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Contradictions - whose right???  This thread currently has 6,750 views. Print Print Thread
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mikendomsmum
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
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Quoted from ironwood55
I suggest you buy a different brand of grass fed beef. The beef I buy is very tender.


Yes, you're right.  I was going to try another brand next time.  Which brand do you buy, MoDon?


Karen
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Victoria
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ironwood55
I suggest you buy a different brand of grass fed beef. The beef I buy is very tender.


I agree.  Good grass fed beef is hands down better than any grain fed beef, for tenderness and flavor.  

You might be able to locate your own rancher who is local to you.

My local butcher has started carrying local grass-fed beef which he ages himself, in response to local requests.  Merchants respond to the interest of their customers, because it represents money for them.  So it could be worth it to talk with your butchers.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion

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Victoria  -  Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:24pm
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Victoria
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
Sun Beh Nim
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Quoted from brenda50


ps oh just seen your post victoria, should I move this one?


No need to if you are getting your needs met here on this thread.  

But if you are really curious about how long people have been eating this way and finding out what their long-range results are, it is an option for you to start a new thread about it.    



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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mikendomsmum
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:30pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
Posts: 712
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Quoted from Victoria


I agree.  Good grass fed beef is hands down better than any grain fed beef, for tenderness and flavor.  

You might be able to locate your own rancher who is local to you.

My local butcher has started carrying local grass-fed beef which he ages himself, in response to local requests.  Merchants respond to the interest of their customers, because it represents money for them.  So it could be worth it to talk with your butchers.


There isn't any grass-fed beef in my area.  There is one farm a couple of hours away but they don't always have it and that's a long ride for a gamble!  Plus, I don't want to get stuck with another freezer full of meat that we don't like so I'd prefer to get a recommendation from someone who has enjoyed the beef they have gotten.


Karen
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Don
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:33pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from brenda50
I... but the long term effects cannot be seen until they are difficult to treat such as too high iron levels in a high beef diet?

First, high iron levels are not hard to treat, just donate blood. Even intense exercise lowers iron levels, which is part of the type O BTD recommendations.

Second, not everyone is going to get high iron levels from eating a high iron diet, probably only those that have the genetic mutations for hemochromatosis.

Third, even if you have hemochromatosis it is not recommended that you avoid healthy whole foods that are high in iron. So even if you are a type O with hemochromatosis the type O BTD would still be the correct diet. You should avoid food products that have added iron, like cereals frequently do.





FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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Don
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Quoted from mikendomsmum
Which brand do you buy, MoDon?

I buy from a farm in my state of AL that I found on Eatwild.com.

Burt's Beef


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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mikendomsmum
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-
Ee Dan
Posts: 712
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Quoted from ironwood55

I buy from a farm in my state of AL that I found on Eatwild.com.

Burt's Beef


Thanks Don.  I'll bookmark that and try it after I've finished with this freezerful.


Karen
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Victoria
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Swami Nomad 56%
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I really liked a thread that EquiPro started many months ago.  She had a realization that type O's needed to focus on abundant fresh beneficial vegetables,  *with meat *. . . rather than focusing on being "MEAT EATERS".  Sometimes O's try so hard to get a lot of meat because they believe that is what they are supposed to do, and they neglect the balance that comes from eating lots of produce.  Always remember the fresh greens, broccoli, romaine salads, and put a beautiful serving of meat on the plate with it.  
Grains do not help most O's.
Think vegetables, meat, fruit, seeds and nuts....



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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Don
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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I think it depends on what your problem or mindset is how you should think about the type O diet.

If you have trouble eating enough protein than you should focus your meals around protein to make sure it is adequately included in every meal.

If you have trouble eating enough vegetables, but not protein, then maybe you need to put vegetables in the forefront of your meal planning.

I don't really have trouble with either issue, but I do plan my meals around the protein to make sure I get the protein I need. Then I just make sure I have enough veggies to fill up on.

Another way to look at it is I can go a meal with out veggies and be OK, but I will not feel my best if I go a meal without protein.


FIFHI; ISTP;
Started BTD 3/2002, with 2 O- secretor teenage sons
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mlpaul
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 5:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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OK - maybe I SHOULD listen to my body.  Meat does help quite a bit!  I can do without the vegetables as well, but my body DOES WANT the meat!  Switching to meat in the morning and afternoons has helped me to get through the day without feeling hungry all the time and with my sugar/carbohydrate cravings.  I do pick the low fat, grass-fed, antibiotic/hormone free fresh meats (thank goodness I have a Whole Foods store close by).  I have switched from beef to buffaloe and lamb.  I guess time will tell - along with many trials and errors
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KimonoKat
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 6:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from brenda50
I have been having the same thought as mlpaul, being fairly new myself. What if the short term effects are beneficial, but a lot of it due to just giving up on processed food especially sugar, but the long term effects cannot be seen until they are difficult to treat such as too high iron levels in a high beef diet? Who has been eatring this way for a long time (5 years +) and who has gained full health starting from chronic sickness?


I notice in your siggy line that you are Rh- (which means, you need more protein & less grain servings) and that you have multiple health issues.  Have you considered getting your secretor status tested?  

As a Type O fibromyalgia, I would recommend cutting out grains completely.  In the encyclopedia, Dr. D writes that in the early stages of this disease, just cutting out wheat is all the treatment that is needed.  

Another thought would be to try the recommendations in the FATIGUE book.

Just my two cents here.


Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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brenda50
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 7:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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KimonoKat

I am hedging my bets that I am a nonnie with all my health problems but no I have not had the test done yet. I am going away for a month and will not be able to get really into the diet until I return, but have made a start by cutting wheat, and for the last few days all grains apart from brown rice and mainly eating according to the diet. . I may have to eat rye bread when I am away as catering it is going to be difficult. One thing that I noticed once I stopped most grains was my bowels  seemed happier. When I gave up wheat, I felt rough for a day or two but there has not been a significant improvement but I noticed my joints seem more mobile. But when I come back, I will stay off grains totally to see how I get on.
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KimonoKat
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

38% HUNTER
Kyosha Nim
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Quoted from brenda50
KimonoKat

I am hedging my bets that I am a nonnie with all my health problems but no I have not had the test done yet. I am going away for a month and will not be able to get really into the diet until I return, but have made a start by cutting wheat, and for the last few days all grains apart from brown rice and mainly eating according to the diet. . I may have to eat rye bread when I am away as catering it is going to be difficult. One thing that I noticed once I stopped most grains was my bowels  seemed happier. When I gave up wheat, I felt rough for a day or two but there has not been a significant improvement but I noticed my joints seem more mobile. But when I come back, I will stay off grains totally to see how I get on.


I understand how hard it is to make these changes.  Please note that in the Health Series Books, every one, Rice & Rye for Type O's becomes an infrequent neutral.  This is one of the reasons why I say go grain free.

If you can go grain free for five days, I think you will see a world of difference.




Knowledge is power.  SWAMI gives you the diet that will unlock the key to better health, and it's all based on your unique individuality.
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brenda50
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 7:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks KimonoKat. I will definately try going grain free for 5 days and buying some of the books once I get home. I am looking for a safe home due to my chemical sensitivities, and am considering moving to Germany (I am in the UK) which is where I am going for a month, staying in a Christian community which is into natural living so no chemicals, as I think that I will have a better chance there healthwise. No diet on this earth will succeed unless I get my environmental controls up to the necessary standard for me which means definately no formaldehyde or traffic pollution.
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Whimsical
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

HUNTER Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto
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Quoted from ironwood55

First, high iron levels are not hard to treat, just donate blood. Even intense exercise lowers iron levels, which is part of the type O BTD recommendations.

Second, not everyone is going to get high iron levels from eating a high iron diet, probably only those that have the genetic mutations for hemochromatosis.

Third, even if you have hemochromatosis it is not recommended that you avoid healthy whole foods that are high in iron. So even if you are a type O with hemochromatosis the type O BTD would still be the correct diet. You should avoid food products that have added iron, like cereals frequently do.


Also, women have a built-in iron regulation mechanism AKA the menstrual cycle.  I once read an interesting article about how this may be one important factor in women's lower risk of heart disease because they regularly flush iron from their bodies.  An accumulation of iron is linked to heart disease.  Donating blood regularly is an easy fix!  

My dad, who can't donate blood due to epilepsy, gets "bled" (real old-fashioned, eh?) regularly to prevent skin outbreaks on his hand (can't remember the disorder name off the top of my head) that are related to iron-levels.  He had this issue his WHOLE LIFE and has only found a solution about 10 years ago.  And the solution is so ridiculously simple and easy!  No drugs required.  Aweome biproduct - no heart issues, despite that fact that his father and two brothers do (2 of these 3 died of heart attack).



MIFHI E-185
Naturopathic Doctor in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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brenda50
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 7:52pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks MoDon for the information about excess iron. I only gave that as one example however, but there are others concerning a high animals fat diet. All health warnings are against a diet like this. Who do we believe on this issue? Going against advise like this is a bit scary.

What if you cannot donate blood because they refuse to take it because you used acupuncture once?

Oh OK just saw the solution on the last post

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Drea
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 8:03pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

SWAMI Warrior ~ Taster, NN, ENFJ
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I donate blood regularly (every 8 weeks) even though I also get acupuncture treatments. Most blood donation banks will accept acupuncture if disposable needles were used (at least that is my experience).


It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
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brenda50
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 8:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Don
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 8:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Rh-, MN
Sam Dan
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Your concern about fat or meat in the type O diet is a typical one-size-fits-all (Not) kind of issue.

Type A and AB need to be concerned about eating a low fat diet because a high fat diet is the path to Cadiovascular Disease (CVD) for them.

However, for type O and B the path to CVD is a high starch diet, like eating a lot of grains, which leads to high triglycerides.

One of the main reasons for this is the difference in the amount of Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase (IAP) in the different blood types, with type O having the most and type A having the least.

My blood lipid numbers (HDL 55, total Cholesterol 170, Triglycerides 50) and blood pressure (108/68 ) are great!


FIFHI; ISTP;
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Serena
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 8:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from brenda50
... I only gave that as one example however, but there are others concerning a high animals fat diet. All health warnings are against a diet like this. Who do we believe on this issue? Going against advise like this is a bit scary.
...


While Dr. D recommends red meat, he suggests we get LEAN red meat. Which cuts down on the sat fats. Moreover, free range beef (or better yet bison) will have less sat fat than standard commercial beef. If I remember correctly, the difference is animals kept in pens develop more intramuscular fat- while free range animals just get the usual layer of fat. This means that free range meat will have less fat in the muscle than animals fed in pens. And lets not forget that when doctors comment on diets "high in sat fats" that that includes fat from pigs, and dairy products, and lard, and fat from the processed food. While an O diet may be high in animal protein, it is supposed to be high in LEAN animal protein, and does not allow for many of the other methods of ingesting sat fats that the standard american diet does. So relax, and enjoy the delectable taste of red meat

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brenda50
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 8:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Thanks MoDon. Good figures! I think that I am just having trouble getting my head around the idea of so much meat in the O diet having been a macrobiotic for so long. But I am starting to feel happier. After all, if the current advice is right, how come there are so many heart attacks still? I know at a gut level that grains are not good for me. And I have always tried to fight against my desire for more meat.
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mlpaul
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 9:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Brenda,  this is where my concerns have been.  You wrote . . .
Quoted Text
"I think that I am just having trouble getting my head around the idea of so much meat in the O diet having been a macrobiotic for so long. But I am starting to feel happier. After all, if the current advice is right, how come there are so many heart attacks still? I know at a gut level that grains are not good for me. And I have always tried to fight against my desire for more meat".  
 I have also struggled with going against my desire for meat.  I think it has been embedded in our minds that meat is not good for "us" (the general public).  This thinking will take some time to be reversed.  The more I read on this forum, the more comfortable I feel about eating meat - and other protein-related items.  I do buy the natural meat and I think this helps as well.  I can tell a difference in how I feel when I eat the meat - I feel better!  Hopefully as I continue with this diet, I can change my way of thinking about meat.
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martynmills
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 9:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Hi Brenda,

Go with you  gut feeling, I find the people on this site very honest and open.  The have nothing to gain from you.  People pushing diet fads are there to make money.

I could not believe that this information "ER4YT" has been around for ten years.  It will prove itself and you will see the benifits in avery short time.

I have only been on the diet for 3 weeks and believe me I am eating better and more than I ever have and my weight is dropping.

Martyn
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resting
Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 11:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

probable non-sec
Sam Dan
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Hi Melanie and Brenda,

You two mention a trouble with eating meat ... this 'problem' is much more physical than you may think .... macrobiotics is very, very close to a vegan diet ... if the fish and the infrequent eggs/dairy are left out.  An excess of copper can easily lead one to a false impression of superiority of a vegan diet [our MoDon quoting from the doctor who is the world's authority on copper toxicity - Dr. Wilson].

I have harped on this too much for this board's old-timers.  The structure that our cells use to sequester zinc is: M-Zn-taurine where M is the outer membrane-wall of cells; the little (-) sign means tightly bound to; Zn is the chemical name for zinc; then another (-) sign; and finally, H-SO3-CH2-CH2-NH2 called 'bound'-taurine.  This structure is fluid because when the insides of cells needs zinc a signal transforms AA (arachidonic acid) into PgE2 (a big problem for Barry Sears but he only knows about AA being transformed.  He does not know about the zinc connection, nor that the zinc-taurine bond is 'the' major membrane stabilizer and is anti-inflammatory.) to get some zinc by freeing the taurine and leading the captive zinc through the membrane-wall to the cell's insides.  People with A type blood seem to be very efficient at re-cycling the free-taurine in their kidneys ; O's are much less efficient here and need a continuing source of taurine ... only found in meat, eggs and fish.  The way this structure is arranged - both zinc and taurine have to be present ... it is like a brick and mortar ... but you will never find these together in a supplement.

Oh yeah often a too high zinc level reduces copper and too high copper reduces zinc.

Taurine is also a zwitterion ... sounds like: 'twitter-eye-on' ... and means that it has a positive charge at one end (to bind to Zn++) and a negative charge at the other end.  This gives cells (because all bound-taurine faces outwards) a negative charge on their surface.  These charges keep cells apart and avoid clumping together.  [in our modern era this rare fact helps to buffer some of the effects of electric devices because these all have an electric field.  Very often folks with environmental sensitivities lack sufficient membrane-bound taurine, and do not have a strong buffering/repelling charge, imho.]

There is more to this story too .............

John


“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

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Victoria
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 5:35am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mlpaul
Brenda,  this is where my concerns have been.  You wrote . . .   I have also struggled with going against my desire for meat.  I think it has been embedded in our minds that meat is not good for "us" (the general public).  This thinking will take some time to be reversed.  The more I read on this forum, the more comfortable I feel about eating meat - and other protein-related items.  I do buy the natural meat and I think this helps as well.  I can tell a difference in how I feel when I eat the meat - I feel better!  Hopefully as I continue with this diet, I can change my way of thinking about meat.


For 25 years, I was vegetarian.  About half of that time I was vegan, the other half, I followed macrobiotic eating.  Oh, and for several years toward the end, I added dairy and eggs to my macrobiotic (starchetarian) diet.  In the beginning, I felt wonderful and clean from being meat-free.  After a few years, my health went steadily downhill, and I suffered from a ruptured appendix, followed by decades of irritable bowels, weight gain, and depression.  I went through breast cancer and sky-rocketing cholesterol.
I have now been eating for my blood type honestly for 3 1/2 years.  I say honestly because for the first 5 years I didn't know my secretor status, and I ate a lot of avoids along with the many neutrals and a few beneficials.  It was pretty half hearted, and I didn't benefit much from it.  But since I have been following it 100%, my cholesterol levels have gradually returned to a safe level.  My digestion is free from distress for the first time that I can remember.  My skin is clear.  I have dropped weight without dieting and I am holding at 20 pounds less than I was 8 years ago.  Even my doctor mistakenly thought I was 10 years younger than I really am.

People regularly apologize to me for eating meat around me, and seem surprised when I tell them that I eat lamb nearly every day.  They tell me that meat eaters aren't supposed to look so healthy and clear.  I know they don't understand.  I watch a couple of dear type O friends going steadily downhill by trying to be vegetarians.  They are afraid to change.



Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are.
Let me not pass you by in quest
of some rare and perfect tomorrow.
~Mary Jean Irion
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