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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 9:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Although I am not Masai, I know a lot of them and know a lot about them.   I've discussed the concept of the BTD with Masai friends.  Incidentally most of the ones I know are Type O.  Their traditional diet consists of a lot of raw milk, meat, sometimes animal blood and very little (or no) vegetables, fruit or other foods.   The Masai have been widely documented to be one of the healthiest people on earth, along with the Dinka peoples.  They are super-healthy.  So what gives with the large amounts of raw milk they consume???  I thought this was a no-no for Type Os according to Dr D'Adamo and yet these people absolutely thrive on their diet.

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Thursday, September 13, 2007, 2:09am
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Lola
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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guess they don t have access to all the other modern food production junk out there!!!

like all corn derived high fructose, hydrogenated oils, GE food, ........should I go on?

Native Americans, Inuits were also a healthy folk until processed food invaded their stores.....
many have now lost arms or legs due to diabetes.

here s an old thread dealing with your very question on the Masai:
http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive7/config.pl?read=30147


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:07pm
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semmens
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I know this doesn't conform to stricit BTD thought, but I have read lots on the NT (Nourishing Traditions, a book by Sallon Fallon) list that raw milk is so completely different than pasteurized that many O types have no problems with it.
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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from semmens
I know this doesn't conform to stricit BTD thought, but I have read lots on the NT (Nourishing Traditions, a book by Sallon Fallon) list that raw milk is so completely different than pasteurized that many O types have no problems with it.


I've read this too!

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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lola
guess they don t have access to all the other modern food production junk out there!!!

like all corn derived high fructose, hydrogenated oils, GE food, ........should I go on?

Native Americans, Inuits were also a healthy folk until processed food invaded their stores.....
many have now lost arms or legs due to diabetes.



That still doesn't explain why Masai people THRIVE on a high cow's milk diet...


Plus, not every Westerner even eats high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, GE food and so on....



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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:13pm
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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What percentage of the daily intake is raw milk?  You haven't provided any information as to how "much" they really consume.

There are anomolies in everything.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat
What percentage of the daily intake is raw milk?  You haven't provided any information as to how "much" they really consume.

There are anomolies in everything.


It varies from person to person somewhat but easily 30% or more of the total daily intake.  Just do a Google search if you require further information

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jayney-O
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Nature is very flexible....if consuming lots of vegetables isn't happening, then maybe milk is needed for calcium and other stuff....
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Lola
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Anyone for a nice warm, fresh cup of .......... cow blood?  
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Lola
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:36pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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and another thread, think it s interesting on raw milk.....
here s a quote by Heidi:

Quoted Text
I was about a month old. Hey-presto! I broke out in full-body hives. We lived on a dairy farm at the time, so my mother had a little light-bulb moment and the next experiment was raw milk. Hives went away; happy baby Heidi. Food for thought, eh? I wonder why that pasteurized stuff gave trouble and the raw milk did not. Maybe it was sweetened with corn syrup, as well as containing none of the natural enzymes that aid digestion?


http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/config.pl?read=76190


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I've ordered some raw goat's milk cheese and I'm hoping it works out for me
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Lola
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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there s a type of sausage called 'moronga' or morcilla down here.......
it is basically pork blood.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moronga


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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KimonoKat
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 10:49pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Imho, Type O's should concentrate on beneficial foods, and leave the dairy for once a week (or ideally, less) small treat.



Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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AfricanTypeO
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 11:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat
Imho, Type O's should concentrate on beneficial foods, and leave the dairy for once a week (or ideally, less) small treat.



It is possible that raw milk actually

is a beneficial food for Type O's.  It certainly appears to be for Masai Type O's
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Lola
Wednesday, November 29, 2006, 11:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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the natural sugar in cow milk is the same one as the type B antigen (D Galactosamine).....
that s the reason Bs thrive on dairy while all other types should just refrain from consuming it.....
our bodies get used to other 'not like' antigens, some have more severe reactions, others don t....
it is up to you to consume it, as long as you find it agrees with you.

yogurt is an avoid in most of the health library series........it s up to you! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 12:34am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from lola
the natural sugar in cow milk is the same one as the type B antigen (D Galactosamine).....
that s the reason Bs thrive on dairy while all other types should just refrain from consuming it.....
our bodies get used to other 'not like' antigens, some have more severe reactions, others don t....
it is up to you to consume it, as long as you find it agrees with you.

yogurt is an avoid in most of the health library series........it s up to you! )


Health Library series?  Were those written by Dr D'adamo?

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Lola
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 12:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sa Bon Nim
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yes!!!
http://www.dadamo.com/books.htm

targeted to your needs!


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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resting
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 1:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Hi peoples,

perhaps (I do not know, just speculating) that the process called pasteurization not only destroys microbes but alters (even creates) milk lectins.  We have learned that heat alters the structure of comb-honey to yield a product that actually promotes fungal infections.  Does the heat of the pasteurization process alter glucosamine into a form that makes it a strong lectin?

Knowing the avoid label on honey arises because of the ready supply of heated honey outstrips that of unheated honey, are we not involved here in a very similar issue?  Doesn't the very common pasteurized milk, almost totally outstrip the prevalence of the milk from the Masai diet?  Cow's pasteurized-milk is very common (and lectin-bound), but measuring Masai cow's-milk against this is a bit of a stretch, imho.

As such, wouldn't such milk fall under the 'unknown' category and be treated as such?

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 1:27am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi peoples,

perhaps (I do not know, just speculating) that the process called pasteurization not only destroys microbes but alters (even creates) milk lectins.  We have learned that heat alters the structure of comb-honey to yield a product that actually promotes fungal infections.  Does the heat of the pasteurization process alter glucosamine into a form that makes it a strong lectin?

Knowing the avoid label on honey arises because of the ready supply of heated honey outstrips that of unheated honey, are we not involved here in a very similar issue?  Doesn't the very common pasteurized milk, almost totally outstrip the prevalence of the milk from the Masai diet?  Cow's pasteurized-milk is very common (and lectin-bound), but measuring Masai cow's-milk against this is a bit of a stretch, imho.

As such, wouldn't such milk fall under the 'unknown' category and be treated as such?

John



Totally agree with you!

So, does raw/untreated honey actually NOT promote fungal infections?
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KimonoKat
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 1:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from AfricanTypeO


It is possible that raw milk actually

is a beneficial food for Type O's.  It certainly appears to be for Masai Type O's


I don't believe it; although you are welcome to speculate on that.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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AfricanTypeO
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 2:01am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KimonoKat


I don't believe it; although you are welcome to speculate on that.


Thanks for allowing me to speculate
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 3:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I dunno.  I have a minor in international development in Animal Science, and I gotta say here that I'm going to have to quibble on the amounts of raw milk consumed AND the type of raw milk consumed.

First, I am writing this off the cuff, because I have not read the link.  While I studied the Masai as well as other African food traditions in college, I graduate in 1984, so some things could have changed.

You all know my opinion, as a former dairy milker, on consuming raw dairy.  In summary, my opinion is that you might as well lick a cow's butt as drink raw milk - one is about as clean as the other.  Not going over that stuff again.

Now, the thing is this:

First, when I was getting my An Sci degree, and especially for the International Development portion, we studied cattle A LOT.  At that time, the two major types of true cattle were classified as such:

Family: Bovidae (hence bovine) > Subfamily: Bovinae > Genus: Bos >

Species: taurus  -

the "European" cattle, which are all ones that we use here in the US for milk

AND

Species: Indicus -

the "African" and "Asian" cattle, most notibly the Zebu, which is nearly the only type of cow you find on the african continent

There are HUGE differences between these two species, which we studied in depth. At that time, one of the big "lessons" that we were taught was a fiasco that USAID had been involved with in trying to get traditional African tribes, including the Masai, to try using bos taurus cattle, such as the big black and white, super-milk-producing Holsteins that you see on the commercials for their milk instead of the tiny little zebu cattle.  The zebu were ane are used by these communities as a source of food, fuel, heat, and in desperate times, liquid.  

This folly organized and implemented by USAID at the cost of BILLIONS of dollars was a dismal failure.  The Bos taurus all stopped producing their buckets full of milk, ate too much, the milk that they DID produce seemed to make people ill, they didn't produce the right kind of manure that the communities use for fuel and on and on and on.  All of the cows that were put in place by USAID in this venture got either got sick and died or were completely rejected by the people who tried to use them.  The millions of dollars of infastructure that went along with this fiasco were abandoned or dismantled for other uses.  The people we far worse off when it was over than they started.  It was a giant waste of life, time and dollars.

What the people who implemented all of this had failed to realize was that the zebu cattle and the people who lived with them had a very symbiotic relationship, and bos tarus did not fit into this relationship in any way.  The species were so different that they could not be interchanged.

Now I notice that they have done away with the species "indicus" and all "true cattle, bison, buffalos, etc" are all lumped under "taurus" BUT, "taurus" had always ONLY indicated European cattle that don't have humps.  This EXCLUDES buffalo and bison.

A little link of gobblety-gook where someone is obviously challenging the lumping of "indicus" and "tarus" together:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....02&dopt=Abstract

SO

Let's look a little bit deeper here.

While all milk and milk products are basically avoids for Type O, this is based on the milk coming from a EUROPEAN - based cow aka bos taurus.  HOWEVER, cheese - FRESH CHEESE IN PARTICULAR - that comes from BUFFALO is neutral for type O.  BUFFALO, up until they did away with the species "indicus" in classifying genus "bos", were in the same SPECIES as african cattle - the zebu - which is the breed used by the Masai.

SO

technically, according to OLD species classification, the Masai consume milk from an animal that comes from the same SPECIES as buffalo and bison.

I think that is the real difference in this issue.  Once again, you cannot compare apples to oranges.  In the BTD, there IS  difference between the milk from a cow and the milk from a buffalo.

Secondly, as I said before, we studied a LOT about the African nations and their food consumption, and while, yes, when given the opportunity, they DO consume milk, you have to realize that zebu cattle neither produce the same kind nor the same amounts of milk that Holsteins and Jersey cattle do (the most common European milkers here in the US - Jersey cows are the ones that look like the cow on the Borden products).  Additionally,  they don't produce milk for nearly as LONG as European cattle do.  This was the big reason that USAID started the whole, "we'll get them using bos tarus INSTEAD of bos indicus and then they can REALLY get some bang for their buck with the whole milking thing" idea.

ZEBU CATTLE DON'T PRODUCT THAT MUCH MILK AND MOST OF IT HAS TO BE USED FOR THE CALF.

The Masai and the other tribes that utilize their cattle in this fashion, in reality, get far more of their consistent cattle-based calories from blood consumption.  Unlike milk, that is only around after a cow gives birth AND must be shared by the calf, blood is available year round.  This is a staple of their diet that is derived from their domesticated animals.  Remember that this is used as suppliment to their traditional diet of slaughtered game.  You are right in that, traditionally, very little is consumed in the way of fruits and veggies - only when it is available, and almost NOTHING is consumed in the way of grains, at least traditionally.

I hope that this helps to clear this up.

To recap:

1)  As someone who milked 475 cows per day for one summer, I REALLY know all about raw dairy, and there is NOTHING that you could do to persuade me to consume it.  BLECH.

2)  You cannot compare the consumption of milk by the Masai to the milk that we get here in the US.  Up until they recently lumped "true" cattle into one species, the cows that the Masai have - the Zebu - were classified with buffalo and bison.  Fresh buffalo cheese is one of the few neutral dairy products for Os.  I would assume that both buffalo milk and zebu milk are neutral.

3) the Masai do NOT consume large quantities of milk.  The zebu cows are poor milk producers and do not nurse their calves as long as traditional european cows.  The milking season for the Masai would be short and not nearly as productive as you would imagine.  The milk must be used to grow a calf, as the calf's value would far outweigh the value of the milk they might use.  The Masai's main supplimentation, on a regular-year-'round basis from their cattle is that of blood.

OK.  Now, would you like to hear about my senior thesis on introducing guinea pigs as a supplimentary food source for tribes in Africa, based on the traditional consumption of guinea pigs by the mountain people of the Andes?


FRESH START TODAY!!!

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Alan_Goldenberg  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 3:41am
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Thursday, November 30, 2006, 3:23am
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LuHu
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 3:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from EquiPro


OK.  Now, would you like to hear about my senior thesis on introducing guinea pigs as a supplimentary food source for tribes in Africa, based on the traditional consumption of guinea pigs by the mountain people of the Andes?


Ok EP,

As this was the subject of your thesis I probably should err on the side of caution and guess that this last paragraph isn't meant as a joke. Nevertheless, you have me ROTFL! Please forgive if necessary!



"Some people look out and see a land of giants while others look out and see a land flowing with milk and honey."
(As BTDers, please substitute your most desirable, delightful bennie for the figurative 'milk and honey'!)
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EquiPro
Thursday, November 30, 2006, 4:00am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Sam Dan
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Oh, the thesis is no joke.  It was hard because there is VERY little information on the consumption of guinea pigs.  However, not necessary to actually get into it.  I guess it was to point out how much I feel like my degree is the jimble-jamble of basically useless information.  


FRESH START TODAY!!!
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