Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register


Main Forum Page  ♦   Latest Posts  ♦   Member Center  ♦   Search  ♦   Archives   ♦   Help   ♦   Log In/Out   ♦   Admins
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Soy Alert ?!
Users Browsing Forum
Baidu Spider and 19 Guests

Soy Alert ?!  This thread currently has 2,969 views. Print Print Thread
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
gandalf
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 7:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Just read some interesting articles about soy food that warn of soy and it's negative effects on humans/animals. As an AB I am especially interested since soy is so highly recommended for the AB BTD. I'd like to hear your opinions on the following articles. They seem to be backed up quite well with scientific facts and the Westonaprice Foundation actually is one reputable internet source and I highly appreciate many of their articles and columns!

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html#articles

Revision History (2 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Tuesday, September 18, 2007, 3:12am
Marked for save.
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 7:45pm
Logged
E-mail E-mail
Lola
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,006
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
Quoted Text
Soy can have decidedly medicinal effects in people with an A antigen.

Other than that, it's too big a concept to have one easy or simple answer



http://www.dadamo.com/ask/ask2.pl?20051004.txt
http://www.dadamo.com/ask/ask2.pl?20050318.txt
http://www.dadamo.com/ask/ask2.pl?20050407.txt
http://www.dadamo.com/ask/ask2.pl?20050329.txt

the people at 'Weston' do not take into consideration blood type individuality.




''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

Revision History (1 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 8:52pm
Logged
Private Message Private message YIM YIM Reply: 1 - 10
Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 8:51pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 2,774
Gender: Female
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 69
My experience with soy may be relevant to you as a half-A.

At two separate times in my life, I have eaten what might be called a moderately large amount of soy products (perhaps 4-10 servings per week -- it varied).  The first time, I noticed that I was feeling more sluggish.  I thought perhaps I was somewhat allergic to soy, so I stopped eating it and the sluggishness soon went away.

That experience eventually slipped my mind, however, and since soy products are so convenient, I gradually ate more and more of them, back to my previous level.  Once more I began to feel sluggish, but didn't think of soy as a culprit until an acquaintance mentioned that it affected him that way, saying that it lowered his thyroid levels.  Once more I stopped eating soy, and once more I felt increased energy within a week or so.

I do currently eat soy, but only occasionally.  I favor the cultured or fermented products such as miso and tempeh, since I have heard that they are less likely to affect one's thyroid levels.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

Revision History (3 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 9:13pm
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 8:56pm
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 8:55pm
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 2 - 10
Dr. D
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 9:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
Kwan Jhang Nim
Posts: 4,135
Gender: Male
Location: Connecticut
Age: 58
This is a good teaching opportunity, since this is not just the point of view of Price Pottenger, but also to some degree or another, Atkins, Swank's Diet for MS, Neanderthin, and to a lesser degree the Zone  and Protein Power diets.

So, actually, the title of this thread is pretty good: 'Soy Alert'

Type A's lack intestinal enzymes that break down dietary fats in an efficient manner.

But in most of these plans and  websites everyone is advised to eat more fat.

Yet,


  • Type A has more endothelial (artery wall) dysfunction than the other ABO types.
  • They have 30% higher levels of factor VIII than other normal healthy blood types.
  • They have higher levels of E-selectin on their artery walls than the other blood types.
  • Their cholesterol in even healthy subjects is higher than the other types.
  • Their blood clots more readily under stress than the other blood types.


Now,


  • Factor VIII + elevated cholesterol + E-selectin  = artery inflammation.
  • Artery inflammation + platelet aggegation (clotting) = thrombus formation.
  • Thrombus formation in heart or peripheral arteries =arterial, heart disease.



So it is not surprising that virtually every study looking at ABO types and heart/artery disease reports a majority of the cases to be type A. In the one study that showed a majority of type O, the authors retracted their results when upon further examination it was found that the type A's that should have been in the heart disease group were already dead.

A few years back Greg Kelly and I compiled all the studies we could find that looked at heart disease and blood type and calculated the total relative risk (RR) of getting heart disease by simply being type A. The RR was between 1.8 and 1.9, which means that your risk of heart disease simply by being type A was about double (180%-190%) that of those who were not type A.

Some interesting comparisions:

  • RR of substantially elevated cholesterol and heart/artery disease: 2.25
  • RR of substantially elevated homecysteine and heart/artery disease: 1.6-1.7
  • RR of substantially elevated C-reactive protein and heart/artery disease: 1.8

Feel free to draw your own conclusions..

Type A also get a lot more 'A-like' cancers. Yet the Weston Price website is apoplectic about soy.  Yet, not only does soy  help  the type A immune system locate A-like cancers, but soy is one of the foods that has repeatedly been shown to reduce the endothelial damage that type A is so prone to. High fat diets, on the other hand, increase endothelial damage.

A few years ago, a study came out that claimed that a link was discovered between Japanese men who ate soy and Alzheimers, remember? Well, that was taken up by the Weston Price people as if the Holy Grail had been found. Five years later and nobody has yet been able to come close to duplicating this one study, and now even the original author has doubts about its validity. That did not stop hundres of newspapers to run articles with headline like 'Will Soy Make You Stoopid.'

Then there was the tempest about soy and the thyroid. Soy does interact with thyroid function, in a raw form, in huge doses, in rats. Rat thyroid are glycosylated differently than human thyroids. In the case of rats, the lectin in soy did react with the thyroid. But no normal human is going to eat five pounds of raw soy beans daily, and even if they did, the evidence suggests that it would still only bother you if you had a transplanted rat thyroid in you.

However, there was one covert action on the part of the Price Pottenger people that did give me an insight into their nobility, or perhaps, lack of it. In a silly review of Eat Right For Your Type they went on and on about how lectins were nothing to worry about; just use their gelatin broth and all will be well.  Yet, when they wrote about the soy/thyroid thing, they took great pains to alert the reader to the 'great dangers' of the 'dangerous lectins and hemmagglutins in soy.'

Like any one-size fits all diet, which tries to describe the elephant from one vantage point, it can have some applicability, and in the case of the Weston Price website, it is decent information for type Os and some non-secretors of other blood types, but it's over-extrapolated and offered equally to everyone else.

However, it would seem (unless one is completely paranoid) that somebody must be getting the heart attacks and cancers that are fat-related and populate the medical literature.

Frankly, there are certain oils, such as coconut and palm, that I just cannot proclaim to be 'safe' for 'everybody'.

Finally, you can't just evaluate a food based on how it made you feel in the last half hour. Yes, there are allergies and intolerances, but often deeper knowledge tells us that there are sometimes more important things than subjective feelings. Flossing my teeth is not high up on the list of things that make me feel great. But deeper knowledge tells me that there is an advantage to doing it in the long term.

Maybe this seems disparaging, but they have some real questions to answer. The genomic revolution (and common sense) seem to indicate  that no one diet will work satisfactorily in all people.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is always something to learn. This one is just mine.


Maybe we can archive this post/thread so I don't have to repost it again.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

Revision History (1 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 10:27pm
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 3 - 10
ISA-MANUELA
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 9:45pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
ooo Gandalf... that wasnt' that wise.... normally we get named: *soybashers* .....


and thanks Peter for your kind explanation  what I cant' understand until now that mostly the A secretors are +++ with the tests and some A nonnies just as you named it neutral or even completely
negative results depends on if they are A1 or A2?
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 4 - 10
HealthNut
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Just when you think you found something good. I have been eating soy for some time now since I am unable to eat dairy. I feel like I go thru life always looking for good food to be healthier and feel better and promote excellent health, then, a report comes out and leaves me confused again. I just keep on trying and looking and spending on foods that I can eat and my body can tolerate. THanks for sharing the report. I am due to have a blood test soon because my cholestorel runs a little high. Since I am cutting out red meat, pork, dairy(now soy) I am hoping it will be lower this time.
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 5 - 10
Carol the Dabbler
Sunday, January 15, 2006, 11:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Gluten-Free Raw-Food Vegan
Kyosha Nim
Columnists and Bloggers
Posts: 2,774
Gender: Female
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 69
HealthNut -- Dr. D is saying that soy is good for A's, and that fats are bad (not vice-versa).

This does puzzle me, however, since I feel really yucky (not just "half an hour later," but all the time) if I eat significant amounts of soy.  And the BTD recommends a lot of high-fat foods for A's, including full-fat yogurt, nuts and nut butters, olive oil, eggs, and salmon.  I don't think it would be possible to eat even a moderately low-fat diet (less than 20% of calories from fat) while following the BTD guidelines for A's.


Carol

A+ nonnie married to an A+ secretor

Revision History (2 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 11:35pm
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Sunday, January 15, 2006, 11:32pm
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 6 - 10
Sandra_Aruba
Monday, January 16, 2006, 12:12am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Guest User
Quoted from Carol_the_Dabbler
HealthNut -- Dr. D is saying that soy is good for A's, and that fats are bad (not vice-versa).

This does puzzle me, however, since I feel really yucky (not just "half an hour later," but all the time) if I eat significant amounts of soy. And the BTD recommends a lot of high-fat foods for A's, including full-fat yogurt, nuts and nut butters, olive oil, eggs, and salmon. I don't think it would be possible to eat even a moderately low-fat diet (less than 20% of calories from fat) while following the BTD guidelines for A's.


Well first of all, I eat soy milk with my breakfast and I use a light version that has less fat. I feel great doing so. Not sluggish at all. I guess that's the individuality we all have. If it doesn't work for you Carol, then don't use soy. There is always rice milk, right?
At first I was like health nut and thought that Soy was indeed bad for you until I read Dr. D's post very carefully and was glad to read that soy is indeed good for you.

Second, when Dr. D. says fats, I think he is talking about the bad fats. Not the good ones, especially when you see that walnut oil and olive oil are beneficial for both types A. From what I understand the oils found in Salmon are good for you as well.

Revision History (1 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Monday, January 16, 2006, 12:14am
Logged
E-mail E-mail Reply: 7 - 10
Lola
Monday, January 16, 2006, 1:09am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

GT1; L (a-b-); (se); PROP-T; NN
Sa Bon Nim
Admin & Columnist
Posts: 51,006
Gender: Female
Location: ''eternal spring'' Cuernavaca - Mex.
Age: 57
As do better with less fat, Laura.

where does it say, As should eat full fat dairy, etc?


Os do best with the good fat issue, but even so, there are frequency guidelines, also.

not to forget, Bs of course, those do fine with their full spectrum dairy! )


''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98
DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ISTJ
The harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

Revision History (1 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Monday, January 16, 2006, 1:10am
Logged
Private Message Private message YIM YIM Reply: 8 - 10
sue_ab
Monday, January 16, 2006, 3:02am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Warrior
Kyosha Nim
Posts: 990
Location: NW Tasmania, Australia
Thank you for the informative post Dr. D.

I will make this a sticky and lock the thread so that it can be left for everyone to read.

Sue.


BTD'ing for life since 2000
Logged Offline
Private Message Private message Reply: 9 - 10
Dr. D
Monday, January 16, 2006, 11:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Peter D'Adamo
Kwan Jhang Nim
Posts: 4,135
Gender: Male
Location: Connecticut
Age: 58
Quoted Text
Dr. D is saying that soy is good for A's, and that fats are bad (not vice-versa).


Not that simple:


  • Not talking about all fats and oils. More specifically, saturated fats (such as palm and coconut oil) are not universally great for everyone.
  • Soy is beneficial for healthy type A secretors, and for all type A's under certain disease conditions.


A whole system is a living system is a learning system.’ -Stewart Brand

Revision History (1 edits)
Alan_Goldenberg  -  Monday, January 16, 2006, 11:49am
Logged
Site Site Private Message Private message Reply: 10 - 10
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
Print Print Thread

BTD Forums    Diet and Nutrition    Eat Right 4 Your Type  ›  Soy Alert ?!

Thread Rating

There have been 3 votes for this thread.