fats in vegetable vs. animal protein that affects the results or perhaps, it was the type of vegetable or animal protein that was given to the sample.

You guys are so true. Very little research is done to separate protein from fats and of course, the variety of protein, fats or for that matter, carbs. This is why I get so furious that “experts” say too much protein can damage your health. What are they talking about? Finding truth is hard enough to have to deal with all the wrong clues.

Resting, I guess I was using references to show one can argue one way or the other. Some say protein is bad some say it is good.  I would say most research deal with animal vs. vegetable at most and because they do not separate the fat issue, or specify the source, conclusions vary. Also the carbs added to the mixture can influence results significantly.

So, for the time being I try to go with BTD. Female intuition  

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Quoted from Tina
How much protein is okay?

Have you tried eating what Dr. D recommends for a type O non-secretor both in terms of serving size and frequency? Did you try using the maximum serving size, particularly for breakfast? I think that eating the recommended amount of protein and keeping carbs relatively low at breakfast will help reduce your cravings.

Are you Rh + or -? Note that Rh- should eat more meat and fish meals per week per LR4YT.

I know you are concerned about the expense of the protein, but what is the cost of supplements to get you around eating properly for your blood/secretor type? Or worse what is the cost of health problems? You need to accept that who you are genetically, a type O non-secretor, requires you to eat more animal flesh sourced protein than any other type to maximize your health.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Dr. D'Adamo mentioned artery damage from animal protein in A's.  
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Regarding protein consumption on the BTD for Os; ER4YT  (Spanish version) mentions we can eat protein as often as we wish but warns us of portion sizes, as our ancestors did not delight themselves with 450gm (16oz) steaks!! Meat was too scarce and precious. Dr. D does have a little go at the common meat supply (packed with antibiotics, hormones...). He advises to consume good quality meat.

In addition, he recommends Os to keep equilibrium of meat proteins, fruit, and vegetables to avoid excessive acid in stomach, which could cause ulcers and irritation.

Dr. D., also in the Spanish version of ER4YT, mentions that As, because of low stomach acid levels, meat is converted to fat. In LR4YT (original) he mentions that the low levels of hydrochloric acid in the stomach and high intestinal disaccharide levels make it difficult for A’s to digest and metabolize animal protein and fat.

One of the reasons why I like BTD is because Dr. D does go into some of the specifics. He does not judge others just says he recommends we have or not have so & so because he has observed or concluded from primary or secondary research that it is good or bad for us.

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Tina
Wednesday, December 20, 2006, 2:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Very good, guys.  Wonderful insights and info that I needed.  I do like to follow the BTD very much, as it is accurate for me.  After all is said and done, I do feel it seems to be the portion SIZES that are most important to follow.  Not eating too much protein AT ONCE is probably when it becomes a problem.  

Is eating 4 or 5 smalls meals throughout the day a good way to eat?

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Yes!  it is very good for your body and easy on your digestive tract and spleen



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As a type O I find that I do fine with 3 meals a day.


FIFHI; ISTP;
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I eat 5-6 small meals a day. Meat for breakfast w/veg, salad and nuts for the next meal, meat w/veg at lunch, salad and seeds next, then a fish meal for dinner w/veg and fruit later in the evening. This works the best for me and I am at the weight I want to be. I lost a great deal of weight with this plan in the last 6 months. My problem comes if I let myself get too hungry and then I overeat protein and it messes me up for the rest of the day. For me, lots of water inbetween eating is a must.
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Alia Vo
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I do well with eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, and 2 snacks within a single day.  Most of the food I eat daily consists of alot of fresh vegetables and salads.  I drink one cup of green tea daily and drink lots of water apart from my meals.

I believe eating 5-6 smaller meals is recommened in LR under the Lifestyle Strageties for blood type A's.  

Alia


Alia A. Vo
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I do best with 4 meals. Early breakfast, early lunch, afternoon snack and dinner.

Last time I did very well for a long strech of time I did:

Breakfsat: fruit, essene bread/ghee/marmalade and green tea.
Lunch: 5-6 oz fish and salad or eggs and salad
Snack: fruit only or with nuts
Dinner: 5-6 oz red meat and vegetables.

1 liter of sparkling mineral water and 1 liter of regular mineral water.

Other than the ghee, marmalade, some types of fish, the eggs, and some vegetables the rest was all beneficial. I had no avoids.

I went slighly over LR4YT weekly portions in 2 slices of essene, olive oil, and slighly on the fish.

I lost like 6-8pounds in 15 days and I felt sensational. I was on ideal BMI before starting so I did not need to lose much weight (therefore losing is harder).


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so the question is why did you stop???



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Quoted from lkpetrolino
so the question is why did you stop???


Could be any of the following:
A) vice/addiction/habit - aka pleasure atained from wheat, coffee, dairy, sugar
B) I feel inferior on a restrained diet
C) Concerned that with this type of eating i am going to spoil what isn't
D) Too much work for the return
E) Constancy is not one of my virtues
F) I have no idea why
G) All of the above
H) None of the above.




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Of course all of the usual excuses, except for D) that one stuck out

Too much work for the return..........

TOO MUCH WORK FOR THE RETURN

too much work for your health, your well being, your spirit.

too much work for your enjoyment of life, for you ability to truely exist and get a bit closer to your potential

too much work for the return

gee Suzanne, you must of been cooking some pretty extrodinary meals



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Quoted from koahiatamadl


Anything really - leftover veg from the night before?

It is very much a case of getting your head round the idea that grain is not needed for breakfast  or any other meal...and that breakfast need not include foods which you grew up to consider as breakfast...imho.

Once you have achieved that mental switch the question is no longer one of substitutes but one of more or less appealing combinations of food, which makes life a lot less complicated...  


I am working on overcoming this one right now.
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Quoted from lkpetrolino
gee Suzanne, you must of been cooking some pretty extrodinary meals


I was on holiday and all meals were prepared for me

You are actually quite right. Thanks for the wake up call

Actually, in all honesty i belive it is A). VICE, PLEASURE which boils down to ADDICTION (consuming agaist one's will). Well, after all Dr. D does mention us O's have a tendency for pleasure seeking substances. He must have included a peep through my window when he arrived at that conclusion .




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Okay, here's what I typically have in a day.  I know that ACV is an avoid, but I love it and it is the raw kind.  I really find it helpful in keeping me well and regular.  My other iffy thing is I do eat raw honey, which I like and feel is good, but I probably overdo it at times, as sugars of any kind tend to make me overdo, but really not too much though...

A.m. first thing,  big glass of warm water, like 16 oz with Bragg's ACV 1 tsp and 1 tsp raw honey.

Bfast= 1 egg with yolk and one or two more whites added to it, scrambled or sauteed in olive oil, just a little, bowl of frozen fruit like blueberries, just half cup or less, handful of walnuts OR 1 slice brown rice sourdough (WHICH I HAVE NOT HAD IN TWO DAYS NOW, GUYS!!!!)  Just had the walnuts instead

After workout, a banana and water

Lunch- canned tuna or sardines and salad with some  pumpkin seeds on top of salad (dressing is acv with little raw honey and little olive oil with spices) celery or carrot sticks with it.

Afternoon snack:  handful of walnuts and dried fruit like figs or prunes, maybe pear or berries

Dinner:  some type of meat or poultry or beans or soup, salad, and side veggie like cooked spinach, broccoli or something like that.  No grains or starchy veggies at lunch or dinner, only at breakfast, if even then!

Nighttime:  herbal tea with raw honey, like 1 tsp.  Dandelion or red raspberry so far.

I ordered some bison and ostrich today and may do that for breakfast some days instead of eggs, but I LOVE eggs though.  Would meat be okay at night?  Anyway, what do you think?  I am exercising every day too very well, but I want to lose about 5 to 10 pounds to be at my best size I think.  What would help this?  Any probs with the diet?  Too much fat with the nuts or seeds, or too much honey?
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try some vegetable glycerine instead of the honey.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Where can I get vegetable glycerine, and what is it made of?

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Quoted Text
Heidi:
Glycerine is properly called "glycerol." It's found all over the place in
plant & animal fats in the form of glycerides. Now: an alcohol does not
contain the lectin present in the substance from which it was processed.
Glycerine is plain old CH2OHCHOHCH2OH, nothing more, nothing less. This is
also not the kind of 'alcohol' found in beer, wine & spirits ~~ that's
"ethanol". So whether your glycerine comes from palm oil, coconut oil, or
whatever: as long as it is labelled as 100% pure glycerine and OK for
ingestion, it is safe, safe, safe for everybody!

No matter what its source, it's going to be CH2OHCHOHCH2OH plain and simple.
No room for a lectin in there
It is a BLESSING for nonsecretors, especially we near-sweetener less Os. Taste
s just like sugar, works like a charm in baked goods (even adds a bit of
leavening), and actually helps normalize our metabolisms. See the link to the
Harvest Moon page, above, for the 16-oz bottles.


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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funkymuse
Friday, December 22, 2006, 12:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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What are Seacure Capsules?
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Lola
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sounds like seaweed ......iodine for thyroid function?


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Maggie45
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Honey is an avoid for 0 non secretors. So you're having two avoids more than once a day. I started this program to get my asthma, allergies, arthritis, depression and anxiety under control, not to lose weight, although I sure needed to. It just wasn't a priority. It was when I became fully compliant (well, ok, 90-95%) that weight just melted off of me. It was totally amazing to me. And I might add, to everyone with whom I come in contact on a frequent basis. They find it hard to believe that I'm not starving myself. Except they see how much I eat. I do not deprive myself. I try to stick with super beneficials, beneficials, and neutrals "allowed frequently"(although more of the first two) and that's when I feel and look my best. Each time I choose a neutral "allowed infrequently" or an avoid, I know that there will be adverse consequences. I will still have an occasional Starbucks espresso, with about a tablespoon or two of half and half and a sprinkle of cinnamon because I love the flavor of the espresso, and I also know that my lungs and sinuses will be adversely affected, as will my adrenals. I'm glad I only get near a Starbucks a couple of times a month, so I'm not tempted more often. I guess when I'm ready to be totally compliant, I will be.
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Tina
Friday, December 22, 2006, 4:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks Maggie.  I know you are right!  I have GOT to get off the honey, if not completely off, then cut down to like 1 tbsp in the a.m.  I have just read that the raw kind is so different than the heated and so good for a person.  I read a thread on it one time that said it would be good for non-secretors if it was raw, but I don't know where I saw that.  Anyway, I am definitely going to get some veg. glycerine.

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Victoria
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Tina,
Keep in mind that unless Dr. D posted it, everything else you read on this Forum is posted by people who are doing their best to make educated choices, nothing more.  If Dr. D. said that honey is an avoid for your blood type, please don't assume that raw honey is ok because one of our posters believes it to be true.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Tina
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Good point, Victoria.  I am drastically cutting back on the raw honey.  I plan to get some veg. glycerine asap.  Thank you for all your wonderful input.  

I read somewhere that too many sweets suppress the immune system, even fruits.  I seem to have been getting more colds lately, and I am thinking this is contributing, the over abundance of honey...

Blessings,
Tina
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Victoria
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I also feel that sweets are not helpful for the immune system.  I'd stick with beneficial fruits in the quantities that Dr. D. recommends in LR4YT.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Don
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Rh-, MN
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Quoted from funkymuse
What are Seacure Capsules?

You can read about Seacure HERE

The short answer is it is good for intestinal healing.



FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons

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Peppermint Twist
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Quoted from Tina
Also, got started working out again every day except Sundays for going on 4 weeks now.  I am loving it and just feel so much stronger and better.  It is sooooooooooo true that O's need that exercise.  I think especially nonnies!


Yup.

The fish thing is so true, too, especially SALMON.

Forgot to say before that I have had astounding results with fresh grapefruit.  If I am smack dab in the middle of a carb craving, and I eat a half a grapefruit (you don't even need to eat the whole one, but you might as well go for it...very hydrating!), the craving is GONE.  I still say salmon is the single best thing to pull me out of carb cravings, but grapefruit works at lightening speed for immediate cessation.  Salmon also works very quickly, and the results (balancing my brain chemistry) are more long-lasting, but it doesn't necessarily happen IMMEDIATELY as with grapefruit.  I still need the salmon to get me on solid ground and keep me there if I've been unsteady for a while and off track, but the grapefruit is great for instantly stopping me from overeating.  Amazing.  The right food in the right situation for the right person is quite powerful.


"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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Alia Vo
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Quoted from Susana

B) I feel inferior on a restrained diet


Hi Susana,

I hope what I share may assist you: Perhaps if you try to rethink this way of eating in a manner that is not restrained/rigid/limiting---your problem will be alleviated.  I believe the BTD allows us a large framework or parameters to make individual choices on a daily basis.  

One does not need to be 100% perfect or compliant if that is not one's intent.  To successfully work for the long run, one has to make this lifestyle manageable for them in an approachable sense; every day may be different.

Alia


Alia A. Vo
A Positive Secretor
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BTD Lifestyle Since 1999
John 17
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Drea
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Quoted from Tina
Can anyone direct me to a safe appetitie suppressant?  I just would like to try something because no matter how hard I try, it seems I am still eating too much, healthily I must say, but still just too much and it is so hard to scale back for me.  I can do it, but I have to think about it constantly.


I just reread this first posting and I could have written it about myself! I'm still having a problem with portion control and feeling satiated, even when eating mainly beneficials, so I'm thinking if there were some form of appetite suppressant out there for A secretors, I'd like to know about it. Tyrosine and Glutamine were mentioned on another thread. Would they work for me?


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.

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Lola
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As should focus on calming down and lowering cortisol levels.......which might trigger binging, and other uncontrolled eating patterns.

alternate nostril breathing, is nice......plus the nerve health protocols
http://www.dadamo.com/protocols/23.html


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Drea
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Thanks Lola, but I already do yoga and alternate nostril breathing daily.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Don
Wednesday, January 17, 2007, 4:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from outdoordrea
I just reread this first posting and I could have written it about myself! I'm still having a problem with portion control and feeling satiated, even when eating mainly beneficials, so I'm thinking if there were some form of appetite suppressant out there for A secretors, I'd like to know about it. Tyrosine and Glutamine were mentioned on another thread. Would they work for me?

I answered you question about glutamine and tyrosine in another thread: O Nonnie Circles Under Eyes

Are you craving sweets or do you just not feel satiated? Do you start your day with a big more protein oriented breakfast?


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Drea
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Thanks MoDon, I'll go searching the other thread. The answers to your questions are yes, yes, and yes.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Drea
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Quoted from ironwood55

In the old message board it was discussed several times that glutamine caused an increase in cortisol for type A and therefore may not be wise. Maybe it is OK in the smaller 200-500mg twice daily amounts for type A, versus the 500mg when needed for type Os.

I wasn't trying to say that type As couldn't use tyrosine, for example for stress. Just that it may not work the same way or to the same extent as a type O for appetite suppression, since type Os apparently have a more problematic dopamine system and Dr. D had said that dopamine is very important to the mental stability of type Os. Therefore, I was questioning if tyrosine may not help as much for appetite suppression in a type A as it might in a type O.

In the Diabetes book on page 104 it recommends type A with a sweet craving problem using milk thistle for a few weeks and maybe a cup of licorice tea at 10 am and 2 pm.



I don't feel like I'm under acute stress, just that I crave foods that maybe are not that good for me - or are more than the recommended servings of good foods. Sometimes I crave sweets, but usually I can get my hands on some dried fruit or some 100% fruit spread. I usually just eat more than the recommended amount of servings of everything except fruits and vegetables because I'm not feeling satiated. I eat a lot of vegetables, but they are mostly non-starchy veggies like kale, broccoli, celery, carrots, onions, ginger, garlic... I almost always start my day with a high protein b'fst, and rarely do I eat grains before dinner.

I'm just looking for a way to curb my appetite.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Susana
Wednesday, January 17, 2007, 10:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alia_Vo


Hi Susana,

I hope what I share may assist you: Perhaps if you try to rethink this way of eating in a manner that is not restrained/rigid/limiting---your problem will be alleviated.  I believe the BTD allows us a large framework or parameters to make individual choices on a daily basis.  

One does not need to be 100% perfect or compliant if that is not one's intent.  To successfully work for the long run, one has to make this lifestyle manageable for them in an approachable sense; every day may be different.

Alia


Alia thank you   Sorry, I was not aware of your reply till now

You are quite right but unfortunately it seems that in terms of food I operate under my addictive brain  All good advice is not applicable I get all hipped up with it initially till I want my dose  .

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Susana
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Quoted from outdoordrea

I'm just looking for a way to curb my appetite.


Drea, have you tried eating really slowly? Apreciating your food, the way it looks, smells, chewing you food 30 times before swallowing, etc

When I aim at reducing my intake it is the only thing that works. But it only works with compliant foods. avoids are a differnt game


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Drea
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Susana, what a timed suggestion! I have completely lost track of enjoying each bite. Lately, I'm rushing through my meals to get back to work (school). I will start to appreciate my meals and see if that helps.



It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Ronagon
Wednesday, January 17, 2007, 11:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Tina,

I'm finding the sarsparilla root and dandelion root to be mad effective appetite suppresants, and I'm an O-nonnie just like you...

They're listed as herbs for fatigue-fighting and metabolic enhancement, but I swear they have cut down my appetite by at least half, and I'm noticing that my stomach is going down quite a bit.
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Drea
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That's exactly what I'm looking for, something for A's that will cut my appetite.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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Lola
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that s a great personal discovery Ronagon!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Don
Thursday, January 18, 2007, 2:48am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from outdoordrea
That's exactly what I'm looking for, something for A's that will cut my appetite.

Have you tried snacking on seaweed?


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Thanks, Lola.  

*big smile*
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Quoted from outdoordrea
That's exactly what I'm looking for, something for A's that will cut my appetite.



Drea it honestly sounds to me that you have a yeast or bacterial overgrowth issue, I feel like I've mentioned this to a lot of people but your symptoms sound like yeast



If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?
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Sometimes you don't know how great life is until you lose what you didn't know you had
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Quoted from ironwood55

Have you tried snacking on seaweed?


I love nori; sometimes I'll eat 5 sheets in one sitting, although it does tend to irritate the corners of my mouth (temporarily).

I've decided that I am one of those people who is looking for the magic secret and really, the will has to come from me. I just need to reprogram my eating habits.


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  A Safe Appetite Suppressant?

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