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The Masai Diet  This thread currently has 2,806 views. Print Print Thread
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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I wish you luck with that.  Buffalo might not even do it, realisitically.  It might HAVE to be zebu milk.  Start looking around for some zebu cows.  I bet you can get a few somewhere.  And certainly you could have them artificially inseminated.  Looks like a new business for an ambitious entrepreneur.

Just make sure that if you did this, that you are a decendent of the milk-drinking tribes, or it might not work for you....


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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+


the robust health of the Masai could as well come from their up-down-up native-dancing (similar to rebounding).  



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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
I wish you luck with that.  Buffalo might not even do it, realisitically.  It might HAVE to be zebu milk.  Start looking around for some zebu cows.  I bet you can get a few somewhere.  And certainly you could have them artificially inseminated.  Looks like a new business for an ambitious entrepreneur.

Just make sure that if you did this, that you are a decendent of the milk-drinking tribes, or it might not work for you....


I sincerely doubt there are any zebu cows to be milked in the US.

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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Here's a pair, just waiting for you!

http://agads.net/page-6230.html

Wow!  I can even buy one right here in San Antonio!

http://agads.net/page-7619.html


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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
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Dairy quiz

1. In which country do people consume the most water buffalo milk?

(a) China (b) India (c) Argentina (d) Zimbabwe

2. What is the most popular specialized dairy breed in the world?

(a) Brown Swiss (b) Holstein (c) Jersey (d) Zebu

3. Which country produces the most cow milk in the world?

(a) India (b) United States (c) Australia (d) Netherlands

4. Which country consumes the most cow milk per capita in the world?

(a) Germany (b) Australia (c) Finland (d) United States

More next issue. (Answers at right)

Source: The Progressive Dairyman. September 2005

1. (b) Of all the milk produced in the world, 10 percent comes from water buffalo. India produces and consumes most of the water buffalo milk

2. (b) The Holstein cow originated from completely black and solid white animals kept by migrant European tribes who settled about 2,000 years ago in what is now the Netherlands. For many years, people selected animals that made the best use of the abundant grass, eventually developing an efficient, high-producing black-and-white dairy breed. The first Holstein cow arrived in the United States in 1852. Now they are on every continent and in almost every country. Jersey cows are the second-most popular specialized dairy breed in the world. India has the highest number of milk cows _ about 80 million; most of them are unspecialized breeds. In contrast, the United States has about 9 million milk cows.

3. (b) The United States produced 76.37 million metric tons of milk in 2000. That is about 20 percent of the milk produced in major dairy countries of the world.

4. (c) People from Finland consume more than four 8-ounce glasses of milk a day. People in the United States consume nearly three 8-ounce glasses of milk a day. The world's average milk consumption is about one 8-ounce glass of milk per day.


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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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This is a VERY interesting study with regards to this thread.  The interesting part starts on page 7.  It just supports the fact that zebu are not great in the milk producing dept, either in quantity or in length of milking time.

http://www.smallholderdairy.or.....enya%206%2041-66.pdf


the average age (44 months) at the time of the first calving (therefore first milk production) for zebu cattle is the oldest of all included in the study (as compared to 33 months for the youngest - dairy cows, of course).  That means that the farmer who keeps a zebu heifer for milk production has a 4-year investment in that heifer before it ever provides them with milk.


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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:34pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
Here's a pair, just waiting for you!

http://agads.net/page-6230.html

Wow!  I can even buy one right here in San Antonio!

http://agads.net/page-7619.html


Thanks.  I just made an  offer on the pair in Wisconsin.










































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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
This is a VERY interesting study with regards to this thread.  The interesting part starts on page 7.  It just supports the fact that zebu are not great in the milk producing dept, either in quantity or in length of milking time.

http://www.smallholderdairy.or.....enya%206%2041-66.pdf


the average age (44 months) at the time of the first calving (therefore first milk production) for zebu cattle is the oldest of all included in the study (as compared to 33 months for the youngest - dairy cows, of course).  That means that the farmer who keeps a zebu heifer for milk production has a 4-year investment in that heifer before it ever provides them with milk.




The animals aren't all the same age, now are they?!  The Masai people generally have LOTS of cattle, not just one..... so I don't really get your point.....
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resting
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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Hi AfricanType0,

had to chuckle a bit because I am Canadian .... and many of us DO indeed presume that we do know more about the US than most Americans ..... of course, we all hide when a Yank points out all kinds of local info that we never knew.

I had this classmate who now teaches political science at Harvard.  His specialty is the Russian army .,... and I know he learned to speak Russian years before his first visit.  So, what's a kid from Northern Ontario, Canada know about Russia.  Ask Brezhnev or Yeltsin?

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO


So if somebody who studied America Studies at university of Tanzania (and never set foot in the USA) told you they knew more about the USA than you do - you'd believe them, right?





Actually, they very well might know more than me.  I only have my own experience to build on, they have the experiences of their teachers and their books, which might encompass far more than my limited experience.  For instance, if they studied life in Texas, overall, they might be able to tell me FAR more about life in Texas than what I have experienced myself.  They might know more facts and have read more studies.  Just because they hadn't experienced it for themselves doesn't mean that I would immediately dismiss them outright.  There are lots of different types of knowledge.  

For example, AfricanTypeO, did you know that the zebu is the original type of cow herded by the Masai and that the zebu, until recently was not the same species (species here, not breed - while breeds of the same species have different characterisitcs, they are united by common genetic markers.  Species, however, can be world apart from each other) as the cow that produces the milk that we drink here?

While I have never set foot in Africa, I knew and had studied this is quite detail.  Do I know more than you about this.  Yes, on certain levels I do.  Do have more experience than you in this?  Yes.  On certain levels I do.  HOWEVER, you know more than I in some ways because you have been there and I haven't.  We each bring something to the table, and it takes all of our knowledge and much more to see the big picture.




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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi AfricanType0,

had to chuckle a bit because I am Canadian .... and many of us DO indeed presume that we do know more about the US than most Americans ..... of course, we all hide when a Yank points out all kinds of local info that we never knew.


I honestly do not believe that you can truly know a place or a people unless you have lived in that place or with those people.   In England, you get writers who specialize in writing about the Royal Family and who would call themselves specialists when it comes to the Royals.  However, they can never truly know the Royal family because they are not a part of it.....
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro


Actually, they very well might know more than me.  I only have my own experience to build on, they have the experiences of their teachers and their books, which might encompass far more than my limited experience.  For instance, if they studied life in Texas, overall, they might be able to tell me FAR more about life in Texas than what I have experienced myself.  They might know more facts and have read more studies.  Just because they hadn't experienced it for themselves doesn't mean that I would immediately dismiss them outright.  There are lots of different types of knowledge.  

For example, AfricanTypeO, did you know that the zebu is the original type of cow herded by the Masai and that the zebu, until recently was not the same species (species here, not breed - while breeds of the same species have different characterisitcs, they are united by common genetic markers.  Species, however, can be world apart from each other) as the cow that produces the milk that we drink here?

While I have never set foot in Africa, I knew and had studied this is quite detail.  Do I know more than you about this.  Yes, on certain levels I do.  Do have more experience than you in this?  Yes.  On certain levels I do.  HOWEVER, you know more than I in some ways because you have been there and I haven't.  We each bring something to the table, and it takes all of our knowledge and much more to see the big picture.






To us (Africans) it is a COW.  While I was in Africa the animals that you Westerners call zebus were what we called cows.   And to be honest I think most of you guys would laugh your asses off if some Masai who had studied American Studies  (but never been to America) pitched up iin the US, unable to even speak English properly -  and claimed to be an expert on life in America.  

To me this is part of the arrogance of Western people... the same mentality of the people who went to Africa and India as Colonialists and as missionaries "we know you people and what's best for you better than you know yourselves......"

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:49pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro


 HOWEVER, you know more than I in some ways because you have been there and I haven't.  





No, not because I've been to Africa: I know more than you because I was born there, raised there and most importantly - because I'm an African.
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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But because you are African, does that mean that you know more than me about cattle?  I mean, that's not automatically something that you would know, just because you are African, is it?

That's all that I am saying.  I know CATTLE, I also know about cattle in Africa, only because this is what I studied.  Mostly I know about cattle. And milk production.   And as it applies to the BTD, my thought is that all this has less to do with the fact that the milk-drinking tribes in Africa are consuming the milk raw than with the fact that the cattle that are being milked are more closely related to buffalo than to dairy cows.

Also, just because I was born and raised in America and because I have actually visited and seen, let's say, the people who live in NYC and ridden the subway a few times, doesn't make me an expert on life in NYC. I've visited there regularly, but I can't, by any stretch of the imagination, hold myself out as a real New Yorker.

Is your knowledge of how milk is consumed by the Masai, how much they consume, how the milk is produced, how much is consumed when and all of that due to the fact that you have lived with the Masai and have lived as they live, or have you visited them on occassion and the rest is based on what you have researched and read?  If it is the latter, then what makes you more knowledgeable about this subject than me?  If you have lived with them, lived as they lived, drank the milk each of the 10 days, drank the blood, etc, then you really are an expert and can downplay what I know.  However if you have just visited the milk-drinking tribes, then your knowledge might NOT be as strong as mine.  Being African no more makes you an expert on this, than being an American makes me an expert on life as a native New Yorker.


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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:24pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
But because you are African, does make you know more than me about cattle, does it?  I mean, that's not automatically something that you would know, just because you are African, is it?

That's all that I am saying.  I know CATTLE, I also know about cattle in Africa, only because this is what I studied.  Mostly I know about cattle. And milk production.   And as it applies to the BTD, my thought is that all this has less to do with the fact that the milk-drinking tribes in Africa are consuming the milk raw than with the fact that the cattle that are being milked are more closely related to buffalo than to dairy cows.



I do not disagree with you at all about our cows being closer to buffalo than to American dairy cows!  However, I do disagree with your claim that Masai people dont' actually drink that much milk and don't drink it year-round.  So far you've not provided any material to back up your claims.
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
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Well, unfortunately, those handouts, that test material and those lecture notes are long gone.  Unless things have changed in the past 20 years, and how could they have, unless it was because of westernization, then this is what I remember from my studies.  And, again, as I stated at the beginning of this, I could be wrong.  All I know is that I spent 2 years studying these cattle and these types of agricultures, and that is what I remember.


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jayney-O
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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fascinating thread! I really appreciate reading it. African typeO thanks for giving us a priceless native perspective!
Did you really buy those zebu?

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:50pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jayney-O
fascinating thread! I really appreciate reading it. African typeO thanks for giving us a priceless native perspective!
Did you really buy those zebu?


Hi!  No I was joking about buying the zebu.  I live in an apartment in New York City with no backyard.  Imagine if I moved a couple of zebu in with me, hehe!



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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Slightly offtopic but a lot of Africans actually drink camel milk.  I wonder if that's an Avoid or a Neutral!!
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 8:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hehe, just found this:


http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000275/index.html

The next thing: camel milk
FAO sees bright prospects for camel milk
18 April 2006, Rome - In Tunisia, people will travel hundreds of kilometres to get hold of some. Herdswomen from Ethiopia and Somalia think nothing of riding a train for 12 hours to sell it in Djibouti, where prices are high. In N’Djamena, Chad, milk bars are mushrooming all over town.

Half way round the globe people consider it a powerful tonic against many diseases. The Gulf Arabs believe it is an aphrodisiac.

From the Western Sahara to Mongolia demand is booming for camel milk. But there just isn’t enough to go round. State-of-the art camel rearing is rudimentary, and much of the 5.4 million tonnes of milk produced every year by the world population of some 20 million camels is guzzled by young camels themselves.

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) thus sees bright prospects for camel dairy products, which could not only provide more food to people in arid and semi-arid areas, but also give nomadic herders a rich source of income.

FAO is hoping financing will come forward from donors and investors to develop the sector not only at local level but help camel milk move into lucrative markets in the Middle East and the West.

“The potential is massive,” says FAO’s Dairy and Meat expert Anthony Bennett. “Milk is money”.

Nutrition

To devotees, camel milk is pure nectar. While slightly saltier than cows’ milk, it is very good for you. After all, nature designed it to help baby camels grow up in some of the world’s roughest environments – deserts and steppes. That helps explain why it is three times as rich in Vitamin C as cow’s milk.

In Russia, Kazakhstan and India doctors often prescribe it to convalescing patients while in Africa it may be recommended for people living with AIDS.

Somalis are gluttons for the stuff and firmly believe in the milk’s medicinal value. Aside from Vitamin C, it is known to be rich in iron, unsaturated fatty acids and B vitamins.

Camel Dairy Milk Ltd of Nanyuki, Kenya is planning, in partnership with the Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI), to carry out research into the role claimed for camel milk in reducing diabetes and coronary heart disease.

Such features account for the milk’s appeal not only to young camels and their nomad owners but to an estimated 200 million potential customers in the Arab world – and millions more in Africa, Europe and the Americas.

Getting over the humps

Tapping the market for camel milk, however, involves resolving a series of humps in production, manufacturing and marketing. One problem lies in the milk itself, which has so far not proved to be compatible with the UHT (Ultra High Temperature) treatment needed to make it long-lasting. But the main challenge stems from the fact that the producers involved are, overwhelmingly, nomads.

Imagine a tomato cannery whose suppliers regularly all disappear overnight – taking their tomatoes with them. That’s the kind of problem you need to solve if you want to stay in the camel milk business.

(Nomads of course do not wander about the desert for pleasure. They move in search of pasture according to the seasons–and can survive for up to a month in the desert on nothing but ... camel milk.)

Another problem is that nomad camel herders are often reticent to sell their spare milk, which tradition reserves for honoured guests and the poor. It has been noted, however, that such reticence can be dispelled by the offer of a good price.

One-leg stand

To milk a camel in Sudan, approach the animal from the right. Stand on your right leg. Bend your left leg and place a gourd or other recipient on it. A camel udder has four teats. Seize the nearest two and squeeze. The others are for the calf to feed from. Repeat twice a day.

Having the fine balance of a Yoga master isn’t enough, however. Camels can be pretty stubborn, and if your animal dislikes you she won’t hear of being milked. Unlike cows, which store all their milk in their udders, camels keep theirs further up their bodies.

Also essential is the presence of the mother’s calf. She-camels will feed only their own calves, responding to their specific smell. When a calf dies, crafty herders trick mothers at milking time by presenting them with a dummy covered in camel calfskin.

The bottom line here is that camel milk production is generally a low-tech business, which in turn explains why a meagre five litres a day is considered a decent yield.

“No one’s suggesting intensive camel dairy farming,” says Bennett, “but just with improved feed, husbandry and veterinary care daily yields could rise to 20 litres.” Since fresh camel milk fetches roughly a dollar a litre on African markets that would mean serious money for nomads herders who now have few other sources of revenue. A world market worth 10 billion dollars would be entirely within the realm of possibility.

Sons of the clouds

That camel constraints can be overcome is eloquently demonstrated by a British-born engineering graduate, Nancy Abeiderahmanne, who has been operating a successful camel dairy in Mauritania for more than 15 years.

Ms Abeiderahmanne, whose Tiviski (Mauritanian for “springtime”) company also processes cow and goat milk, currently has some 800 camel herders supplying her on daily basis. She collects the fresh milk from up to 80 kilometres from her base, Nouakchott, and hauls it back to her dairy for pasteurization in a refrigerated truck.

The herders, while still nomads (we are sons of the clouds and where the clouds go we must follow), have learned it makes business sense to leave their nursing camels behind when they move up north. This ensures a welcome measure of continuity in Tiviski’s supplies.

The right stuff

Another major challenge for Ms Abeiderahmanne was that although camel milk keeps longer than cow’s, it still has a limited shelf life. Even worse, production is highest just at the time demand is lowest – in the winter months.

The obvious solution was to turn surplus milk into longer-lived cheese. But there were problems in getting it to harden.

In 1992, Ms Abeiderahmanne, with FAO’s help, found the answer. FAO, which had developed the technology to make camel cheese, arranged for a French expert, J.P. Ramet, to go to Nouakchott and show her how to use a special enzyme to give her products the right consistency.

The result was a soft cheese with a white crust which she called “Caravane”. It was quickly dubbed Camelbert.

In 1993, Ms Abeiderrahmane deservedly received the coveted Rolex business enterprise award for her breakthrough. Tougher, however, turned out to be the question of getting permission to export Camelbert.

Khoormog

An alternative way of storing camel milk in places lacking electricity, let alone refrigerators, was found centuries ago in the steppes of Kazakhstan and Mongolia, where herders keep two-humped Bactrian camels.

Nomads there process the fresh produce into fermented milk, Shubat, a local delicacy which is known in nearby Mongolia as Khoormog. In Kazakhstan’s old capital of Almaty, a modern plant produces Kourt, a cheese so hard that most people prefer to grate it. The facility also manufactures camel milk sweets.

Some experts would like to see Kazakhstan’s simple, traditional techniques exported. But the moot question remains: will Beduin go for Khoormog?

Sticky fingers

An easier sell would appear to be the low-fat, camel milk chocolate, which a Vienna-based chocolatier, Johann Georg Hochleitner intends to launch this autumn. With funding from the Abu Dhabi royal family, his company plans to make the chocolate in Austria from powdered camel milk produced at Al Ain in the United Arab Emirates, then ship 50 tons back to the Gulf each month.

“It sounds crazy but it’s a huge project. There’s a potential market of 200 million in the Arab world,” says Hochleitner.

And if you get sticky fingers from Al Nassma – the chocolate’s brand name – you can always wash your hands with camel milk soap produced by the Oasis Camel Dairy of Sonora, California, where camels were introduced as pack animals in the 19th Century.

As the Ahaggar nomads of Algeria say, “Water is the soul. Milk is life”. And money too of course.
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apositive
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Ee Dan
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO
Imagine if I moved a couple of zebu in with me, hehe!

Oh, do it!  Especially if you are in a third floor walk-up.  I can see you and the zebu trekking up and down several flights of stairs!



INTJ
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 9:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from apositive

Oh, do it!  Especially if you are in a third floor walk-up.  I can see you and the zebu trekking up and down several flights of stairs!



One of my neighbors keeps a huge pig in her apartment and takes it out on a leash and then to the dog park.  So having zebu is only a little weirder.  

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Lola
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 10:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
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having such a vast variety of superbeneficials, beneficials, and neutrals!!!

I truly don t waste much time wondering if camel, or raw zebu milk agrees with me!!!

I salute your inquisitive minds! lol


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Whimsical
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HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
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AfricanTypeO, are you igbogirl/Red Meat Eater who used to be on the boards?  I recall that she also lived in NYC.


MIFHI E-185
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 11:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lola
having such a vast variety of superbeneficials, beneficials, and neutrals!!!

I truly don t waste much time wondering if camel, or raw zebu milk agrees with me!!!

I salute your inquisitive minds! lol


I wouldn't mind sitting down with a nice creamy camel milk yogurt right now
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