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The Masai Diet  This thread currently has 3,215 views. Print Print Thread
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Debra+
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 2:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you EquiPro...that was a very informative good read.

Debra


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung"

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NewHampshireGirl
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 2:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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Thank you, EquiPro!!!!    I learned so much from your posting.  I very much like to know details and was absolutely fascinated by what I read here.  The Masai people always look so healthy.  I'm glad AfricanTypeO brought up this subject.  Thanks!
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 4:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
I dunno.  I have a minor in international development in Animal Science, and I gotta say here that I'm going to have to quibble on the amounts of raw milk consumed AND the type of raw milk consumed.

First, I am writing this off the cuff, because I have not read the link.  While I studied the Masai as well as other African food traditions in college, I graduate in 1984, so some things could have changed.

You all know my opinion, as a former dairy milker, on consuming raw dairy.  In summary, my opinion is that you might as well lick a cow's butt as drink raw milk - one is about as clean as the other.  Not going over that stuff again.

Now, the thing is this:

First, when I was getting my An Sci degree, and especially for the International Development portion, we studied cattle A LOT.  At that time, the two major types of true cattle were classified as such:

Family: Bovidae (hence bovine) > Subfamily: Bovinae > Genus: Bos >

Species: taurus  -

the "European" cattle, which are all ones that we use here in the US for milk

AND

Species: Indicus -

the "African" and "Asian" cattle, most notibly the Zebu, which is nearly the only type of cow you find on the african continent

There are HUGE differences between these two species, which we studied in depth. At that time, one of the big "lessons" that we were taught was a fiasco that USAID had been involved with in trying to get traditional African tribes, including the Masai, to try using bos taurus cattle, such as the big black and white, super-milk-producing Holsteins that you see on the commercials for their milk instead of the tiny little zebu cattle.  The zebu were ane are used by these communities as a source of food, fuel, heat, and in desperate times, liquid.  

This folly organized and implemented by USAID at the cost of BILLIONS of dollars was a dismal failure.  The Bos taurus all stopped producing their buckets full of milk, ate too much, the milk that they DID produce seemed to make people ill, they didn't produce the right kind of manure that the communities use for fuel and on and on and on.  All of the cows that were put in place by USAID in this venture got either got sick and died or were completely rejected by the people who tried to use them.  The millions of dollars of infastructure that went along with this fiasco were abandoned or dismantled for other uses.  The people we far worse off when it was over than they started.  It was a giant waste of life, time and dollars.

What the people who implemented all of this had failed to realize was that the zebu cattle and the people who lived with them had a very symbiotic relationship, and bos tarus did not fit into this relationship in any way.  The species were so different that they could not be interchanged.

Now I notice that they have done away with the species "indicus" and all "true cattle, bison, buffalos, etc" are all lumped under "taurus" BUT, "taurus" had always ONLY indicated European cattle that don't have humps.  This EXCLUDES buffalo and bison.

A little link of gobblety-gook where someone is obviously challenging the lumping of "indicus" and "tarus" together:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....02&dopt=Abstract

SO

Let's look a little bit deeper here.

While all milk and milk products are basically avoids for Type O, this is based on the milk coming from a EUROPEAN - based cow aka bos taurus.  HOWEVER, cheese - FRESH CHEESE IN PARTICULAR - that comes from BUFFALO is neutral for type O.  BUFFALO, up until they did away with the species "indicus" in classifying genus "bos", were in the same SPECIES as african cattle - the zebu - which is the breed used by the Masai.

SO

technically, according to OLD species classification, the Masai consume milk from an animal that comes from the same SPECIES as buffalo and bison.

I think that is the real difference in this issue.  Once again, you cannot compare apples to oranges.  In the BTD, there IS  difference between the milk from a cow and the milk from a buffalo.

Secondly, as I said before, we studied a LOT about the African nations and their food consumption, and while, yes, when given the opportunity, they DO consume milk, you have to realize that zebu cattle neither produce the same kind nor the same amounts of milk that Holsteins and Jersey cattle do (the most common European milkers here in the US - Jersey cows are the ones that look like the cow on the Borden products).  Additionally,  they don't produce milk for nearly as LONG as European cattle do.  This was the big reason that USAID started the whole, "we'll get them using bos tarus INSTEAD of bos indicus and then they can REALLY get some bang for their buck with the whole milking thing" idea.

ZEBU CATTLE DON'T PRODUCT THAT MUCH MILK AND MOST OF IT HAS TO BE USED FOR THE CALF.

The Masai and the other tribes that utilize their cattle in this fashion, in reality, get far more of their consistent cattle-based calories from blood consumption.  Unlike milk, that is only around after a cow gives birth AND must be shared by the calf, blood is available year round.  This is a staple of their diet that is derived from their domesticated animals.  Remember that this is used as suppliment to their traditional diet of slaughtered game.  You are right in that, traditionally, very little is consumed in the way of fruits and veggies - only when it is available, and almost NOTHING is consumed in the way of grains, at least traditionally.

I hope that this helps to clear this up.

To recap:

1)  As someone who milked 475 cows per day for one summer, I REALLY know all about raw dairy, and there is NOTHING that you could do to persuade me to consume it.  BLECH.

2)  You cannot compare the consumption of milk by the Masai to the milk that we get here in the US.  Up until they recently lumped "true" cattle into one species, the cows that the Masai have - the Zebu - were classified with buffalo and bison.  Fresh buffalo cheese is one of the few neutral dairy products for Os.  I would assume that both buffalo milk and zebu milk are neutral.

3) the Masai do NOT consume large quantities of milk.  The zebu cows are poor milk producers and do not nurse their calves as long as traditional european cows.  The milking season for the Masai would be short and not nearly as productive as you would imagine.  The milk must be used to grow a calf, as the calf's value would far outweigh the value of the milk they might use.  The Masai's main supplimentation, on a regular-year-'round basis from their cattle is that of blood.

OK.  Now, would you like to hear about my senior thesis on introducing guinea pigs as a supplimentary food source for tribes in Africa, based on the traditional consumption of guinea pigs by the mountain people of the Andes?


Very interesting.  However, I have to disagree with some of what you say.  Studying the people of Africa is not the same as living there.  I was born and raised in Tanzania and have personal knowledge of the Masai people and their diet.  They DO consume a lot of raw milk.   I think it is a bit naughty of you to say so categorically that the Masai do and do not do certain things when all you have done is study them from afar...presumably without ever even meeting one.  That would be like you trying to tell me  you knew more than me about Tanzania just because you'd studied Tanzania in college - when I infact am from there.

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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 5:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I will grant you that, and I think that I was clear that what I was writing about was what I was taught.  Since my degree is from  Cornell University, and the professor that I took these classes with had spent much of his time in Africa and was, in fact, very involved with USAID and other oganizations, I took what I was taught as pretty accurate.  Again, I believe that I said at the beginning that things might have changed in the past 20 years.

Regardless of that issue, however, the fact remains that zebu cattle, up until recently, were a seperate species from the cattle that are milked in the US.  Since the testing for the BTD ratings of food was on milk produced in the US, that milk would be from the formerly classified Bos tarus, not Bos Indicus as zebu cattle, along with buffalo, yaks, waterbuffalo, brahman and the like.  Since fresh buffalo cheese is neutral, a better explaination of the Masai being healthy while consuming milk as contrary to the BTD guidelines, would be that zebu cattle and their milk would be classified with buffalo, not with european or american dairy milk.

Finally, I would still be interested in knowing exactly how much of the zebu milk is actually consumed.  Zebu do NOT produce heavy milk loads and do not have long nursing periods for their young.  This is common in most rumenants, as only under americanized situations, is there the availability of the kinds and quantities of food necessary for a lactating mother to produce large quantities of milk without putting herself as risk.  As with most other large mammals, zebu cattle are not perpetually lactating, and, in fact, have large periods of time during the year when they are not pregnant or lactating (usually during the time of the year when food is the most available) so that they can build up stores for the pregnancy and lactation.  

It is somewhat unique to the industrialized and commericalized animal production that animals are manipulated to provide the targeted product year round.  Hens, if not under commercial production, have several extended periods during the year when they do not lay eggs.  Commercial egg-laying operations have all but elminated this natural process through controlled exposure to light and forced moltings.

My point is, where are the Masai getting all of this extra milk?  Zebu cattle are not known for their copious milk product, nor do they milk all year.  Herds would be cyclical, with all females coming into estrus simultaneously, giving birth at the same time, and weaning at roughly the same time.  This is a fact of the natural cycle of the bovine.  How would they be consuming this much milk under these circumstances?

Unless, in the past 20 years, their herding and milking production has changed and their consumption levels have changed with it.  If this is the case, most likely they will not continue to have the kind of health that they have in the past.  If nothing else, it is clear that once traditional food consumptions change, health changes with it.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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semmens
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Commercial egg-laying operations have all but elminated this natural process through controlled exposure to light and forced moltings.


Some of us do this at home too! The light part anyway...mine get a nice bright light at 3 a.m. these days, but I don't add on at night.

Very interesting, Equipro!

Laura
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Victoria
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:14pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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Thank you EquiPro.  This is very informative.  



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Let me not pass you by in quest
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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And if you were to force molt your hens, by withholding food and water from them for several days before molting season (some commercial productions do this for a week or two at a time) you could also avoid that pesky drop in production during molting season (the word, "pesky" should be read with EXTREME sarcasm).

I'm wondering if a lot of AfricanTypeO's thoughts are trying to put the connection between Masai health, and milk consumption as one of consuming the dairy raw.  If so, I would hope that someone here (who is far better with the dadamo search engine) could put up the link to the raw dairy discussions that we have had on this forum.  This might give some more insight and thoughts on the who issue of raw dairy.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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Lola
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Rachel,
I believe that thread is lost, unless it was a sticky one.....
couldn t find it.


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Victoria
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sun Beh Nim
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If the Masai people are indeed drinking a large quantity of milk now, it sounds as if they have found a way to incorporate the American/European type milking practices onto their own cattle, OR have found a strain of high-yield milkers that will survive in their environment.

It makes sense to me that the native cattle were in balance with the native people.  If this fact has changed drastically, it may take a couple of generations before the health decline shows itself.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
I will grant you that, and I think that I was clear that what I was writing about was what I was taught.  Since my degree is from  Cornell University, and the professor that I took these classes with had spent much of his time in Africa and was, in fact, very involved with USAID and other oganizations, I took what I was taught as pretty accurate.  Again, I believe that I said at the beginning that things might have changed in the past 20 years.

Regardless of that issue, however, the fact remains that zebu cattle, up until recently, were a seperate species from the cattle that are milked in the US.  Since the testing for the BTD ratings of food was on milk produced in the US, that milk would be from the formerly classified Bos tarus, not Bos Indicus as zebu cattle, along with buffalo, yaks, waterbuffalo, brahman and the like.  Since fresh buffalo cheese is neutral, a better explaination of the Masai being healthy while consuming milk as contrary to the BTD guidelines, would be that zebu cattle and their milk would be classified with buffalo, not with european or american dairy milk.

Finally, I would still be interested in knowing exactly how much of the zebu milk is actually consumed.  Zebu do NOT produce heavy milk loads and do not have long nursing periods for their young.  This is common in most rumenants, as only under americanized situations, is there the availability of the kinds and quantities of food necessary for a lactating mother to produce large quantities of milk without putting herself as risk.  As with most other large mammals, zebu cattle are not perpetually lactating, and, in fact, have large periods of time during the year when they are not pregnant or lactating (usually during the time of the year when food is the most available) so that they can build up stores for the pregnancy and lactation.  

It is somewhat unique to the industrialized and commericalized animal production that animals are manipulated to provide the targeted product year round.  Hens, if not under commercial production, have several extended periods during the year when they do not lay eggs.  Commercial egg-laying operations have all but elminated this natural process through controlled exposure to light and forced moltings.

My point is, where are the Masai getting all of this extra milk?  Zebu cattle are not known for their copious milk product, nor do they milk all year.  Herds would be cyclical, with all females coming into estrus simultaneously, giving birth at the same time, and weaning at roughly the same time.  This is a fact of the natural cycle of the bovine.  How would they be consuming this much milk under these circumstances?

Unless, in the past 20 years, their herding and milking production has changed and their consumption levels have changed with it.  If this is the case, most likely they will not continue to have the kind of health that they have in the past.  If nothing else, it is clear that once traditional food consumptions change, health changes with it.


The Masai people I know seem to have access to milk year-round - I'll ask around and find out how and why.

I was not aware that Cornell was noted for it's African history department
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Actually, before USAID decided to ship Bos taurus over to africa (along with the milking parlors, etc.), they spent a lot of time trying to up the milk production is zebu.  It was a no go.  At the time that I was studying this, giving cows bovine growth hormone to up the quantities of milk production and the lactation duration was the big thing.  This was the whole issue with zebu cows:  they just don't make much milk and they don't lactate for extended periods and nothing seemed to change that part.  

So instead of getting the zebu to become produce milk more like Bos taurus -which they had been unsuccessful in doing, they just shipped the American cows and methods over there in one giant sweep.  As I said, the devestation was huge.  I wish that I could remember the specifics, but I seem to remember that nearly all the cattle died, and the people who tried to use them had their whole lives thrown into caos.  One of the huge contributions that cattle make to these people is in their manure.  It is burned for fuel, used for construction and used in many other essential ways.  The manure that the Holsteins made was completely useless for these things.  People couldn't cook their food, couldn't repair their homes, etc.  It was an huge, unmitigated disaster AND one that you never heard about because it was so costly and the results were so poor.

This project alone (the replacement of bos indicus with Bos tarus to suppliment the animal protein supply) was what got me thinking about the use of guinea pigs.  Another disasterous project put out by USAID was to have the native people grow rabbits to suppliment them with meat and with fur for sale and trade.  It failed miserably because they people implementing it did not realize that the types of rabbits that one would eat and skin could not live in the conditions in those areas.  The heat and the humidity caused rabbit death, disease and disaster.   That's when I started to look at guinea pigs.

Anyway, to get back to the original issue, there was never any luck in getting the milk production of the zebu up past a certain point, which was far short of Bos tarus production, and believe me when I tell you that they tried everything.  Lots of tests and papers on this particular project on my part.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Quoted from AfricanTypeO


The Masai people I know seem to have access to milk year-round - I'll ask around and find out how and why.

I was not aware that Cornell was noted for it's African history department


Don't know about African History, but is considered to have the top Animal Science programs in the entire world.  At least at that time. It was, then, one of the few universities where you could major in International Development in Animal Science, which was my final major and which basically covered exactly what we are talking about.  While we also studied South American and touched a bit on Eurasia, the focus of our studies was Africa and how animal science could help, rather than hinder, development and health there.

Getting back to your original issue, however, I still maintain that, regardless of the quantity of the Masai dairy intake (which I still find hard to believe is that high as compared to the traditional consumption of game), the reason that they are not deleteriously affected by their milk consumption is because the zebu is not the same species as the dairy cow, but rather is the same species as the buffalo (regardless fo the recent changes in classification), and as such,  the zebu milk that they consume is not an avoid.


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:52pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Things are a-changing in Africa all the time.  Until very recently all of our meat was grass-fed, all of our eggs and poultry were free-range.  All of our fruit and vegetables were organic.  When we consumed dairy, that was grass-fed and raw too for the most part.  No wonder we were so healthy!  But now that our countries in Africa are becoming more "civilized" we now have GMO foods, refined grains, feedlot meats, chicken that is chock full of hormones and antibiotics.   Soon we will all be struck with "Western" health issues.

It is interesting to note that many of the health problems that afflict African-Americans - including hypertension and diabetes actually do not affect many African nationals.  But now that we AFricans are starting to stray from our traditional diets; I am sure that soon we will have just as many health problems as African-Americans.  And they call this modernization!
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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This is interesting....

http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth3.htm


A reduction of animal fat and an increase of vegetable fat in the diet is said to lower the blood cholesterol. This is correct, but the effect of such dietary changes is very small. Ramsay and Jackson (37) reviewed 16 trials using diet as intervention. They concluded that the so-called step-I diet, which is similar to the dietary advices that are given nationwise by the health authorities in many countries, lower the serum cholesterol by 0 to 4% only. There are more effective diets, but they are unpalatable to most People.

Studies of African tribes have shown that intakes of enormous amounts of animal fat not necessarily raises blood cholesterol; on the contrary it may be very low. Samburu people, for instance, eat about a pound of meat and drink almost two gallons of raw milk each day during most of the year. Milk from the African Zebu cattle is much fatter than cow's milk, which means that the Samburus consume more than twice the amount of animal fat than the average American, and yet their cholesterol is much lower, about 170 mg/dl (3.

According to the view of the Masai people in Kenya, vegetables and fibers are food for cows. They themselves drink half a gallon of Zebu milk each day and their parties are sheer orgies of meat. On such occasions several pounds of meat per person is not unusual. In spite of that the cholesterol of the Masai tribesmen is among the lowest ever measured in the world, about fifty percent of the value of the average American (39).

Shepherds in Somalia eat almost nothing but milk from their camels. About a gallon and a half a day is normal, which amounts to almost one pound of butter fat, because camel's milk is much fatter than cow's milk. But although more than sixty percent of their energy consumption comes from animal fat, their mean cholesterol is only about 150 mg/dl, far lower than in most Western people (40).

Proponents of the diet-heart idea say that these African tribesmen are accustomed to their diet and that their organisms have inherited a cleverness to metabolize cholesterol. However, a study of Masai people who had lived for a long time in the Nairobi metropolis showed this to be wrong (41). If the low cholesterol of the Masai tribesmen was inherited it should have been even lower in Nairobi, because here their diet with all certainty included less animal fat than the diet of the Masai tribesmen. But the mean cholesterol level in twenty six males in Nairobi was twenty-five percent higher than that of their cattle-breeding colleagues in the countryside.

And there is more evidence. Although it is possible to change blood cholesterol a little in laboratory experiments and clinical trials by dieting, it is impossible to find any relationship between the make up of the diet and the blood cholesterol of individuals who are not participating in a medical experiment. In other words, individuals who live as usual and eat their food without listening to doctors or dieticians show no connection between what they eat and the level of their blood cholesterol.

If the diet-heart idea were correct individuals who eat great amounts of animal fat would have higher cholesterol than those who eat small amounts; and individuals who eat small amounts of vegetable fat should have higher cholesterol than those who eat great amounts. If not, there is no reason to meddle with people's diet.
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Peppermint Twist
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Kyosha Nim
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I don't care who is from where or what culture does what, here is the bottom line:

Cow's milk is for baby cows.

Us humans don't even drink human milk once we are weaned, why on earth do we think it is normal to drink the milk that nature so exquisitely designed for the very young of another species?  WEIRDNESS!

Althoooough...I did enjoy that vanilla Haagan Daaz on Thanksgiving...hey, I didn't say it didn't taste good in certain ice cream formats, or certain cheese formats...just that it truly is a bizarre ingredient for human beings to consume, what with it being specifically designed by nature for baby cows.  Again, us continuing to drink human breast milk past infancy, and to make it into ice creams and cheeses would be a far more natural thing to do, yet I'll bet you all had a reaction of:  eeeeew.  And why did you have that reaction?  Because consuming the milk of any animal, even our own species, is not normal when one is not a baby, let alone not a baby of that particular species!*

* Type B's, I don't know where the above post leaves you, but you tend to go your own way anyway, so you may have a special pass to drink cow's milk if you really must.



"If you are on one of Dr. D's diets and it isn't joyful, you aren't doing it right." - moi

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:56pm
EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:56pm
EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:55pm
EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:54pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:54pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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And I believe the following is probably true:

http://www.femsinspace.com/ancestors.htm

"today's Masai of East Africa who drink 3 to 5 quarts of cow's milk daily, but during the dry season of 4 to 5 months, ingest fresh cow blood, mixed (balanced) with milk."

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:55pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:57pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Edna
I don't care who is from where or what culture does what, here is the bottom line:

Cow's milk is for baby cows.

Us humans don't even drink human milk once we are weaned, why on earth do we think it is normal to drink the milk that nature so exquisitely designed for the very young of another species?  WEIRDNESS!

Althoooough...I did enjoy that vanilla Haagan Daaz on Thanksgiving...hey, I didn't say it didn't taste good in certain ice cream formats, or certain cheese formats...just that it truly is a bizarre ingredient for human beings to consume, what with it being specifically designed by nature for baby cows.  Again, us continuing to drink human breast milk past infancy, and to make it into ice creams and cheeses would be a far more natural thing to do, yet I'll bet you all had a reaction of:  eeeeew.  And why did you have that reaction?  Because consuming the milk of any animal, even our own species, is not normal when one is not a baby, let alone not a baby of that particular species!*

* Type B's, I don't know where the above post leaves you, but you tend to go your own way anyway, so you may have a special pass to drink cow's milk if you really must.


Yours is a popular argument but frankly I think that the milk-drinking African tribes have something to teach us all.  They are so much healthier than most Westerners

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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:58pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewten74.htm


Among the Masai, who never allow milk to be boiled, it is considered a great offense to drink milk and eat meat at the same time; so for ten days the Masai lives exclusively on milk and for ten days exclusively on meat. So great is the aversion to bringing the two foods together that they take a strong emetic before changing from one food to the other.
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 6:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
BTW, AfricanType O, welcome.  I have been remiss from the boards lately because of home issues, so you probably don't "know" me well.  I am also a blogger who needs to blog again soon (see Rachel).

You will find that I am one of the ones who is always screaming about just what you have posted.  I have said for years that the whole consumption of cholesterol was not linked to cholesterol levels of the blood and, further, that the "your cholesterol must be under 200" was a lie conconted by the pharmaceutical companies to get 1/2 of the population on their statin-lowering drugs.

Further, I have maintained that the best way for a type O to feel good, lose weight and be BTD compliant is to regularly eat fat, which includes cholesterol.  I believe that cholesterol is necessary for good skin, good brain health, and good health overall.

You will never find me eating meat without some fat involved.  I hate dry, lean meat.  I have found, over and over, that more often than not, Types O are simply this way.

There is a lot more about this, and maybe I'll blog on it.  Regardless, you will find many here who are type O, who are fat-eaters, fat-lovers (at least where their food is concerned) ,and who, like me, think that they whole "fat/cholesterol/heart-disease" issue is a bunch of hooey.

IMHO, it is the corn starch, the modified wheat, they corn syrup and the over-consumption of grain and grain-derivatives that is the cause of heart issues, not fat.  At least not for Type O.


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gatherer!
Sam Dan
Posts: 2,354
Gender: Female
Quoted from AfricanTypeO


Yours is a popular argument but frankly I think that the milk-drinking African tribes have something to teach us all.  They are so much healthier than most Westerners



yes, BUT, we can't get buffalo milk here.  Not readily, anyway.  Once again, I don't think that you can compare the milk of Bos tarus to the milk of Bos indicus where the BTD is concerned.






FRESH START TODAY!!!

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EquiPro  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:10pm
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro
BTW, AfricanType O, welcome.  I have been remiss from the boards lately because of home issues, so you probably don't "know" me well.  I am also a blogger who needs to blog again soon (see Rachel).

You will find that I am one of the ones who is always screaming about just what you have posted.  I have said for years that the whole consumption of cholesterol was not linked to cholesterol levels of the blood and, further, that the "your cholesterol must be under 200" was a lie conconted by the pharmaceutical companies to get 1/2 of the population on their statin-lowering drugs.

Further, I have maintained that the best way for a type O to feel good, lose weight and be BTD compliant is to regularly eat fat, which includes cholesterol.  I believe that cholesterol is necessary for good skin, good brain health, and good health overall.

You will never find me eating meat without some fat involved.  I hate dry, lean meat.  I have found, over and over, that more often than not, Types O are simply this way.

There is a lot more about this, and maybe I'll blog on it.  Regardless, you will find many here who are type O, who are fat-eaters, fat-lovers (at least where their food is concerned) ,and who, like me, think that they whole "fat/cholesterol/heart-disease" issue is a bunch of hooey.

IMHO, it is the corn starch, the modified wheat, they corn syrup and the over-consumption of grain and grain-derivatives that is the cause of heart issues, not fat.  At least not for Type O.




Thanks for the welcome.  I'm totally with you about eating fat.  And I agree that its the corn syrup and so on that is the real problem behind heart issues.   Several years ago I ate a diet that consisted of brown rice, very small amounts of fish and lots of fruit and wholegrain cereal.  I'd been led to believe this was healthy!!  When I was eating like that, my cholesterol was ok but it could have been better.  Since I started eating in a very Paleo way - with lots of grass-fed red meats and lots of green vegetables forming the base of my diet; my total cholesterol is 150, my HDL is up at 91, my bad cholesterols are really low - and I've achieved this by eating the so-called forbidden fats.
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from EquiPro


yes, BUT, we can't get buffalo milk here.  Not readily, anyway.  Once again, I don't think that you can compare the milk of Bos tarus to the milk of Bos indicus where the BTD is concerned.




I've actually been trying to buy buffalo milk here in America and so far I have had no luck.  I may be forced to open my own buffalo farm,
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resting
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
Posts: 1,797
Gender: Male
Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Age: 67
hi folks,

thanks EP for these great insights .... when in university, I had many friends whose mother-tongue was French.  They took a course specifically in the French language, because they presumed the course would be a cinch.  Most failed the course miserably.  So from this, I have learned that there are a vast amounts of information locals only presume they know.  This happens everywhere ... not just in Tanzania.

the robust health of the Masai could as well come from their up-down-up native-dancing (similar to rebounding).  Health is multi-faceted - diet is only one of these facets.  Exercise, lack-of-stress, genetics, exposure to toxins, exposure to natural energies + forces, are only some of the factors contributing to health.

there is much to learn .... for every one of us!

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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This may sound weird, but Type Os are a tiny bit dog-like.  When I used to feed my dog commercial dry dog food that contained grains, she used to get bloated and fat and she would overeat - its like she was addicted to the dry food.  When I put her on  meat diet with small servings of veggies, fruits and eggs, she became lean and mean (well not mean just lean) and her elimination is perfect.  When I eat like her - meat, veggies, fruits - I feel great, look good and have very healthy elimination.  So I'm very much like a dog.
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
hi folks,

thanks EP for these great insights .... when in university, I had many friends whose mother-tongue was French.  They took a course specifically in the French language, because they presumed the course would be a cinch.  Most failed the course miserably.  So from this, I have learned that there are a vast amounts of information locals only presume they know.  This happens everywhere ... not just in Tanzania.


John


So if somebody who studied America Studies at university of Tanzania (and never set foot in the USA) told you they knew more about the USA than you do - you'd believe them, right?



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BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  The Masai Diet

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