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Saurkraut  This thread currently has 2,422 views. Print Print Thread
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Laura P
Friday, November 10, 2006, 9:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am curious as to why saurkraut is an avoid or neutral for everyone.  Many cultures believe it is an incredibly healthy food from the natural fermentation.  I am looking for a specific reason for it's rating

not: Flocculates serum or precipitates serum proteins.
 

I don't need that I can read



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http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archivea/config.pl?read=88859
here s one point of view for fermenting for As in general........
will look further to find an explanation for you........can t promise I ll find it, though.

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=1119
ahhh! and from Dr D himself.......will keep on looking.......


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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lola  -  Friday, November 10, 2006, 11:05pm
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Sam Dan
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Hi Laura,

the initial 'problem' came from the fact that like commercial pickles the pickling acid for sauerkraut was/is vinegar.  Homemade or Eden Foods natural fermented cabbage is a lactic acid form, that is very healthy.  Not sure if this was ever tested for bt compliance.

Am curious to know if naturally-fermented turnip is available anywhere.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Drea
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Unfortunately (according to the TypeBase4) cabbage is an avoid for both A secretors and A nonnies. I wonder if fermenting it does anything to this status? I love sauerkraut, although I haven't had any in years.


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Vicki
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Brine pickles are listed as an avoid for Type A non-secretors even though they don't contain vinegar.  The book, Wild Fermentation, helps you learn how to make your own fermented ANYTHING (practically), including nearly any vegetable.  
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I've just ordered the book, thanks to the link you posted on another thread. I'm so excited for it to come!


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Lola
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Drea,

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=1119
there!
I had already posted it up above.....hope it works


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
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lola  -  Friday, November 10, 2006, 11:47pm
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Vicki
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Lola, could you link again?  The link didn't work!
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Sam Dan
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Hi Vicki,

please re-read a description of pickles brine .... I read it as containing vinegar .... this may be the no-no.  Cabbage lectins are eliminated during natural fermentation ... even making cabbage-rejuvelac.  I do NOT know whether this type a natural fermentation is now OK for blood types with a vinegar problem.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Lola
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working now


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!
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Drea
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Quoted from lola
Drea,

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/convert1/config.pl?read=1119
there!
I had already posted it up above.....hope it works


But why? That is, what about sauerkraut is not recommended? Is it because most sauerkrauts are made with vinegar, or is it the cabbage, or what?

This link doesn't give me any new information  


Let go of resistance; feel appreciation for what is, and eagerness for what is coming.

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lola  -  Friday, November 10, 2006, 11:55pm
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
Hi Vicki,

please re-read a description of pickles brine .... I read it as containing vinegar .... this may be the no-no.  Cabbage lectins are eliminated during natural fermentation ... even making cabbage-rejuvelac.  I do NOT know whether this type a natural fermentation is now OK for blood types with a vinegar problem.

John


Perhaps there is still hope for me and sauerkraut! I wonder what the correlation between fermentation and vinegar is.


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Laura P
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I know, WHY............she constantly calls, I do nothing in my life without knowing the why............



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Laura P
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you can do it lola........sending you some red meat qi we have faith in you.........go, go,go



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Don
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Maybe it is the concern about mold ant the type A immune system, per TYPEbase entry for sauerkraut "This food can be a source of mold contamination".


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Laura P
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Yet this is true about so many things, nuts, miso, tofu, beans, rice is considered by some people to mold within 15 min of cooking



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vinegar is an acid formed from the fermentation of alcohol ... so most modern pickles are made by cooking first ... then putting them in jars with vinegar and added spices .... colouring, salt and sugar too!

Natural fermentation of cabbage produces lactic acid (+) .... a very different acid than vinegar(acetic acid).  that being said though:  I doubt this form was ever tested for bt compliance.  I do not know how different blood groups respond to lactic acid .... even if the lectin issue has changed.

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius


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lola  -  Saturday, November 11, 2006, 12:19am
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Found this HERE:
"POLYFLORA Probiotics

The term "Probiotic" means "in favor of life". It was coined in 1910, by a Russian physician named Metchnikoff, who promoted a theory of longevity which associated prolonged life and improved health with decreased gastrointestinal toxicity. He suggested that aging is a process mediated by chronic exposure to putrefactive intoxication caused by imbalances in intestinal bacteria and that this process could be halted by the routine ingestion of lactic acid bacteria and their "fermented" ("cultured") food products. Almost 90 years have passed since he introduced these radical ideas; however, in many respects his ideas have been proven to be true. Consumption of lactic acid bacteria, or food cultured or fermented with these friendly microorganisms does extend life in animal experiments and does dramatically reduce a wide range of intestinal metabolites, such as indoles, polyamines, cresols, nitrates/nitrites, and carcinogens which we now know are counterproductive to good health.


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Laura P
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Type A's can eat dairy (yogurt and such) which also has lactic acid- thus lactic acid in and of itself is neutral



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So what have we found out so far? Fermenting destroys the cabbage lectin (which makes cabbage no longer an avoid?) and produces lactic acid (which is a neutral)...so I'm thinking that perhaps homemade sauerkraut would become neutral for As.

Is my logic correct here?


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Laura P
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Well this was the logic I went through before I asked the question.  Yet I wanted to see if you all went through the same reasoning, nice to see you did.

Therefore under the new logic that would make it neutral for A, B and AB and avoid for O

This is just theory of course



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Don
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Cabbage doesn't have a lectin listed in TYPEbase.


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Vicki
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The description of brine pickle in the typebase4 says "brine or vinegar".  Both brine pickles and vinegar pickles are listed in typebase.  The author of Wild Fermentation says you can remove mold, if it forms, similar to removing mold from cheese.  
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Vicki
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Previously cabbage juice was neutral for A's but it was switched to an avoid in Live Right For Your Type.  
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Hi MoDon and Laura,

all this may be new to you but this was a topic on the old-board too.  It was much the same kind of fine reading into unheated vs heated honey.  Most of the store-bought honey was of the heated variety ... an avoid.  Heidi said that all lectin testing was done on commercial store-bought food.

So we had a problem with unheated honey and with naturally fermented sauerkraut.  

Instead of treating them as 'unknowns' there was a caution about using these foods only in small amounts ... even if they did not cause noticeable upset.  They are OK for O-sec but O-nonnies need be extra cautious.

hope this doesn't add even more confusion........

John


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Sam Dan
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wow MoDon,

what you said really blew me away.  For a long, long time I assumed that the 'reason' for avoids was in fact a lectin issue if there wasn't a vinegar, sugar issue.  Since there is no descriptive data on cabbage lectin ... does this mean that no lectin exists and we are to avoid it because Dr D says it is avoid?  There is no statement about what it does  ... just that we are to avoid.

I had assumed that even without a lectin characterization, there is still a lectin (not yet characterized) ... am I wrong?

John


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Don
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I assume that the reason cabbage is an avoid has nothing to do with a lectin since a lectin is not specified and it is not mentioned in the reason it is an avoid for type A. Therefore, I assume it must be some other compound in cabbage that is the problem.

Heidi alluded to this too: http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive7/config.pl?read=31380


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lola  -  Saturday, November 11, 2006, 2:11am
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Laura P
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The lectin issue is interesting, but that quote from Heidi is completely irrevelavant.  I have cooked red cabbage as well and enjoyed it quite a bit.  You can cook broccoli and make it smell badly



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Vicki
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Here's what typebase4 says about cabbage juice:

Quoted Text

Cabbage juice is famous for its ulcer-healing capabilities, but should be used only in conjunction with a doctor's prescribed therapy for ulcer treatment.
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Vicki
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Another interesting thread:

http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive5/config.pl?read=7255

See the first paragraph about the perishability of cabbage juice.
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Laura P
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I am thinking that saurkraut is perhaps one of those foods that changes status amazingly due to specific disease



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Lola
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yes Laura...
in the cancer book for example:
cabbage juice is a neutral allowed frequent and should be consumed within a minute of juicing for max effect. (an avoid for nonnies)

cabbage is still an avoid, though....


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ISA-MANUELA
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I've had alltimes stomaccramps with this stuff... very ykes and I don't like it
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Laura P
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Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is not good.  Plus it is neutral for you so theoretically you should do fine with it



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Vicki
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Typebase mentions that you should rinse the kraut before using it!  
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nope, Laura ....perhaps a question of my own individuality .....mostly all kinds of krauts give me
gas ...very and stomachcramps
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Quoted from John_McDonell_O+
...Am curious to know if naturally-fermented turnip is available anywhere...


Its called "Aka Kabu" in the Japanese market - its red because of the Red Shiso {Perilla frutescens} used in the pickling brine. If you look hard, or meet an elderly Japanese, they will have natural ones -There are 'red turnips' but that is not what is used for the pickles...



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Quoted from Vicki
Here's what typebase4 says about cabbage juice:...


The TYPEBAse is too vague on this - Many times what is referred to for the healing properties is "Cultured Cabbage Juice" from real Sauerkraut - due to the Lactic ferment not found in the fresh juice.

The TYPEBase doesn't specify whether it is 'Raw' or 'Cultured' Cabbage Juice.



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http://www.simply-natural.biz\Harsch-Crock-Pot.php has a recipe to make saurkraut in something called a Harsch Fermenting Crock Pot.

Maybe the recipe can be adapted to a homemade container.

This page also has a recipe for green beans which must be prepared in a certain way or they will become poisonous.
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Vicki
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Schluggell,

Under saurkraut, typebase mentions rinsing the kraut before using it.  I suppose due to the risk of mold.  This seems to mesh with the idea that fresh cabbage juice must be used quickly (due to risk of mold).  You'll note that brined and vinegar pickles are listed separately in typebase.  
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Laura P
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I have decided that I think you are right Vicki, I think it is the mold issue and not the actual substance, I have a feeling the same is true for many other avoid food for A's alot of it probabally has to do with the fact that the bacterial ecology in the A gut can easily spin out of control and thus things like saurkraut and other wild fermentation could be dangerous.  Notice in Polyflora A, the make up of bacteria, very specific and interesting mix I would say, especially the focus on bifus which is known to be a colonizing bacteria that can easily over grow (however is the most abundent bac. in a babies gut) and the absence of acidophious



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ty very much Schluggell, Vicki, and Laura,

put together this is a very good analysis since I think of fermented foods as being most helpful when on a winter-regime.  When split along blood-types and mold susceptibility such 'avoid' issues becomes clear.  Avoidance of mold is a large factor for O-nonnies too.

John


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lola  -  Tuesday, November 14, 2006, 3:16pm
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Quoted from Vicki
...You'll note that brined and vinegar pickles are listed separately in typebase.  


However, the TYPEBase has virtually the same results and the Same description for Brined and Vinegared Pickles {WHich Thank You I hadn't noticed the separate entries before - Ohh those pesky little Elves}.
Technically the Brined would not be with Vinegar, as that is rightly 'Pickled'. Brined in the proper sense means salted {Lactic ferment}.



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Vicki
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Sun Beh Nim
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Correct, and brined pickles made without vinegar are a Type A non-secretor avoid.  
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